HighestOfHigh
Cornering Kingpin
- http://www.autobild.de/artikel/test-lexus-ls-600h-mercedes-s-400-hybrid_906122.html
Vs Mercedes-Benz S400 vs. Lexus LS600h Hybrid Battle
- Thread starter HighestOfHigh
- Start date
- http://www.autobild.de/artikel/test-lexus-ls-600h-mercedes-s-400-hybrid_906122.html
HighestOfHigh
Cornering Kingpin
Both look good, but nothing like the S.
HighestOfHigh
Cornering Kingpin
I love Toyota's Hybrid "battery monitor" that appears on the navigaton screen, but the Mercedes looks so much more sophisticated.
HighestOfHigh
Cornering Kingpin
Well this is the translated article -
which was in the upper long as the domain of Lexus. Jetzt endlich tritt auch Marktführer Mercedes mit dem S 400 Hybrid auf die Verbrauchs- und Abgasbremse. Now at last also occurs leader Mercedes with the S 400 hybrid on fuel consumption and exhaust brake. Wir haben mit den zwei umweltfreundlichsten Nobelautos der Welt eine fast CO 2 -neutrale Landpartie unternommen. We worked with two Nobel environmentally friendly cars of the world an almost CO 2-neutral country to batch. Obwohl beide Fünf-Meter-Schiffe ähnliche Ziele verfolgen, birgt der technische Ansatz weniger Gemeinsamkeiten als erwartet. Although both five-meter vessels similar objectives, the technical approach has less in common than expected. Die geliftete S-Klasse setzt auf einen V6-Benziner, Mildhybrid und viele kleine Spartricks, der LS 600h dagegen auf V8, Vollhybrid und satten Luxus. The geLIFTet S-Class uses a V6 petrol engine, and many small Mildhybrid saving tricks, the LS 600h opposed to V8, full and luscious luxury. Anders gesagt: Wo Hybrid draufsteht, ist nicht immer nur Downsizing und Demut drin. In other words: Where hybrid thing, is not just downsizing and humility there. Den Beweis dafür liefert der Lexus , dessen V8 bei Bedarf so gut geht wie ein V12, der aber beim Gasstreicheln so wenig verbraucht wie ein V6. The evidence provided by the Lexus, whose V8 when needed as well is like a V12, but when Gasstreicheln consumes as little as a V6. So brav und bieder der Lexus zuerst wirken mag – wenn der Fahrer den Bleifuß senkt, erinnert die Beschleunigung an den Turbo-Effekt guter Sportwagen . So brave and honest of the first act Lexus mag - when the driver lowers the Bleifuß remembers the acceleration of the turbo-effect of good sports.
Eco-wonders if the two best cars in city traffic
Der Sechszylinder im S 400 fühlt sich immer rauer und unkultivierter an, dafür schluckt er bei zurückhaltender Fahrweise kaum mehr als manche Vierzylinder. The six-cylinder in the S 400 always feels rough and uncultured, it swallows that he restrained driving little more than some four-cylinder. Der Mercedes addiert seine 20 Elektro-PS nur im unteren Geschwindigkeitsbereich zu den 279-Basis-PS des 3,5-Liter-V6. The Mercedes added his 20-horsepower electric only in the lower speed range of the base 279-horsepower of the 3.5-liter V6. Von dieser defensiven Auslegung profitiert natürlich der Verbrauch, der bei unserer ersten Ausfahrt laut Bordcomputer zwischen 9,7 und 11,2 Litern schwankt. From this defensive interpretation of the consumption benefits of course, at the first exit, according to our on-board computer from 9.7 to 11.2 liters fluctuates. Der Lexus begnügt sich theoretisch mit 9,3 Litern, doch wenn die 445 PS öfter abgerufen werden, schluckt er 11,3 bis 15,1 Liter. The Lexus is satisfied with 9.3 liters in theory, but if the 445 hp are retrieved more often, he swallows from 11.3 to 15.1 liters. Und die Skala ist dann wohl aus Scham tiefrot eingefärbt. And the scale is probably out of shame dyed deep. Kleine Öko-Wunder vollbringen beide Autos bestenfalls im Stadtverkehr, wo die Werksangaben von 11,3 Litern (LS 600h) und 10,9 Litern (S 400) der Nachprüfung standhielten. Small eco-wonders if the two best cars in city traffic, where the factory figures of 11.3 liters (LS 600h) and 10.9 liters (S 400) to review stand.
