Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?


The wind has changed, 6 years ago I was 100% in the EV camp.

Since then I became very skeptical.

Again, I'm being Devil's Advocate... but it doesn't matter. Manufacturers had to react to what they thought legislation would be. Sure, they could also bet against those regulatory limits coming in to force, but that's a massive gamble. A Democrat administration in the US, the EU's forthcoming plans, and the mandatory push to EV in China would make not focusing efforts on EV powertrains a significant risk. If you know something is going to be outlawed, why would you invest in it?

The current US administration back-pedalling on consumption/emissions targets may well make the US a fertile market for more cost effective, higher profit margin purely ICE vehicles. If the EU were to abandon it's targets, the same would happen here - but that's probably a fever dream. We'll get an extra 10 years of Hybrids, and as the POV spec models from any given manufacturer become more prolific, the 6's and 8'd will follow for the lucky few...
 
The EU is very corrupt, and everybody knows this.

I still think that the car companies are behind the EV mandate, because they think, they might make more money with it.

Especially VW forced it, to clean their image of the Diesel Scam.
 
Again, I'm being Devil's Advocate... but it doesn't matter. Manufacturers had to react to what they thought legislation would be. Sure, they could also bet against those regulatory limits coming in to force, but that's a massive gamble. A Democrat administration in the US, the EU's forthcoming plans, and the mandatory push to EV in China would make not focusing efforts on EV powertrains a significant risk. If you know something is going to be outlawed, why would you invest in it?

The current US administration back-pedalling on consumption/emissions targets may well make the US a fertile market for more cost effective, higher profit margin purely ICE vehicles. If the EU were to abandon it's targets, the same would happen here - but that's probably a fever dream. We'll get an extra 10 years of Hybrids, and as the POV spec models from any given manufacturer become more prolific, the 6's and 8'd will follow for the lucky few...
That being the case, the B48 loan deal might very well be a stop-gap solution until the landscape has settled. And honestly, why not. This partnership makes more sense than partnering with say... Renault.
 
The wind has changed, 6 years ago I was 100% in the EV camp.

Since then I became very skeptical.

I continue to remain there, although the generally anticipated modi operandi of the Eurocrats in Brussels and selected state EU bureaucracies appear to have done their very best in order to stifle a sustainable transition. Certainly they are not solely to blame. The nature of the electric mobility beast is characterized by a neck-snapping pace of innovation, which in turn ushers rapid obsolescence. And manufacturers here in Europe have yet to introduce more attractive ownership/leasing/rental models for private customers. Promised purchase price reductions due to enhanced "BEV characteristic economy of scales" hasn't happened. Quite the contrary actually. That pisses potential customers off. Personally, I remain confident that BEVs will become increasingly popular...sometime considerably further down the road than expected though. The plateau of innovation and progress in the field has yet to be reached. And interim solutions such as more progressive hybrid/REEV powertrains will continue to play a crucial role.
 
Perhaps then they can update their nearly new M254 and OM654 motors to be Euro7 compliant, rather than develop brand new motors. I do understand what you mean though. I suppose their initial intention was to have the BEVs replace the 4 cylinder models at the low end, and sit parallel to the I6 and V8s remaining on the higher trim levels.

Though given that they went through the trouble to make a hyper-efficient 1.5L M252, they should have made sure it was flexible enough to have a variety of applications.

Or I guess, given that its part of a modular family of engines, make a 1.8L 5 cylinder version or a 2.25L 6 cylinder LOL. Otherwise, why call it a family?
m254 and om654 euro7 compatible engines.
 
Maybe Serpens, klier or other members who are familiar with ICE technology can comment on that articel?


Installing a BMW 4-cylinder engine in the inventor of the automobile? So far, Mercedes engines have caused a sensation (in a positive sense) in long-term tests (C 180 W204) at around 600,000 km and the A-Class W176 at around 400,000 km. There has been no such test with a BMW.

The question that arises is the actual reason. At Mercedes, all engines are currently brand new (except for the new V8 coming soon).

The M252 was developed by Mercedes and is produced by Aurobay in China. It is used in all MMA hybrid derivatives and is said to be so efficient that customers in the MMA models (CLA, GLA, GLB) will not miss diesel (according to Mercedes-Benz).

The M254 4-cylinder gasoline engine for the C-Class, E-Class, GLC, and GLE (in America and China) dates from 2020. It has therefore only been on the market for five years.

