Vs M5 (F10) vs. the Competition

[K-A]

I'm not talking about load/g's on the human body. I'm talking about the cars material strength. The E clearly has more of it than the 5 (fact: Stronger roof/side strength), and I have dissected the NCAP results, and in all frame strength elements, the E withstood more intrusion (steering wheel of he 5 got pushed into cabin more, etc). As far as load g's into the crash test dummie, M-B have always scored low in that regard (the W212 is one of the first that actually scores high), but M-B has always proven that even when their cars had dismal ratings, they saved the most lives. I'm focusing on the stronger body-shell (and more advanced), and the E's is stronger, and lighter than the 5's (i.e, more advanced). This is different than chassis strength BTW, which I believe the 5/6/7/etc. has a higher resistance to torsional twist than the E (i.e they have a stronger torsional rigidity), if the numbers posted by members on this Website have been true.

 

[Zafiro]

Which interior is the best is obvious subjective. According to german test CLS63 have better interior materials and interior built than a Panamera Turbo. I also read another german test between Panamera, 7-series and S-class. Once again both BMW and MB scored better than the Panamera.

 

[Human]

Which interior is the best is obvious subjective. According to german test CLS63 have better interior materials and interior built than a Panamera Turbo. I also read another german test between Panamera, 7-series and S-class. Once again both BMW and MB scored better than the Panamera.

IRL (JIMS) you can take that to the bank. By far the best interior in it's class and a lesson in tactile quality and craftsmanship & the mat paint finishes is brilliantly stunning - that is the good news

The bad news is that IRL, I found the shape of the car very heavy and the design messy.

 

[LaArtist]

Which interior is the best is obvious subjective. According to german test CLS63 have better interior materials and interior built than a Panamera Turbo. I also read another german test between Panamera, 7-series and S-class. Once again both BMW and MB scored better than the Panamera.

But thats MB not BMW....muhahahha j/k

 

[GTA45E]

I'm not talking about load/g's on the human body. I'm talking about the cars material strength. The E clearly has more of it than the 5 (fact: Stronger roof/side strength), and I have dissected the NCAP results, and in all frame strength elements, the E withstood more intrusion (steering wheel of he 5 got pushed into cabin more, etc). As far as load g's into the crash test dummie, M-B have always scored low in that regard (the W212 is one of the first that actually scores high), but M-B has always proven that even when their cars had dismal ratings, they saved the most lives. I'm focusing on the stronger body-shell (and more advanced), and the E's is stronger, and lighter than the 5's (i.e, more advanced). This is different than chassis strength BTW, which I believe the 5/6/7/etc. has a higher resistance to torsional twist than the E (i.e they have a stronger torsional rigidity), if the numbers posted by members on this Website have been true.

Thats impressive!
I believe it`s always been this way. MBs usually do have the stronger bodys.
I remember reading where the MB Estates can handle more weight in the cabin without the torsional flex experienced in the 5-Series wagons.

 

[Guibo]

Eurocarbody award is not just about torsional rigidity.

"For the final voting, the bodyshells must be displayed so that they can be analysed during presentations and in depth debate, and judged on the basis of 23 evaluation criteria grouped in five macro areas: development and application of innovative materials; innovative solutions for development and design; innovative concepts applied to the industrial manufacturing process; values that are significant for the customer, such as safety, ergonomics, acoustic comfort and quality, and, finally, the comprehensiveness and quality of the presentation of the required technical/technological content."

Fiat 500 wins Eurocarbody award - Car Design News

The aluminum spaceframe in the R8 could be less rigid than a steel one. It will depend on what priorities Audi had for it: Possibly slightly less rigid in favor of much, much less weight.

 

[Merc1]

The Fiat 500 is a sturdy feeling little car with heavy doors and solid build quality. Fiat knows they can't sell any junk here anymore. It just got a great crash review too, being a best pick I believe they call it. Wait until the Arbath version comes out.


M

 

[K-A]

Not to mention, I don't see how it can be assumed that an Audi "Spaceframe" body must be more advanced/rigid than an M-B one. Remember, in 2010 (just a couple of years ago), the W212's body shell was the most advanced ever put on a Benz, more-so than the older W221, more-so than the W204, etc. M-B stated in one of their Press Releases, that they used materials and construction on the W212's body that wasn't available or accessible just a couple of years earlier. So that's basically like saying that M-B at their highest capability can't engineer a shell as strong as Audi can (which I think is far fetched).

Also, looking at the roof strength (via crash test data, and via IIHS roof load strength statistics (W212 @ 21,000 lbs of withstanding power VS F10 14,000 lbs), the W212 "beating" the 5 GT in the Eurocarbody Awards, looking at the W212's overall frame after a side impact, and analyzing some of the NCAP stats where they show a few areas, such as:

Rearward Pedal movement:

F10: 38mm (frontal: None)
W212: 8mm (frontal: 2mm)
A6: 5mm (frontal: 12mm)

Steering wheel movement:

F10: Upward: 7mm, Rearward: None
W212: Upward: None, Rearward: None
A6: Upward: None, Rearward: None

Unless one can't accept BMW being behind in anything, and want to make things up, it's clear and right in front of your face factual that the W212 has a stronger and lighter bodyshell (more advanced).

 

[Cashmere]

The M5 should be worried, competition just got stiffer:

 

[K-A]

Is it a V88?