The hybrid is equal to the character of the S 400
Gewöhnungsbedürftig: Die Bremse des S 400 erscheint trotz des längeren Wegs und höheren Pedaldrucks seltsam gefühllos. Gewöhnungsbedürftig: The brake seems the S 400 in spite of the longer path and higher pedal pressure strangely unfeeling. Der alternative Antrieb passt gut zum souveränen Charakter des Big Benz, der lieber gleitet als hetzt. The alternate drive fits in well with the sovereign character of the big Benz, who glides rather than rush. Nach dem Motor-Aus beim Ampelstopp vermittelt das zusätzliche Anfahr-Drehmoment von 160 Nm zwar einen Extrakick beim Ampelstart, doch in der Folge versickert ein Teil der Energieströme zumindest subjektiv im Labyrinth der Technik. After the engine off at stop lights provides additional starting torque of 160 Nm is an extra kick at the start lights, but subsequently disappeared in a part of the energy flows, at least subjectively in the labyrinth of technology. Besonders gewöhnungsbedürftig wirkt die Bremse, die trotz längeren Wegs und höheren Pedaldrucks seltsam gefühllos erscheint. Especially getting used to, the brake, despite the longer path and higher pedal pressure seems strangely insensitive. Dafür sorgt die Elektronik während der Beschleunigungsphase für nahtlose Übergänge und für ein sanftes Ein- und Ausblenden des E-Werks. This is ensured by the electronics during the acceleration phase for seamless transitions and a smooth entry and hide the e-book.
The LS 600h is the interplay of forces directly experience, even with the accelerator and brake located between cause and effect is just a shock eyelashes. Wer hätte das gedacht? Who would have thought? Der Lexus trifft ins Herz, der Mercedes beglückt den Verstand. The Lexus hits the heart of the Mercedes happy mind. Eindeutig fällt der Preisvergleich aus: Der S 400 Hybrid kostet 9163 Euro mehr als der S 350 Benziner, der kaum langsamer ist. Clearly, the price of the S 400 hybrid will cost 9163 euros more than the S 350 petrol engine, which is hardly slower. Und 12.316 Euro mehr als der S 350 CDI mit dem saftigen Diesel, der laut Werk 7,6 Liter verbraucht. And 12,316 euros more than the S 350 CDI diesel with a juicy, according to plant consumes 7.6 liters. Der Hybrid wird einen schweren Stand haben. The hybrid will have a difficult position
Mild or full hybrid? Der große Unterschied The big difference
Als erstes Serienauto vertraut der S400 Hybrid auf besonders leistungsfähige Lithium-Ionen-Akkus, die Toyota für noch nicht serienreif hält. The first series of car trusts S400 hybrid to particularly efficient lithium-ion batteries, which Toyota does not even hold for production. Der S-Klasse-Hybrid packt den 20-PS-Elektromotor zwischen V6-Benziner und die Siebenstufenautomatik – deshalb sind Schaltrucke zu spüren. The S-Class hybrid packs a 20-horsepower electric motor between the V6 petrol engine and the seven-stage automatic - why sound truck to be felt. Auch der Lexus besitzt ein Stopp-Start-Modul und ein System zur Bremsenergie-Rückgewinnung. Also, the Lexus has a stop-start engine and a system for braking energy recovery. Sein Elektromotor leistet 224 PS und 300 Nm – damit kann man auf kurzen Strecken auch rein elektrisch fahren. Its electric motor makes 224 hp and 300 Nm - so you can even over short distances purely electric drive. Die Nickel-Metallhybdrid-Batterien des Lexus-V8 sind in puncto Energiedichte, Wirkungsgrad, Gewicht und Bauraum der Mercedes-Lösung unterlegen. The nickel-Metallhybdrid batteries Lexus V8 in terms of energy density, efficiency, weight and space of the Mercedes-inferior solution. Zu den Besonderheiten des LS gehören die stufenlos variable Übersetzung des Automatikgetriebes und der permanente Allradantrieb . Among the special features of the LS include the translation of the infinitely variable automatic transmission and permanent four-wheel drive.
