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Politics German Politics


My serious concerns regarding a possible German coalition government with a Green junior (heavens forbid a senior) partner:

1.) A further, increasingly rapid, deterioration of the already damaged trans-Atlantic relationship. And I am referring not
only regarding the relationship with the current powers-that-be in Washington D.C., but the post-Trump era as well.
Lasting, perhaps, irreversable damage-regardless of whether Trump is succeeded by a more liberal, progressive
apparatus or an equally conservative administration.

2.) A collapse of the already troubled relationship with Israel. Here also, regardless of who succeeds the Netanyahu
coalition government.

3.) Further isolation and marginalization of Germany with regard to its' influence in the EU. The Greens appear
to consider themselves the saviors of the EU. In fact, they may very well become its' grim reaper.


4.) Perhaps terminal self-inflicted calamity to the German economy due to dictatorial over-regulation. All sectors
included (services, industrial, financial, agricultural).

5.) A further, already critical, bridling of Germanys' security and intelligence apparatus.
 
My serious concerns regarding a possible German coalition government with a Green junior (heavens forbid a senior) partner:

1.) A further, increasingly rapid, deterioration of the already damaged trans-Atlantic relationship. And I am referring not
only regarding the relationship with the current powers-that-be in Washington D.C., but the post-Trump...
And that leads to the question: why are germans electing this party, which in my eyes clearly is a large nail on Germany’s coffin?
Surely, the average german voter didn’t become an imbecile over the last few years. Or has the deteriorating education system allready taken it’s toll... I really don’t get it.
 
Surely, the average german voter didn’t become an imbecile over the last few years.

Not quite...although I admittedly seek clues in Albert Einsteins' elaborations (...human stupidity being an infinite entity...and so forth). My quip aside...It is interesting that a considerable number of Green voters are affluent "best agers". Financially solvent, pensions secured, children studying overseas or relocated overseas or no children at all. And they've just bought a Tesla S for some 100K Euros. Perhaps they feel the urge to subscribe to the "Gutmensch Paradigm". After all, they've got theirs' (Schäfchen im Trockenen, so to speak) and can afford to be "politically correct" in the vein similar to that propagated by (especially) the evangelisch-lutherische church. Perhaps they are seeking some sort of absolution for having been opportunistic, greedy and wealthy. Mind you, I'm just rambling. But contrary to common opinion, the "typical Green voter" is not necessarily or exclusively the idealistic, starry-eyed student or Earth Mama & Papa fundamental environmentalist.

Or has the deteriorating education system allready taken it’s toll... I really don’t get it.

I suspect that it has. The evidence is becoming overwhelming.
 
...and to think that Germans were a people once, a very long time ago, considered to be "Poets & Thinkers" ("Dichter und Denker").

Well...maybe the former remains to hold true.

"Roses are red, violets are blue. I don't know much more. It shows in my IQ.".
 
Why was I moderated for harmless being funny so called politics yesterday in the X7 thread and post deleted whilst at the same time GCF has a political Forum?

Hippocrates!:mad:
Fake news!?
Unfair and biased IMO

@martinbo
 
Jimmy,

Great analysis.

Check the news this morning and my jaw fell open. What's wrong with this country!? The more power this idiotic political party receives the sooner German industry will be seriously endangered. Not to mention our education system since the Greens are forcing this whole gender silliness into the schools - instead of something useful that will educate future generations (like more science subjects etc.).

