Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?

[Fastpaddy]

The GLC, X3 and Q5 have been the bread and butter for many years now. They have displaced the 3, C and A4. At one point, the Q5 accounted for 25% of Audi's global sales.

Audi sales in the US are shit right now.

The q3 shitbox is their bestseller LOL

 

[Centurion]

It will be sad when the GLE is replaced with a car that has the same interior as all other mercs.

 

[Merc1]

Mercedes have the brand cache to move into proper luxury, but they would in turn become a smaller business overall. Higher margin yes, but smaller volume.

Their cars are already barely obtainable, but they would move into pure unobtainium if they moved up any further. The whole point of Mercedes was attainable luxury. Yeah they had the enormous ultra-luxury 560SE and 600SLs, but for each of those they also had 190E or 240D which sold in large numbers.

The issue with the SL, is that its just not that great of a product for what it is. The GT, which shares the same underpinnings is outselling it by a ridiculous margin. The SL in general has the baggage of being seen as an old-man car for the better part of 40 years. Long gone are the days of the racing pedigree from the 300SL, which was adopted into the SLS and now the GT.
Yeah they share the same architecture, but the layman doesn't know or care. They associate with the brand, and the SL brand is past its prime. They'd need to make something on the level of a 911 spyder to even stand a chance of reinvigorating that name plate, and in the current regulatory environment, that's basically impossible.

Attainable luxury was not the point of Mercedes. That is what the Asians luxury brands are for. A lot of Mercedes’ appeal came from stupid expensive cars that only a few could afford even during the 190E and 240D days. A 190E was quite expensive for what it was.

M

 

[Rolf]

Attainable luxury was not the point of Mercedes. That is what the Asians luxury brands are for. A lot of Mercedes’ appeal came from stupid expensive cars that only a few could afford even during the 190E and 240D days. A 190E was quite expensive for what it was.

M

The Mercedes cars from the 70's/80s especially the 190 range and W123/W124 ranges were vastly more expensive than rivals and were poorly equipped in comparison, they were not high value for your buck cars. But where they stood out was their unbeatable engineering, build quality, longevity, refinement and chassis behavior which no rivals except for BMW could match. But nowadays there are much cheaper cars that are approaching Mercedes levels of build and not that far behind in refinement, the USP of Mercedes is slowly been eroded away.

 

[Serpens]

Good luck trying to recreate that brand strategy nowadays. There's a reason Rolls Royce is the only one still in that position. Everyone else has had to go far down market.

 

[GTA45E]

Mercedes have the brand cache to move into proper luxury, but they would in turn become a smaller business overall. Higher margin yes, but smaller volume.

Their cars are already barely obtainable, but they would move into pure unobtainium if they moved up any further. The whole point of Mercedes was attainable luxury. Yeah they had the enormous ultra-luxury 560SE and 600SLs, but for each of those they also had 190E or 240D which sold in large numbers.

The issue with the SL, is that its just not that great of a product for what it is. The GT, which shares the same underpinnings is outselling it by a ridiculous margin. The SL in general has the baggage of being seen as an old-man car for the better part of 40 years. Long gone are the days of the racing pedigree from the 300SL, which was adopted into the SLS and now the GT.
Yeah they share the same architecture, but the layman doesn't know or care. They associate with the brand, and the SL brand is past its prime. They'd need to make something on the level of a 911 spyder to even stand a chance of reinvigorating that name plate, and in the current regulatory environment, that's basically impossible.

The "old-man" sentiment is simply outdated and needs to be put to bed with this latest version.
The SL63 is a capable performance car that puts out numbers that are close to identical with its GT brother. If the SL is not that great of a product, than neither is the GT. Both share the same under-pinnings as you indicated.
The number on the sales chart look good for the GT but the GT comes in a 4-door Coupe variant. The chart is probably lumping the two together, therefore inflating the numbers. If the chart broke the numbers down it would look quite different for the 2-door GT. The 4-Door GT is selling well.

I have seen numerous charts indicating that sales of convertibles, (no matter the price) have dropped across the board in the US since 2004-05.
There might be a few exceptions but droptop sales are not that great to begin right now, so with that taken into consideration, the SL is probably doing better than expected. These are older charts and articles but I believe still apply today.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/24/convertible-sales-fall-in-us-amid-popularity-of-evs-suvs.html

 

[Fastpaddy]

Mercedes have the brand cache to move into proper luxury, but they would in turn become a smaller business overall. Higher margin yes, but smaller volume.

Their cars are already barely obtainable, but they would move into pure unobtainium if they moved up any further. The whole point of Mercedes was attainable luxury. Yeah they had the enormous ultra-luxury 560SE and 600SLs, but for each of those they also had 190E or 240D which sold in large numbers.

The issue with the SL, is that its just not that great of a product for what it is. The GT, which shares the same underpinnings is outselling it by a ridiculous margin. The SL in general has the baggage of being seen as an old-man car for the better part of 40 years. Long gone are the days of the racing pedigree from the 300SL, which was adopted into the SLS and now the GT.
Yeah they share the same architecture, but the layman doesn't know or care. They associate with the brand, and the SL brand is past its prime. They'd need to make something on the level of a 911 spyder to even stand a chance of reinvigorating that name plate, and in the current regulatory environment, that's basically impossible.