- Test Lexus LS 600h/Mercedes S 400 Hybrid - Luxus mit weißer Weste - Greencars - autobild.de
which was in the upper long as the domain of Lexus. Jetzt endlich tritt auch Marktführer Mercedes mit dem S 400 Hybrid auf die Verbrauchs- und Abgasbremse. Now at last also occurs leader Mercedes with the S 400 hybrid on fuel consumption and exhaust brake. Wir haben mit den zwei umweltfreundlichsten Nobelautos der Welt eine fast CO 2 -neutrale Landpartie unternommen. We worked with two Nobel environmentally friendly cars of the world an almost CO 2-neutral country to batch. Obwohl beide Fünf-Meter-Schiffe ähnliche Ziele verfolgen, birgt der technische Ansatz weniger Gemeinsamkeiten als erwartet. Although both five-meter vessels similar objectives, the technical approach has less in common than expected. Die geliftete S-Klasse setzt auf einen V6-Benziner, Mildhybrid und viele kleine Spartricks, der LS 600h dagegen auf V8, Vollhybrid und satten Luxus. The geLIFTet S-Class uses a V6 petrol engine, and many small Mildhybrid saving tricks, the LS 600h opposed to V8, full and luscious luxury. Anders gesagt: Wo Hybrid draufsteht, ist nicht immer nur Downsizing und Demut drin. In other words: Where hybrid thing, is not just downsizing and humility there. Den Beweis dafür liefert der Lexus , dessen V8 bei Bedarf so gut geht wie ein V12, der aber beim Gasstreicheln so wenig verbraucht wie ein V6. The evidence provided by the Lexus, whose V8 when needed as well is like a V12, but when Gasstreicheln consumes as little as a V6. So brav und bieder der Lexus zuerst wirken mag – wenn der Fahrer den Bleifuß senkt, erinnert die Beschleunigung an den Turbo-Effekt guter Sportwagen . So brave and honest of the first act Lexus mag - when the driver lowers the Bleifuß remembers the acceleration of the turbo-effect of good sports.
Eco-wonders if the two best cars in city traffic
Der Sechszylinder im S 400 fühlt sich immer rauer und unkultivierter an, dafür schluckt er bei zurückhaltender Fahrweise kaum mehr als manche Vierzylinder. The six-cylinder in the S 400 always feels rough and uncultured, it swallows that he restrained driving little more than some four-cylinder. Der Mercedes addiert seine 20 Elektro-PS nur im unteren Geschwindigkeitsbereich zu den 279-Basis-PS des 3,5-Liter-V6. The Mercedes added his 20-horsepower electric only in the lower speed range of the base 279-horsepower of the 3.5-liter V6. Von dieser defensiven Auslegung profitiert natürlich der Verbrauch, der bei unserer ersten Ausfahrt laut Bordcomputer zwischen 9,7 und 11,2 Litern schwankt. From this defensive interpretation of the consumption benefits of course, at the first exit, according to our on-board computer from 9.7 to 11.2 liters fluctuates. Der Lexus begnügt sich theoretisch mit 9,3 Litern, doch wenn die 445 PS öfter abgerufen werden, schluckt er 11,3 bis 15,1 Liter. The Lexus is satisfied with 9.3 liters in theory, but if the 445 hp are retrieved more often, he swallows from 11.3 to 15.1 liters. Und die Skala ist dann wohl aus Scham tiefrot eingefärbt. And the scale is probably out of shame dyed deep. Kleine Öko-Wunder vollbringen beide Autos bestenfalls im Stadtverkehr, wo die Werksangaben von 11,3 Litern (LS 600h) und 10,9 Litern (S 400) der Nachprüfung standhielten. Small eco-wonders if the two best cars in city traffic, where the factory figures of 11.3 liters (LS 600h) and 10.9 liters (S 400) to review stand.