LINK -> Umfrage: Die Hälfte der Deutschen sind potenzielle Grünen-Wähler - WELT
 
The Greens have benefitted massively due to the influx of former SPD (a party no longer electable) voters as well as a (quite surprisingly) large number of more liberal, more progressive former CDU voters (the affluent "best agers" I alluded to a bit earlier). Consider a very large amount of former highly frustrated CDU/CSU voters that migrated to the AfD (and to the Freie Wähler in Bavaria) and pseudo-libertarian, sociopolitically more pragmatic FDP voters, and we would probably see that the number of more conservative voters will tip the demographic scale in their favor. Perhaps substantially so. And thus, we have a testimony regarding the dire need of a compelling, modern, conservative (not traditionalist, not reactionary) movement. Merkel + her lapdogs, Andrea Nahles, Martin Schulz and an erratic Horst Seehofer have made an absolute dogs' dinner of the (now former) Volksparteien. Their respective parties have become overly-satiated, immobile, arrogant, delusional and detached from the electorate. MOVEMENTS may-and perhaps SHOULD-be the future of German politics.
 
Main mistake of the CDU was, they’ve moved so much towards the left of the political spectrum (shut down all nuclear plants, ending military service, lowering retirement entrance age, “saving” the euro) CDU created room for AfD. Didn’t Frans Josef Strauss once say, there never should be room at the right of CDU/CSU? Nowadays one hardly can separate SPD politics and CDU politics.
As far as the Greens are concerned, I don’t believe they are as popular as some polls want us to believe. It looks more like the mainstream media want us to believe the Greens have become a “bürgerliche Partei” and thus being acceptable as a party for all. Very big mistake thinking so...
 
This thread is a disgrace, horrible, filled with crybabies and has no place on this forum at all.

When will it finally be locked? Why are policics allowed? And why only German politics for that matter, almost exclusively discussed here by non Germans who really have no real clue?

People here are writing the craziest stuff, and it all goes without any fact checking or anything. All personal nonsense.

And I am not the drama queen here Eni, the drama is 7 pages of nonsense. This is a freaking car forum!
 
Saving the euro ... Do you even realise how much Germany even profits from weak(er) Euro? A LOT! Do you think Germany insists so much at saving the eurozone for the humanitarian reason - for helping the poor EU south & east? Germany is enjoying its latest economic success mainly due to weak Euro - making German export extremely competitive.

Strong(er) Euro or even stronger Deutsche Mark would leave Germany in very noncompetitive zone in the global market. FDP is wrong here when it comes to the Euro "issue".

For rich & more developed eurozone members the Euro (who also are global export oriented) is undervalued - so they profited from that. While poorer, less developed eurozone members profit form stable currency & better access to global financial markets (as a member of eurozone) yet for them the euro is overvalued, making them less competitive (having own national currency would perhaps be better for some of them --- that's also a reason why some don't want join the eurozone .. .eg. Poland, Czechia, Hungary ...). And having own currency & monetary policy makes you more flexible - since smaller eurozone members with absolutely no decision making power are just monetary policy & decision takers (de facto stripped of any monetary policy decision making whatsoever).

Also single market ... Germany got tons of new market, cheap labour sites for German corporations in the EE member states etc. Setting most of the fiscal, monetary & regulatory rules in the EU ... No wonder even more member states are furious over German (overwhelming) role in the EU, and becoming more and more rebellious. Also the firm German stance on 4 freedoms (very ironic since the Germany has been the promoter and generator of suspended Schengen rules on some of its borders ... ever since 2015!!!!) drove away the UK from EU.

I'm sick & tired when big nations become pussies and starting to play victims, accusing all the others they are exploitative. Germany is slowly sliding into that mode. again. After 100 years. And we all know what happens when German nation start to feel "victimised".

So, every issue has (at least) two sides. Focusing on the only one of the sides is not OK. Because it makes you misjudge the issue (& the reasons for it) completely.


What German politics lacks these days is precise & proper European & Global vision. Beside some minor immigration issues Germany is very stable & prosperous country & society. And it still is insecure & blaming others for some problems. And that's happening at the peak of the economic conjuncture. Now imagine economic atmosphere getting worse ... What will happen to & in Germany when standard of most of the people will start to drop? 1933 all over again?