They said they continue with the loss making SL because of old m

The "old-man" sentiment is simply outdated and needs to be put to bed with this latest version.
The SL63 is a capable performance car that puts out numbers that are close to identical with its GT brother. If the SL is not that great of a product, than neither is the GT. Both share the same under-pinnings as you indicated.
The number on the sales chart look good for the GT but the GT comes in a 4-door Coupe variant. The chart is probably lumping the two together, therefore inflating the numbers. If the chart broke the numbers down it would look quite different for the 2-door GT. The 4-Door GT is selling well.

I have seen numerous charts indicating that sales of convertibles, (no matter the price) have dropped across the board in the US since 2004-05.
There might be a few exceptions but droptop sales are not that great to begin right now, so with that taken into consideration, the SL is probably doing better than expected. These are older charts and articles but I believe still apply today.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/24/convertible-sales-fall-in-us-amid-popularity-of-evs-suvs.html

No one rates the new gt compared to the old GT when it comes to driving ability, fun and emotiveness.

But its more practical. LOL

 

[Ghost1]

I hope the MB will get rid of the stupid looking driver’s iPad style screen that is glued to the panel.

 

[Merc1]

The Mercedes cars from the 70's/80s especially the 190 range and W123/W124 ranges were vastly more expensive than rivals and were poorly equipped in comparison, they were not high value for your buck cars. But where they stood out was their unbeatable engineering, build quality, longevity, refinement and chassis behavior which no rivals except for BMW could match. But nowadays there are much cheaper cars that are approaching Mercedes levels of build and not that far behind in refinement, the USP of Mercedes is slowly been eroded away.

Correct. The 300E that introduced me to the brand was very spartan compared to the Cadillacs and Lincoln's I was raised around, but that 300E drove like nothing else and it felt like a rolling bank vault and when you really examined it close up that build was stupendous. Everything was solid and just unlike any car I had ever been around. Every button clicked, when the windows rolled up or when you closed the door, you felt like you being sealed in a chamber, with a thunk or thud. Classic Mercedes.

M

 

[Luca]

 

[Centurion]

ahh what a beauty, legible and userfriendly instrument cluster.

 

[Luca]

@Centurion, Yes but already seen and reviewed, we need to have other ideas especially on models coming out soon

 

[Fastpaddy]

Just looked up the baby g wagon idea from Ola.

What a dumb move.

Kill the desirability of the OG G wagon in one move.

People like that box on wheels so much partly because of exclusivity.

Make a baby version of it for the mass market and the wealthier clientele will feel their product is now less special.

These people just dont think things through.

And so much for going upmarket.

They killed the SL desirability after years of dumb moves, they managed it with the sls and OG amg GT, and now they will kill the desirability of their last true legacy model, the g wagon

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Just looked up the baby g wagon idea from Ola.

What a dumb move.

Kill the desirability of the OG G wagon in one move.

People like that box on wheels so much partly because of exclusivity.

Make a baby version of it for the mass market and the wealthier clientele will feel their product is now less special.

These people just dont think things through.

And so much for going upmarket.

They killed the SL desirability after years of dumb moves, they managed it with the sls and OG amg GT, and now they will kill the desirability of their last true legacy model, the g wagon

Given how well the GT seems to be selling, has its desirability really been killed?

I can see your point about making the original G less exclusive, but you could argue that about all the different Range Rover models that have been introduced. Had that killed the Range Rover desirability?
Mmm not really.

The Baby G will also still probably be alarmingly expensive, just smaller than the Big G. And at the end of the day, people with the Big G still have the Big G.

 

[Merc1]

Yeah the sky is not falling.

M

 

[Pagani]

I feel what's killing the SL is the sticker price, not its lack of desirability - desirability per dollar, I guess. I know in inflation terms, its price has not gone up since the 90s, but damn, the issue is the actual inflation. To pay a two handle for an SL is just bonkers.

 

[Merc1]

I agree. It would sell better in the $110-160K range imo. The SL63 EP can be 200K as they won’t sell many anyway. Kill the SL43 and replace it with a proper SL53 I6.

M

 

[GTA45E]

The 53 models are stepchild AMG products of Mercedes.
The SL and GT are the only true thoroughbred AMG cars in the lineup.
This is probably the reason no modified Mercedes engines are used in them.

 

[Fastpaddy]

The SL used to be unique in looks. Look at the SL of the 90’s and earlier, and look at the SL of today.

Todays SL could literally be any sportcar.

Back in the day if you turned up in a SL, it mean something, today, no one bats an eye lid.

Kids had SL’s up on their wall, and financial traders would splurge their bonus on one.

No ones doing that anymore and even Mercedes themselves have said it doesnt sell like it used to, but they only carry on that model because its meant to be a legacy line halo model.

As for the baby G, it will most definitely have negative connotations for the brand.

You cannot on one hand say oh the A class etc is detrimental to the brand image and then basically go ahead and make a cheap entry level Benz that looks like a shrunken g-wagen bought by the wannabes that cannot afford the real thing.

 

[Centurion]

Kids had SL’s up on their wall, and financial traders would splurge their bonus on one.

Hollywood perpetuated a convertible as a sign of success, freedom, adventure and excitement. Many iconic movies featured a convertible either in the introor ending or a movie.

Buying a red convertible was exciting as getting a mistress during a midlife crisis.