The OM654 was introduced with the W213 in 2016 and was fundamentally redesigned (OM654M) with the introduction of the new C-Class W206 in 2021.

The M256M and OM656M R6 gasoline and diesel engines are also top-of-the-line (state-of-the-art) power units.

From a technical point of view, it is therefore surprising to switch to a BMW engine. The Mercedes engines have been developed, and the development costs have probably not yet been completely written off. What would be the advantage?

The situation is different at BMW. Their gasoline 4-cylinder B48 engine dates back to 2014, making it significantly older than Mercedes' engine. BMW has always stated that it intends to develop a new engine family because it wants to continue using combustion engines. The question is whether this is a nice story or whether they were required by law to develop a new family, as the B48, which is over 10 years old, might not have easily met the EU7 standard.

On the other hand, BMW is set to introduce prechamber ignition in its new generation of engines. Mercedes has been familiar with this technology for a long time (since 2014), but only in its highly successful Formula 1 engines. There, it has helped the team win numerous world championship titles. While other manufacturers had to lift and coast, Mercedes drivers were able to stay on the gas and fully exploit the power, as the maximum fuel limit was 100 kg per race (efficient and powerful engines therefore had advantages).

Mercedes not only wants to source BMW's 4-cylinder engines from the Steyr plant in Austria, but also to build a joint engine plant in the US. In Tuscaloosa, GLC models will be manufactured alongside the GLS and GLE from 2027 with the GLC facelift. This means that one of the main engines will be the 4-cylinder gasoline engine (it is also sold in the US in the GLE 350). BMW also produces the X3, X5, and X7 in the US. Not only are cars exported to the US subject to 15% punitive tariffs, but so are parts delivered there (in this case, powertrains). Mercedes already had a cooperation with Nissan/Infiniti here. The M264 for Tuscaloosa was produced in their engine plant there.

The basic idea behind sharing fixed costs is easy to understand. But Mercedes actually spent these fixed costs (development costs for the brand-new Fame engine family) just a few years ago. Therefore, this step does not make sense at the current stage of the lifecycle for the current engines.

The cooperation between Mercedes and BMW is to be announced in the next 8 weeks (if the talks are successful). Normally, the IAA is always a good place to make such announcements.
 
Maybe Serpens, klier or other members who are familiar with ICE technology can comment on that articel?


Installing a BMW 4-cylinder engine in the inventor of the automobile? So far, Mercedes engines have caused a sensation (in a positive sense) in long-term tests (C 180 W204) at around 600,000 km and the A-Class W176 at around 400,000 km. There has been no such test with a BMW.

The question that arises is the actual reason. At Mercedes, all engines are currently brand new (except for the new V8 coming soon).

The M252 was developed by Mercedes and is produced by Aurobay in China. It is used in all MMA hybrid derivatives and is said to be so efficient that customers in the MMA models (CLA, GLA, GLB) will not miss diesel (according to Mercedes-Benz).

The M254 4-cylinder gasoline engine for the C-Class, E-Class, GLC, and GLE (in America and China) dates from 2020. It has therefore only been on the market for five years.

The OM654 was introduced with the W213 in 2016 and was fundamentally redesigned (OM654M) with the introduction of the new C-Class W206 in 2021.

The M256M and OM656M R6 gasoline and diesel engines are also top-of-the-line (state-of-the-art) power units.

From a technical point of view, it is therefore surprising to switch to a BMW engine. The Mercedes engines have been developed, and the development costs have probably not yet been completely written off. What would be the advantage?

The situation is different at BMW. Their gasoline 4-cylinder B48 engine dates back to 2014, making it significantly older than Mercedes' engine. BMW has always stated that it intends to develop a new engine family because it wants to continue using combustion engines. The question is whether this is a nice story or whether they were required by law to develop a new family, as the B48, which is over 10 years old, might not have easily met the EU7 standard.

On the other hand, BMW is set to introduce prechamber ignition in its new generation of engines. Mercedes has been familiar with this technology for a long time (since 2014), but only in its highly successful Formula 1 engines. There, it has helped the team win numerous world championship titles. While other manufacturers had to lift and coast, Mercedes drivers were able to stay on the gas and fully exploit the power, as the maximum fuel limit was 100 kg per race (efficient and powerful engines therefore had advantages).

