i8 Leaked? BMW i8 Spyder

[martinbo]

What a wasted potential.

Absolutely agree.

They could have and should have offered one with a turbo straight 6 +batteries.

But, I have a different take here. The i8 is a victim of the best intentions being executed too early. It never should've been a hybrid. It's full potential would have been better realised if it was released in all-electric form with the kind of capacities and outputs of a P100D. That would've made for a completely unique and hard-to-compare outcome and set the cat amongst the over-fed free range chickens. The i8 is just a decade too early in terms of its powertrain.

 

[Matski]

Absolutely agree.

But, I have a different take here. The i8 is a victim of the best intentions being executed too early. It never should've been a hybrid. It's full potential would have been better realised if it was released in all-electric form with the kind of capacities and outputs of a P100D. That would've made for a completely unique and hard-to-compare outcome and set the cat amongst the over-fed free range chickens. The i8 is just a decade too early in terms of its powertrain.

That would go against the ethos of what the i8 was supposed to be. Efficient Dynamics isn't about making a 2.2 tonne "sports" car by loading it up with more batteries - It's about trying to do more with less.

The biggest issue the i8 has had is simply the weight of public expectation for a mid-engined BMW not be aligned with BMW's goal of sustainability and efficiency with the project.

 

[EnI]

BMW i3 and i8 might not be replaced

First ... BMW i has always been a very dynamic, contemporary PROJECT which resulted into a sub-brand. But the essence is still the same: project oriented. BMW i was conceived as BMW's incubator for innovations & ideas, a sort of "mobility lab".

i3 and i8 are more of niche models. A halo products. Not sustainable. The next i models like "iNext" and "iDynamics" will be much more mainstream models: a mid-size sedan & a large crossover. Much more sustainable marketing & sales wise. Also branding & badging will be much more sustainable.

With BEVs going mainstream it's inevitable core BMW models will get BEV versions and in the final stage all BMWs will be EVs. Meaning - at least when it comes to powertrain electrification the core BMW is slowly morphing into BMW i sub-brand. Or vice versa. That's why in the next stage BEV versions of core BMW models will be branded like this: eg iX3 xDrive30e; i330e; i550e etc. i being the i from BMW i logo. This will eventually kill independent BMW i models like i3 & i8, making the room for BEV 3-series (i330e) & 8-series (i850e).

Also mind: X3 will be a bit redesigned to fit more into BMW i new design language -> morphing into iX3. It won't be "just" an X3 with some blue-colored trim and BMW i badges. But don't expect a completely separate model like MB EQ SUV vs GLC. It will be a "BMW i-ed" X3.

 

[martinbo]

That would go against the ethos of what the i8 was supposed to be. Efficient Dynamics isn't about making a 2.2 tonne "sports" car by loading it up with more batteries - It's about trying to do more with less.

Love your perspective and thought contribution as always but I will differ in this regard; I personally respect the ethos but I don't feel it was realised. I will say instead the i8 ended up doing less with more:

• Very complex in mechanical terms - as is any hybrid
• Most carbon-fibre composite intensive bodyshell in BMW's history
• High cost, high selling price
• Significantly less efficient when driven dynamically in the spirit of that ethos
• Development and production complexity

I have no more than an estimation in this regard but I'm pretty convinced that the weight of the engine, cooling systems, transmission, hybrid-specific electric harness and fossil fuel system components are significant to the extent that the weight of batteries and a rear motor would result in a similar weight outcome. Certainly not 2.2 tons.

The biggest issue the i8 has had is simply the weight of public expectation for a mid-engined BMW not be aligned with BMW's goal of sustainability and efficiency with the project.

The biggest issue is that the i8 - as much as I get and admire what it stands for - did not live up to the expectations created by its maker.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Can't say I'm surprised by the way the i8 has fizzled out. I never understood why somebody would buy one, and I said that from the start. The only market I saw for it was early adopters and not necessarily car enthusiasts. These people have short attention spans and lose interest once the car is more common. And then what are you left with? People with £100,000 in their pocket have a lot more exotic and sexy metal to choose from, such as 911s, Aston Martins etc. In the modern "Top Trump" age where stats and figures on the spec sheet are everything, a 3-cylinder petrol engine and a 0-100km/h time of 4.4 seconds just doesn't cut it.

 

[Matski]

Love your perspective and thought contribution as always but I will differ in this regard; I personally respect the ethos but I don't feel it was realised.

No worries, I can accept other peoples perspectives if they're well reasoned

I will say instead the i8 ended up doing less with more:

• Very complex in mechanical terms - as is any hybrid
• High cost, high selling price
• Development and production complexity
• Significantly less efficient when driven dynamically in the spirit of that ethos

I got about 30 minutes into replying to these points, but I was boring even myself - so I'll just respect your opinion and try and keep mine brief! Fundamentally, I don't believe a big stride towards newer, more sustainable technology can be made without upfront costs and resources, and to treat that investment as counter to the end goal makes the whole idea self-defeating (assuming it remains commercial viable). Using this logic leaves us with the oldest surviving cars representing the cheapest way to sustainability, which might be fair, but it brings with it all the other drawbacks that go with that.

Drive train development can be ammortised across all i-Performance vehicles, and the production complexity isn't represented by the i8's price, or the i3 Rex would also be 100k+. It's basically not possible for BMW to produce anything as new/different as this without spending the money... whatever the ethos, be it Poject-i, Rolls-Royce, or Mini.