Germans have to man up. And take some responsibility for leading! Again. With the arguments, not the power. Unfortunately current German elite & government has none of either. Nor I can see solution in Die Grünen or the AfD. Either CDU/CSU & SPD man up again ... Or you'll have to find a new, pragmatic yet visionary, pro-EU centrist party.

Since f..ed up Germany results in f--ed up Europe, which ends up in the f...ed up entire world.

I'm really worried. Especially since the German (or any other MSM media around the globe) media are a big part of the problem ... generating a very unhealthy social atmosphere.

So, my dear German friends. Don't be whiny little bitc*es (like our fellow Americans & Britons have become). Be the pragmatic ones, finding a proper way out. Man up. I'm begging you. Take it ... for the entire world! ;)
 
As a political junkie that lives in NA, mostly Canada due to family and business I love politics on this side of the pond and also across the pond as well, I am hoping this thread will not be closed as I am following it.
I complain about both US and Canadian politics but my goodness you guys in europe make me feel like an old kvetcher.

You should read the real news then, and not all the fake news, misinformation, personal opinions and whatever you find in this thread.
 
This thread is a disgrace, horrible, filled with crybabies and has no place on this forum at all.

When will it finally be locked? Why are policics allowed? And why only German politics for that matter, almost exclusively discussed here by non Germans who really have no real clue?

People here are writing the craziest stuff, and it all goes without any fact...

Dear Arnaud,

if you're bothered with this topic, why even coming here then (to read about it)????

Stay away! Or are you just trolling around? ;)

Don't be like eg. FoxNews watchers who hear there something "shocking" about some HBO show they don't even watch ... and then go watch it (after hearing some rant about it on FoxNews) and are appalled, and then start to bully regular watchers of that show. Or even start campaigning against that show, trying to bring it down. Just for the sake of it - because they don't agree with it or just don't like it. WTH?

Live, and let live.

So, good bye. Don't come here if you don't like what your're seeing (and reading). :)

Spare yourself & us quite some inconvenience. Thanks. Best, Tine
 
It's also beyond my (and almost everybody else's) level of comprehension why all the fiscal & monetary hawkishness coming from German ruling elite. All the ideas & measures for stronger euro, more austerity, no transfer union, no (more) eurozone solidarity etc.

OK, I get it some Germans are victims of nostalgia ... craving for strong Deutsche Mark and "good old times" (also a consequence of mainly US financial help & patronate over Germany after WWII, making Germany strong again - and allowing it to become a pillar of EU). But those were different times. Different situation in Europe and in the world. So those times are irreversibly gone, and are not coming back. They even can't.

So, then came the fall of the iron curtain, the German unification, the Euro, the EU expansion ... New times. Different times. New, greater challenges. It's like when your company grows from a local garage business to a proper multimilion global corporation. Completely different organisational structure is needed, the challenges are different, you have to care about a lot more of issues & problems. You have to man up, and to profesionalize yourself & your enterprise.

That's what happened to Germany after 1990. And first it seemed Germany is up to the new role ... with Kohl, and then Schroeder. But then came "the She", who has been not up to the role. She can handle the crisis well. Just telling the folks that everything's gonna be all right is not proper crisis handling & management.

So ... Let's say that our American friends were very much responsible (others too, since they had all been playing the US game) for the financial crisis in 2007. For which EU and eurozone weren't ready. Why?

As said: after acquiring Euro, Germany needed its value to be under control - meaning Euro should not be too strong (since that would hurt German export). That's also why Germany acquired Euro - since Deutsche Mark would be just to strong, and monetary measures would be necessary (QE, printing more money, lowering interests rates) to devalue the DM, probably causing huge inflation.
So, instead Germany allowed weaker EU members to join the eurozone (like Greece, Portugal, Spain, Ireland, and some of the EE countries) to keep Euro weaker - due to economic & political & fiscal instabilities in those countries.
So, Germany - despite being fiscally and economically strong enjoyed relatively weak Euro, and the German industry profited much from that fact.
Sure consumption / consumer power dropped, standard of middle class dropped - but Germany enjoyed high rate of employment & high rate of welfare.

