Politics Brexit Politics

[WBarnes]

Maybe. Maybe it was living next to Bridlington that made me a remoaner



It's not the average, it's the statutory minimum for full time workers.

Holiday entitlement

Holiday entitlement or annual leave - information for employers and workers on entitlement, calculating leave, taking leave, accruing leave and disputes

www.gov.uk

I get 28 days, my 'Leave' voting employee's also get 28 days. Are you suggesting that companies that lean towards Remain treat their workers better, and that companies that lean towards Leave ignore government rules on workers statutory rights?



Anecdotal, also that's not how averages work. If you think anecdotal evidence is valuable, then I can hand on heart say that the ONE year (2015) in the last 20 that I actually used my full holiday allocation, I went abroad 4 times Germany, France, Netherlands and Belgium.... still had time for Christmas and New Year break too (and had 12 other weekends away in Britain)... and I'm pulling down nowhere near medical consultant money, infact, my salary is pretty average. Perhaps I personally place more emphasis on travel, guess that's just a remoaner thing...

... and since we're talking about anecdotal averages again ... you stated



So by your own data, they are not representative of the national-holidaying-abroad-average (of 1.9×)... infact, they go ~50% less than average, so for every person like that you know, there must statistically be someone going abroad three times... like say... your Sister, who you think is "not particularly average"... so your conclusion that "That's more in line with people I know from the places I've worked. Most go once, a few go twice." is clearly not representative. Perhaps your experience of holiday entitlement is similarly skewed. This is why I don't like anecdotal observations being used as evidence, personally.

28 days includes 8 days bank holidays. So it's 20+8. The annual leave entitlement is only 20.

Why are you still talking I just posted proof above?

Average number of holidays abroad from the UK 2022| Statista

In 2022, the average number of holidays abroad per person in the UK rose over the previous year but remained below pre-pandemic levels.

www.statista.com

Seen as you forced me.

Average number of holidays abroad from the UK 2022| Statista

In 2022, the average number of holidays abroad per person in the UK rose over the previous year but remained below pre-pandemic levels.

www.statista.com

So the average for the last decade is about 1.4-1.5, which isn't too far off 82m/67m.

More Brits heading off on holiday

Research shows people are taking more holidays but on a tighter budget.

www.abta.com

3.9 is the figure including short trips in the UK, e.g. went to somewhere for the day/weekend, not abroad. It clearly says this in two links but as usual David Brent gets it wrong. I stand by my original remark that most people only spend 1-2 weeks abroad per year, which is supported by these links.

Typical out of touch Remainer who thinks that the average UK resident goes for 4 holidays abroad per year.

The average holidays of 1 week or more is now 1.1, over most of the last decade it has been less. The total holidays abroad averaged over the last decade is ~1.4 (2019 is a single spike - possibly even people hurrying to take a holiday before Brexit, in 2016, time of referendum it was 1.4), so that includes a few weekend visits on top of the main holiday, or maybe a wedding/funeral attendance. So my original statement that most people spend only 1-2 weeks abroad per year is correct. Therefore roaming charges and access to Netflix abroad is barely relevant. And only a Remainer who thinks life is just one big holiday could assume people spend 4 holidays abroad per year, each averaging 9.7 days. This is why you think EU membership was a good think, you and Brent don't even live in the real world. How's the weather up there?

 

[WBarnes]

Why are you taking the average of the last decade when the discussion is about what is happening now (or at least pre-COVID)? It's to lower the figure.

It's amazing that someone who has constantly refused to accept data/evidence for a wide range of topics, all of a sudden is relying on data/evidence to make a point.




Not the figures I was referring to. The only actual evidence I referred to was 3 holidays per year in 2017, and I provided a screenshot for that. Besides which, travel is more than just holidays. Visiting friends and relatives is not included in the holiday figures. Business travel is not included in holiday figures. And it was YOU who switched the discussion to "holidays", as if that's the only reason people travel!

As usual, you disrupt and use strawman arguments so that nobody really has a clue what is being discussed.