I have no more than an estimation in this regard but I'm pretty convinced that the weight of the engine, cooling systems, transmission, hybrid-specific electric harness and fossil fuel system components are significant to the extent that the weight of batteries and a rear motor would result in a similar weight outcome. Certainly not 2.2 tons.

B38 engine is about 90kg, transmission is about 100kg, yeah, there are going to be other things to add in there, but the battery module alone in the production R8 E-Tron (for example) was 595kg - that car weighed 1840kg, so admittedly, not 2.2 tonnes, but still 300kg more than an i8. The i8 and i3 motors are about 50kg each. The weight difference between the P60 and P100D is also about 300kg, so all things considered, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that a powertrain to match the P100D would put the i8 north of 2 tonnes.

The biggest issue is that the i8 - as much as I get and admire what it stands for - did not live up to the expectations created by its maker.

... I'd say by peoples hopes and dreams. I don't recall BMW pitching it as the car people now complain that its not (though I could be wrong, I tend to ignore the drivel that is BMW marketing speak), but I do recall it having a small engine and hybrid system from the very outset.

 

[Matski]

.. I'll add this as a tl;dr to my previous post...

Bugatti Chiron, what does it use a lot of? Turbo's, cylinders and valves!

Tesla P100D, what does it use a lot of? Battery cells!

BMW i8, what does it use a lot of? CFRP!

So which of those things is in the spirit of reduction?

 

[Deleted member 25]

Personnaly my biggest dissapointmenet with the whole I project was the hype and promises around the CFRP. The whole i project was supposed to be the initial incubator to kick in the process of carbon democratization across the main lineup, nothing happened apar fromt the 7er body shell. No carbon trace on the new 5er, 3er, x3..etc. If we are lucky maybe on the new Z4 but even so, the purpose was to use it in high volume cars.

But then again i ask myself, maybe the initial premise that to make great electric cars you had to invest in carbon was simply wrong. For electric cars, the most impotant thing was to rapidly develop the drivetrain (Range + charging times), and for regular cars, the G30 acheived 100kg reduction with better steel construction. So instead of investing a billion in setting up a CFRP factory, they could have used that to develop much better batteries than the ones used in the i cars.

And seeing that they sold the stake in the SGL joint to the mother compagny makes me think that they are now past that whole CFRP phase. They will keep on using it because its a good thing to have, but just not put the focus on it, and you can also see it in their latest vids (bizarrely ultra low profiles ones), that now they are much more investing in the drivetrain performances and industrialization than car construction.

Undoubtly i think both the I3 and I8 were neat and elegantly conceived products, but they just weren't what the emerging big EV market needed.

 

[cawimmer430]

The new i8 Roadster was at BMW Welt today. Very nice, and that color is sweet.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I think that the big problem of this car is that when BMW made its market research they considered only their established competitors and this car was supposed to be the absolute choice for all the progressive customers. They were right that neither MB nor AUDI would present something that would threat the reign of the i8, but they totally underestimated the start up TESLA. TESLA completely stole the show from the i8 and also from the whole "i" project.

 

[cawimmer430]

Personally I wouldn’t really consider Tesla a rival to the i8. Tesla produces purely electric cars whereas the i8 is a hybrid.

I’ve had the pleasure of riding in two i8s, the most recent experience was in December and I absolutely love the i8. The 1.5-l turbo 3-cylinder engine is so refined, and even though the engine noise is pumped into the cabin from speakers, it still sounds great. I find it fascinating that the i8 performs so well with a 3-cylinder engine which feels so nice (more refined and smoother than the old-school-diesel-sounding gasoline 4-cylinder in my BMW).

 

[Centurion]

I think that the big problem of this car is that when BMW made its market research they considered only their established competitors and this car was supposed to be the absolute choice for all the progressive customers. They were right that neither MB nor AUDI would present something that would threat the reign of the i8, but they totally underestimated the start up TESLA. TESLA completely stole the show from the i8 and also from the whole "i" project.

While the i8 is innovative in material usage and drive train, its follow up has been dissapointing. We are several years away from having a drive train that quick and smooth in a 4-Series, and the first electric BMW will be an SUV in two years.

 

[Sunny]

i8 is the Automotive Kodak digital/film hybrid camera -

Yea, they actually made that - KODAK LIMITED: New Kodak Advantix Easyshare APS Camera Combines Benefits Of Film With Most Popular Features Of Digital. They knew digital was going to take over, but the film division was all powerful and managed to stick a film in there.

 

[EnI]

and the first electric BMW will be an SUV in two years.

Forgetting BMW i3?

 

[SCOTT27]

It's the Life.
Some media are in Beijing and some will be flying to Majorca after to drive the new i8/i8 Roadster.

 

[Centurion]

^^
The spec of the silver grey one is awesome. What's the name of the colour?

 

[SCOTT27]

^^
The spec of the silver grey one is awesome. What's the name of the colour?

Donnington Grey from BMW M.

 

[bmwblog]

It's the Life.
Some media are in Beijing and some will be flying to Majorca after to drive the new i8/i8 Roadster.
View attachment 440526 View attachment 440529 View attachment 440528 View attachment 440527

Most of the drives already took place. All waiting for embargo to expire

 

[SCOTT27]

Some lucky owner has an i8 Roadster to directly match their existing i8 in Sophisto Grey.

 

[mihc]

Individual Donington grey color...