So, when financial crisis happened in 2007 ... (more to come soon (TBC) ... Windows 10 latest update keeps my laptop crashing sporadically! Fu*k you Microsoft!!!!) .... some new eurozone suffered a lot since they were not ready for the eurozone membership in the first place but Germany needed them there anyway, so they were allowed to join. Especially eg. Greece that was a buffer zone between Europe and the ME - and was strategically important for Europe, EU, Germany, NATO etc ... so it was allowed to cheat and lie to ECB and to EU about the Greek financial & fiscal fitness.
The crisis in so called PIGS states (Portugal, Ireland, Greece & Spain) caused a lot of intervention from ECB, EU (and also IMF) - the so called Troika - where especially Germany had a leading role & also motive (to save German banks that were exposed in those countries). And then turning to strict austerity in Germany, and also across eurozone, disabling a quick(er) economic recovery in Europe.

And that extreme austerity caused some serious problem in those countries (eg extremely high youth unemployment rates), and almost a complete breakdown of all the state / social sub-systems in Greece. And Greece had to agree to some very hard concessions to get some help. And it was helped but recovery was slow and painful.

And when the immigrant crisis hit in 2015, Greece was still not fully recovered. Still in quite poor financial & fiscal state. EU (and Germany) was reluctant to give Greece more money for the handling of the immigrant influx (nor Frontex - the EU border control & customs units -wasn't ready for extensive deployment) And was not able (nor it was willing) to take responsibility for all the immigrant influx - especially when most of them were heading to Germany (since German immigration office had been very active in promoting immigrant rights across the internet - and many in the ME and beyond acknowledged that).

The Greek revenge to Germany was very sweet. They opened the borders, and so did all the countries on the so called Western Balkan Route - from Greece all up to Austria.

All "the She" could do was to open the German borders for all the immigrant influx - otherwise the whole Balkan would be set on fire again ... countries deploying military on the fragile (and historically disputed) borders across the Balkans. It was the lesser evil. But the real issue was the Willkommenskultur in Germany - which caused all the influx towards Germany (and also eg Sweden) when ME became unstable.

My point? Most of the issues arose from the improper German handling of the crisis situations. Before and during the crisis. The lack of proper vision, lack of proper challenges & proper threats detection ... Were German ruling elite so myopic? So blind? Or perhaps the advisers to the Chancellor & the government are incompetent? Or perhaps BND didn't do all the "homework" properly?

Whatever it was it points towards German ruling elite incompetence, unprofessionalism, lack of vision, lack of foreign affairs knowledge etc.

It's like Germany had been bubbled up from 1945 - 1990, and than thrown into the pond ... to lead the post-Cold War Europe (after French powers faded; and after UK wasn't even interested in EU affairs anymore .. ok, they never have been, honestly). They did something right - under the US guidance: unifying West & East Germany, accepting EE countries into EU club ... But then, after "the She" was appointed Chancellor, everything went down.

Not that all is her fault. Not at all. The foundation far all the troubles was set years before. But she hasn't been up to the challenge. Is she incompetent? Are her advisers incompetent? Is the entire political elite incompetent? Is it the BND incompetent? I don't know. I just know they are not up to the challenges. Sadly.

The situation is complicated and it will be very hard to solve. A wrong move here or there could make a spark that would set the whole EU or world on fire. Especially when very, very dangerous people are in power in USA, China, Russia, Turkey, Hungary, Poland, ME countries etc. And many rulers (and the entire ruling elite) in Western Europe are incompetent - including German & British "the Shes".

Sometimes status quo is better than any false "progress" ... since it could be a "progress" for the worse. As said many times: populist, extremist powers, parties & leaders ARE NOT a proper solution. They will even worsen the situation. Especially in divided Europe. Unstable & divided "my country first" Europe / EU is an easy prey for the bigger fish like US, China, Russia ...