 

[K-A]

BTW, here's a link with a cool video featured in it, showcasing the year the W212 won, how intense the analyzing process is, with tons of experts from all around the world. The R8 got 3rd, XJ got 2nd, and E-Class got 1st. Also in the running was the 5GT, various Euro cars, a Honda, etc.

http://www.automotive-circle.com/eurocarbody09/carbo09_welcome.cfm?lg=e

Then, in 2010, the A8 won the Award, with the Awarding going like this:

1: Audi AG with the new Audi A8
2: Toyota Motor Corporation with the new Lexus LFA
3: BMW Group with the new BMW 5 series
4: Volkswagen AG with the new Volkswagen Sharan
5: FIAT Group Automobiles with the new Alfa Romeo Giulietta

And

The winners of the EuroCarBody Award 2011 are:
Hyundai with the new i40
Audi with the new A6
Mercedes-Benz with the new B-class
BMW with the new 1 Series
Mazda with the new CX-5

.... Looks like Hyundai is really riling things up with their "i40" (I've never even seen the thing).

 

[Sunny]

and analyzing some of the NCAP stats where they show a few areas, such as:

Rearward Pedal movement:

F10: 38mm (frontal: None)
W212: 8mm (frontal: 2mm)
A6: 5mm (frontal: 12mm)

Steering wheel movement:

F10: Upward: 7mm, Rearward: None
W212: Upward: None, Rearward: None
A6: Upward: None, Rearward: None

Unless one can't accept BMW being behind in anything, and want to make things up, it's clear and right in front of your face factual that the W212 has a stronger and lighter bodyshell (more advanced).

I looked up some random chevrolet and A4 and guess what both those cars betters W212.

A Pillar rearward movement (Funny you left this one out cause F10 betters W212 also in this)
Chevrolet Orlando: 2mm
A4: 1mm
W212: 3mm

Rearward Pedal movement:
Chevrolet Orlando: 5mm, upward: none
A4: 6mm (upward: 4mm)
W212: 8mm (upward: 2mm)


Steering wheel movement:

Chevrolet Orlando: Upward: None, Rearward: None
A4: Upward: None, Rearward: None
W212: Upward: None, Rearward: None

So using your (not mine) measure of what car has more "advanced" body shell, I guess both these cars - a Chevy and A4 both have more "advanced" body than E class. Oh well, here comes next parade of excuses of somehow how those numbers are only valid if it puts the Mercedes ahead.

 

[K-A]

Sorry, off the mark a bit still. Those figures from the NCAP I just used to compare the E and 5, and they're mostly meaningless (negligible practically, but are just further points). I thought I included the A-Pillar movement, because I was supposed to write up that although you see less movement in the 5's, I credit that mostly to the steeper angle it's at, as you can see that it caves under pressure rather prematurely (14,000 lbs of load). They were just small further tidbits aside from the hard facts that prove the E has a stronger bodyshell than the 5. Again, the proof is in the crash test pictures, and in the E's much stronger roof, the E's higher % of HSS throughout the body, etc., and the fact that the E won "Best Bodyshell".

Look at the A4's shell and then the W212's. Noticeable intrusion on the A4, and none on the W212.

I've researched this quite a bit, and I have no doubts that the W212 has perhaps the most advanced, and strongest body of any car on the market today, or on the market yesterday, and definitely more-so than anything that BMW has out right now. Where I think the W212 might have any weak spots (relatively speaking) is in the chassis' torsional rigidity, as I "believe" (based off of Members here stating statistics, although M-B have never released chassis strength stats on the E), that the 5/7/6/etc. BMW large chassis may be stronger.

Looks like I'm not the one in denial here.

 

[Zafiro]

Personally I dont care about stiffest bodyshell. I care how the car is to drive. And if I crash while Im doing 100 mph Im dead and a stiff bodyshell wont help much.

 

[K-A]

Understandable, but it seems very hard to convince some BMW "fans" that their precious roundels are behind the curve in some aspects. I don't know how much more factually and clearly I can explain my point, whether it matters or not to anyone (hell, posting side by side pictures, Awards, statistics, and numbers you'd think would do the trick!).

You never know, however, as a strong bodyshell might just help at 100. And if not 100, then surely at 60, 80, etc. You don't want to roll that heavy F10 over onto its roof, I'll tell you that much.

 

[mini_cooper4]

Personally I dont care about stiffest bodyshell. I care how the car is to drive. And if I crash while Im doing 100 mph Im dead and a stiff bodyshell wont help much.

Who told you that you die at 100 mph ? What car, what type of accident, what driver ?
Stiff bodyshell helps a lot. Accidents do happen even at 150 mph and people in high end quality cars do survive in most of the cases
I saw with my own eyes a frontal collision between a GL and a MAN truck in Slovenia.... almost no damage on the GL, but the truck's cabin was inside the cargo space.
Try that with a mini for example or even a SangYong SUV

 

[klier]

Thats impressive!
I believe it`s always been this way. MBs usually do have the stronger bodys.
I remember reading where the MB Estates can handle more weight in the cabin without the torsional flex experienced in the 5-Series wagons.

That's made up out of thin air again most likely.....
You really should post some sources every once in a while when you posts bold statements like this...

 

[Zafiro]

If they survive they are just lucky. Simple as that.

 

[Deckhook]

All of these cars get a 5 star on crash safety so I don't really see where we are going with this debate on stiffness of shell?

 

[Sunny]

All of these cars get a 5 star on crash safety so I don't really see where we are going with this debate on stiffness of shell?

Yes, they all do, but if you look at the scores given by the people who actually do the tests and know what they are doing and what they mean and are there when the test is done, they give 5 (and A6) more points pretty much in every category. Just look at the whiplash test and how badly E does in comparison to 5 or A6. Certain people can't accept those obvious results and discount it as somehow being not valid while picking and choosing other random numbers with out any idea what their implications are to safety. Oh, well when you own one, I guess it helps you sleep better at night... or at the wheel.