The hybrid is equal to the character of the S 400
Gewöhnungsbedürftig: Die Bremse des S 400 erscheint trotz des längeren Wegs und höheren Pedaldrucks seltsam gefühllos. Gewöhnungsbedürftig: The brake seems the S 400 in spite of the longer path and higher pedal pressure strangely unfeeling. Der alternative Antrieb passt gut zum souveränen Charakter des Big Benz, der lieber gleitet als hetzt. The alternate drive fits in well with the sovereign character of the big Benz, who glides rather than rush. Nach dem Motor-Aus beim Ampelstopp vermittelt das zusätzliche Anfahr-Drehmoment von 160 Nm zwar einen Extrakick beim Ampelstart, doch in der Folge versickert ein Teil der Energieströme zumindest subjektiv im Labyrinth der Technik. After the engine off at stop lights provides additional starting torque of 160 Nm is an extra kick at the start lights, but subsequently disappeared in a part of the energy flows, at least subjectively in the labyrinth of technology. Besonders gewöhnungsbedürftig wirkt die Bremse, die trotz längeren Wegs und höheren Pedaldrucks seltsam gefühllos erscheint. Especially getting used to, the brake, despite the longer path and higher pedal pressure seems strangely insensitive. Dafür sorgt die Elektronik während der Beschleunigungsphase für nahtlose Übergänge und für ein sanftes Ein- und Ausblenden des E-Werks. This is ensured by the electronics during the acceleration phase for seamless transitions and a smooth entry and hide the e-book.
The LS 600h is the interplay of forces directly experience, even with the accelerator and brake located between cause and effect is just a shock eyelashes. Wer hätte das gedacht? Who would have thought? Der Lexus trifft ins Herz, der Mercedes beglückt den Verstand. The Lexus hits the heart of the Mercedes happy mind. Eindeutig fällt der Preisvergleich aus: Der S 400 Hybrid kostet 9163 Euro mehr als der S 350 Benziner, der kaum langsamer ist. Clearly, the price of the S 400 hybrid will cost 9163 euros more than the S 350 petrol engine, which is hardly slower. Und 12.316 Euro mehr als der S 350 CDI mit dem saftigen Diesel, der laut Werk 7,6 Liter verbraucht. And 12,316 euros more than the S 350 CDI diesel with a juicy, according to plant consumes 7.6 liters. Der Hybrid wird einen schweren Stand haben. The hybrid will have a difficult position
Mild or full hybrid? Der große Unterschied The big difference
Als erstes Serienauto vertraut der S400 Hybrid auf besonders leistungsfähige Lithium-Ionen-Akkus, die Toyota für noch nicht serienreif hält. The first series of car trusts S400 hybrid to particularly efficient lithium-ion batteries, which Toyota does not even hold for production. Der S-Klasse-Hybrid packt den 20-PS-Elektromotor zwischen V6-Benziner und die Siebenstufenautomatik – deshalb sind Schaltrucke zu spüren. The S-Class hybrid packs a 20-horsepower electric motor between the V6 petrol engine and the seven-stage automatic - why sound truck to be felt. Auch der Lexus besitzt ein Stopp-Start-Modul und ein System zur Bremsenergie-Rückgewinnung. Also, the Lexus has a stop-start engine and a system for braking energy recovery. Sein Elektromotor leistet 224 PS und 300 Nm – damit kann man auf kurzen Strecken auch rein elektrisch fahren. Its electric motor makes 224 hp and 300 Nm - so you can even over short distances purely electric drive. Die Nickel-Metallhybdrid-Batterien des Lexus-V8 sind in puncto Energiedichte, Wirkungsgrad, Gewicht und Bauraum der Mercedes-Lösung unterlegen. The nickel-Metallhybdrid batteries Lexus V8 in terms of energy density, efficiency, weight and space of the Mercedes-inferior solution. Zu den Besonderheiten des LS gehören die stufenlos variable Übersetzung des Automatikgetriebes und der permanente Allradantrieb . Among the special features of the LS include the translation of the infinitely variable automatic transmission and permanent four-wheel drive.