So, again ... Germany, please man up & lead. Stop the blaming game, stop playing a victim & stop searching for shortcuts - because there are none! You're the adult in this house!
 
This thread is a disgrace, horrible, filled with crybabies and has no place on this forum at all.

When will it finally be locked? Why are policics allowed? And why only German politics for that matter, almost exclusively discussed here by non Germans who really have no real clue?

People here are writing the craziest stuff, and it all goes without any fact...

The thread was established for those interested in/debating German politics. The title alone clearly indicates that. It is not required that you follow this thread, Klier. In fact-simply ignore it. You are clearly not interested in the subject matter. Fair enough. But you do appear to be interested in conveying a haughty, condescending, schoolmasterly message that is as superfluous as tits on bacon (or your presence on this particular thread) and as constructive as a tantrum of a 5 year old.

Just don't bother. Your absence will go unnoticed. And perhaps be appreciated.
 
You should read the real news then, and not all the fake news, misinformation, personal opinions and whatever you find in this thread.
I do read the news thank you very much.
Politics is greatly influenced by events(individual or collective) and personal reactions to those events-which by the way forms public opinion.
Understand what people are thinking or their opinion on issues; if you don't you are bound to lose touch of reality.
Just my opinion.
 
Tomorrows' elections in Hessen may pave the path towards a genuine upheaval in German politics. At the moment, it appears that the CDU, The Greens and the SPD are very close to each other in the most recent polls. Will the (in Hessen relatively productive and thus successful ) CDU/Green coalition be confirmed for a further term ? Will the "senior/junior" partnership roles of the aforementioned be reversed ? Will the SPD attempt to establish a leftist coalition with The Greens and Die Linke (a recipe that, in my opinion, is akin to placing a brick on the accelerator of a vehicle pointed towards a granite wall) ?

But most importantly: Will we (finally) see Chancellor Angela Merkel and SPD chairman Andrea Nahles being deposed ?
 
Die Grünen seem to be ON FIRE in Germany at the moment. o_O

At least when in comes to latest polls (Hessen local, German federal or European parliamentary): overtaking SPD & AfD, taking #2 position, not trailing much behind the leading CDU/CSU. :eek:
 
Anne Wills' political talkshow late yesterday evening was highly interesting-and often quite entertaining as well. My personal observations:

CDU General Secretary Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer and Federal Minister Of Finance Olaf Scholz (SPD) have as much charisma as a pair of raw potatoes and are the embodiments of their respective partys' woes. Both the CDU as well as the SPD are in the direst need of sweeping renewal. And FAST.

Green party co-chairman Robert Habeck is so overly-sensitive, so overly-reactive, so incapable of grasping an opponents' elaborations without becoming offended (and a very poor listener) that I now have serious concerns with regard to his stability. I shudder at the thought of Habeck occupying a high office in federal politics.

FDP chairman Christian Lindner was quite brilliant. I found that he made quite the monkey of Habeck in their frequent skirmishes.
 
Merkel will not seek re-election as CDU party chair: source


BERLIN (Reuters) - German Chancellor Angela Merkel has told leaders of her Christian Democrats (CDU) that she will not seek re-election as party chairwoman at a conference in early December, a senior party source said on Monday.

Merkel, 64, has been CDU chairwoman since 2000 and giving up the role would start a race within the party to succeed her as chancellor. The euro EUR= fell to session lows on the news.


German news agency DPA, citing sources, tweeted that Merkel wanted to remain chancellor.

Monday’s developments come after the CDU came home first but bled support in a vote in the western state of Hesse on Sunday, the second electoral setback in as many weeks for Merkel’s conservative alliance.


Standing down from the party chair would allow a new CDU chairman or woman to build a profile before the next national election, due in 2021. Merkel’s favored successor is CDU party secretary general Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer.

Merkel will not seek re-election as CDU party chair: source | Reuters
 

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