Mercedes not only wants to source BMW's 4-cylinder engines from the Steyr plant in Austria, but also to build a joint engine plant in the US. In Tuscaloosa, GLC models will be manufactured alongside the GLS and GLE from 2027 with the GLC facelift. This means that one of the main engines will be the 4-cylinder gasoline engine (it is also sold in the US in the GLE 350). BMW also produces the X3, X5, and X7 in the US. Not only are cars exported to the US subject to 15% punitive tariffs, but so are parts delivered there (in this case, powertrains). Mercedes already had a cooperation with Nissan/Infiniti here. The M264 for Tuscaloosa was produced in their engine plant there.

The basic idea behind sharing fixed costs is easy to understand. But Mercedes actually spent these fixed costs (development costs for the brand-new Fame engine family) just a few years ago. Therefore, this step does not make sense at the current stage of the lifecycle for the current engines.

The cooperation between Mercedes and BMW is to be announced in the next 8 weeks (if the talks are successful). Normally, the IAA is always a good place to make such announcements.
As I mentioned before, the Mercedes engine family is newer than BMW's. The problem may stem from the M252 to be used in the new MMA models. First, this engine will be manufactured in China, and second, there will be no phev version. The M260 used in the current A-Class may not be Euro7 compliant either. The current 4-cylinder engines, the M254 and OM654M, are brand new units. They have no issues with Euro7. I'm very curious about the reason for this move.
 
Then what's the point? Is it just Tariff dodging for the USA?
Also a way to gain a better engine for MB's clients without having to invest in one. M254 is known to be more unrefined than the BMW and VAG alternatives.

So, being practical, it's something good for a prospective MB buyer.
 
If we compare the Torque of the B48 and M254, we can see that the BMW is far superior.

Let’s take the 330i and the C300, BMW 245PS from 4500-6500rpm and 400Nm from 1600-4000rpm, the C300 has 258PS at 5800rpm but 400Nm from 2000-3200rpm.

The BMW is also much smoother.
 
If we compare the Torque of the B48 and M254, we can see that the BMW is far superior.

Let’s take the 330i and the C300, BMW 245PS from 4500-6500rpm and 400Nm from 1600-4000rpm, the C300 has 258PS at 5800rpm but 400Nm from 2000-3200rpm.

The BMW is also much smoother.
I just don't think there is a single MB engine that is superior to the equivalent BMW engine currently.
 
I disagree, the M177 is.

The S58 ist better than the M256, the B58 is on par.

The Diesel engines are very close.
The OM656 is a pretty amazing engine tbh. Manages a similar amount of power and torque as the quad turbo B57.

I agree that the M176/7/8 is a pretty amazing engine design. Though it's not used by Mercedes that much these days, the M279 is also quite remarkable despite being such a fundamentally old design. It's also extremely reliable.

The M256 is great, but god I would love for AMG to make a proper performance inline 6 to compete against the S58.

The M139 is better than the B48, but they're also not really comparable, and it's an AMG only motor. There's no equivalent S48.
But yeah the B48 is much better than the M254, which needs some improvement.
 
EQS
neue-bilder-vom-eqs-suv-facelift-2026-236972.webp
neue-bilder-vom-eqs-suv-facelift-2026-236970.webp
 
The OM656 is a pretty amazing engine tbh. Manages a similar amount of power and torque as the quad turbo B57.

I agree that the M176/7/8 is a pretty amazing engine design. Though it's not used by Mercedes that much these days, the M279 is also quite remarkable despite being such a fundamentally old design. It's also extremely reliable.

The M256 is great, but god I would love for AMG to make a proper performance inline 6 to compete against the S58.

The M139 is better than the B48, but they're also not really comparable, and it's an AMG only motor. There's no equivalent S48.
But yeah the B48 is much better than the M254, which needs some improvement.
I agree.(y)

The M139 feels special.

I would love to Testdrive the Emira with the AMG engine. Because I think that’s a car in which this engine really shines.
 

Mercedes-Benz

Mercedes-Benz Group AG is headquartered in Stuttgart, Germany. Established in 1926, Mercedes-Benz Group produces consumer luxury vehicles and light commercial vehicles badged as Mercedes-Benz, Mercedes-AMG, and Mercedes-Maybach. Its origin lies in Daimler-Motoren-Gesellschaft's 1901 Mercedes and Carl Benz's 1886 Benz Patent-Motorwagen, which is widely regarded as the first internal combustion engine in a self-propelled automobile. The slogan for the brand is "the best or nothing".

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