- Test Lexus LS 600h/Mercedes S 400 Hybrid - Luxus mit weißer Weste - Greencars - autobild.de
VroomVroom
Autotechnik Ace
The headlights on the Lexus are terrible!
Not wanting to turn this thread into a war about quality, but look at that backseat center console in the Lexus.
Not wanting to turn this thread into a war about quality, but look at that backseat center console in the Lexus.
HighestOfHigh
Cornering Kingpin
The headlights on the Lexus are terrible!
Not wanting to turn this thread into a war about quality, but look at that backseat center console in the Lexus.
Center console doesn't look bad just unecessary! Headlights are ok, but not as sharp in details as the S.
bmer
Tire Trailblazer
With the S400 Hybrid have the gentlemen with lots of money at last a european alternative to the Lexus LS 600h. The Mercedes is economical and clean, but it doesn't persuade in every details. Beyond everything is the strong japanese more fun!
I got similar results with the online translation services I used but I want to be sure the end part is correctly translated. It just sounds weird if Auto Bild thinks LS is more fun than S.
PanterroR
Lap Time Luminary
It just sounds weird if Auto Bild thinks LS is more fun than S.
That's why i've said wow...
ree
Kraftwagen König
I got similar results with the online translation services I used but I want to be sure the end part is correctly translated. It just sounds weird if Auto Bild thinks LS is more fun than S.
The translation program doesn't lie here!! They really wrote - also in the magazine - that the LS is more fun to drive…
…maybe because of 4wd or what ever! Nevertheless they didn't mentioned, that there is no room in the boot of the LS or the extremely low vehicle load capacity! 
coolraoul
Torque Titan
They only commented the driving impressions. No word on comfort, finish, etc.
And the S400 didn't convince them that much.
The motor is less refined than the Lexus, delivers way less power, and the location of the 20hp electric motor between the engine and the gearbox makes some little shocks from the gearbox noticeable.
And the brake feel is weird. This is because the first cms, the brake don't act: it's only the electric motor who reverses itself and brakes the car while regaining energy; only when braking harder do the brakes actually brake the car (seems the electric motor of the Lexus doesn't really "brake" the car). This makes the pedal feel bit insensitive.
However it did consume noticeably less than the Lexus.
The Lexus mostly impressed them with the power "boom", similar to a big turbo, that it delivers. And by the smoothness of the whole hybrid thing, working more unnoticed than in the Merc.
Seems Mercedes needs some time more to really catch up in the hybrid dep with Lexus.
And the S400 didn't convince them that much.
The motor is less refined than the Lexus, delivers way less power, and the location of the 20hp electric motor between the engine and the gearbox makes some little shocks from the gearbox noticeable.
And the brake feel is weird. This is because the first cms, the brake don't act: it's only the electric motor who reverses itself and brakes the car while regaining energy; only when braking harder do the brakes actually brake the car (seems the electric motor of the Lexus doesn't really "brake" the car). This makes the pedal feel bit insensitive.
However it did consume noticeably less than the Lexus.
The Lexus mostly impressed them with the power "boom", similar to a big turbo, that it delivers. And by the smoothness of the whole hybrid thing, working more unnoticed than in the Merc.
Seems Mercedes needs some time more to really catch up in the hybrid dep with Lexus.
cawimmer430
Piston Pioneer
There goes the leg space.
cawimmer430
Piston Pioneer
Die geliftete S-Klasse setzt auf einen V6-Benziner, Mildhybrid und viele kleine Spartricks, der LS 600h dagegen auf V8, Vollhybrid und satten Luxus.
Here's the fundamental difference between these two cars. The LS600h is a full-hybrid while the S400 is a mild-hybrid.
Keep in mind that the S400 uses a V6 while the LS600h has a V8. Furthermore the LS600h was primarily designed for the US market (Lexus knows they won't sell many of these anywhere else) and hence it places heavy emphasis on acceleration (though I doubt that most owners even care or will floor the car at every opportunity). The S400, I am guessing, was constructed first and foremost for the European market (to offer a competitor against the LS600h). I seriously doubt that potential owners of both cars care much about pure performance. The thought of driving an extremely low-emission car is probably at the forefront of their thoughts.
Also, the S400 will be slower because its electric engine makes 20-hp. 20-hp and 160 Nm of torque! 20-hp / 160 Nm against the 224-hp and 300 Nm of torque of the Lexus LS electric engine. Big difference. And this difference gives away the character of both cars. LS600h: designed for power-hungry Americans who also want something "clean". S400: designed as a competitor to the LS600h but with more emphasis on fuel economy and even lower emissions - and it works.
Also, was this S400 a final production model or one of those famous pre-production models that always seems to slip through to be handed over to magazines for testing?
Here's the fundamental difference between these two cars. The LS600h is a full-hybrid while the S400 is a mild-hybrid.
Keep in mind that the S400 uses a V6 while the LS600h has a V8. Furthermore the LS600h was primarily designed for the US market (Lexus knows they won't sell many of these anywhere else) and hence it places heavy emphasis on acceleration (though I doubt that most owners even care or will floor the car at every opportunity). The S400, I am guessing, was constructed first and foremost for the European market (to offer a competitor against the LS600h). I seriously doubt that potential owners of both cars care much about pure performance. The thought of driving an extremely low-emission car is probably at the forefront of their thoughts.
Also, the S400 will be slower because its electric engine makes 20-hp. 20-hp and 160 Nm of torque! 20-hp / 160 Nm against the 224-hp and 300 Nm of torque of the Lexus LS electric engine. Big difference. And this difference gives away the character of both cars. LS600h: designed for power-hungry Americans who also want something "clean". S400: designed as a competitor to the LS600h but with more emphasis on fuel economy and even lower emissions - and it works.
Also, was this S400 a final production model or one of those famous pre-production models that always seems to slip through to be handed over to magazines for testing?
HighestOfHigh
Cornering Kingpin
Exactly! Lexus went after performance while also offering benefits of the Prius technology. The S-class, while not a full-hybrid makes better MPG by using a V6 rather then a V8.
From a "Gas saving" perspective the S-class is a much better buy. The Lexus Hybrid may end up costing more as well then the S-class, but then again nothing is official yet concerning pricing at least in the US. I think it goes on sale in July or August.
From a "Gas saving" perspective the S-class is a much better buy. The Lexus Hybrid may end up costing more as well then the S-class, but then again nothing is official yet concerning pricing at least in the US. I think it goes on sale in July or August.
Similar threads
- Deleted member 1071
- Internal Combustion
Trending content
-
-
-
-
Thread 'Audi A6 vs BMW 5 Series vs Mercedes E-Class vs Lexus ES - which is best?'- donkeykong
Replies: 9
Latest posts
-
Gone off track Cost Cutting Discourse moved from next-gen G65 X5 thread- Latest: Design FIRST
-
-
-