Ah, so you suddenly trust links now it suits you? Well, if I was you I would say "no way. Frankly I would refuse to believe that even if you came up with some links, because I know it to be wrong".

So, to use your words, I don't believe the figures because I know them to be wrong.

And, so you're talking about "UK residents" now are you? Which is it? Brits or UK residents?

I'm taking an average over the last decade because some people might have been squeezing in trips abroad before Brexit, 1.9 is a spike. In 2016 it 1.4 (time of referendum). Only 1.1 holidays are for more than a week, this is again likely influenced by Brexit looming, in 2016 it was only 0.7. Hence my original statement of a 1-2 weeks/year average is completely correct. Either way your figure of 3.9 holidays abroad is complete and utter bollox, just as I knew it was without even looking because I live in the real world.

All this is apparently completely irrelevant to you now that you've been proven completely wrong and that the Earth is in fact round and not flat, which is as far off as your original claim.

 

[Matski]

28 days includes 8 days bank holidays. So it's 20+8. The annual leave entitlement is only 20.

No, it doesn't. The statutory entitlement is 28 days, that can, but doesn't necessarily, include Bank Holidays... From the Government:

Bank holidays
Bank or public holidays do not have to be given as paid leave.

An employer can choose to include bank holidays as part of a worker’s statutory annual leave.

And in the case where bank holidays ARE used in the entitlement, you're still getting 28 days off to use as holiday.

According to this...

These are your legal rights on holiday entitlement - as two million miss out

One worker in 12 is not getting the time off work they are entitled to, according to analysis by the Trades Union Congress (TUC).

inews.co.uk

The average in the UK is 33.5 days (including public holidays), and only 1 in 12 isn't getting what they're entitled to. This seems at odds with your claim of "17-22" days, and anything above 26 being "seriously cushy".

And only a Remainer who thinks life is just one big holiday could assume people spend 4 holidays abroad per year, each averaging 9.7 days. This is why you think EU membership was a good think, you and Brent don't even live in the real world. How's the weather up there?

You'll no doubt notice, but will ignore, that I prefaced the numbers I quoted by saying I had no intention of proving the claims Big Sam had posted, and admitted that it was a crude model, but it was, mathematically, one way of arriving at the claim from government data at hand, and I explained the methodology, so err... 14°C and damp, thanks.

Anyhow the average is from ONS data.

93,085,772 visits abroad in 2019, total 904,905,104 nights spent abroad... average nights per visit is therefore 9.72. You've implied a couple of times that because a data point doesn't match an average, that the average must be wrong... I just want to check that you agree with the methodology here?

 

[WBarnes]

No, it doesn't. The statutory entitlement is 28 days, that can, but doesn't necessarily, include Bank Holidays... From the Government:



And in the case where bank holidays ARE used in the entitlement, you're still getting 28 days off to use as holiday.

According to this...

These are your legal rights on holiday entitlement - as two million miss out

One worker in 12 is not getting the time off work they are entitled to, according to analysis by the Trades Union Congress (TUC).

inews.co.uk

The average in the UK is 33.5 days (including public holidays), and only 1 in 12 isn't getting what they're entitled to. This seems at odds with your claim of "17-22" days, and anything above 26 being "seriously cushy".



You'll no doubt notice, but will ignore, that I prefaced the numbers I quoted by saying I had no intention of proving the claims Big Sam had posted, and admitted that it was a crude model, but it was, mathematically, one way of arriving at the claim from government data at hand, and I explained the methodology, so err... 14°C and damp, thanks.

Anyhow the average is from ONS data.

93,085,772 visits abroad in 2019, total 904,905,104 nights spent abroad... average nights per visit is therefore 9.72. You've implied a couple of times that because a data point doesn't match an average, that the average must be wrong... I just want to check that you agree with the methodology here?

It includes bank holidays except where the person is in a role that requires them to work bank holidays. I was clearly referring to annual leave entitlement not statutory holidays.

I've already proven my point beyond any doubt. The average number of holidays per year over the last decade is 1.4, with less than 1 for 1 week or more.

https://germancarforum.com/attachments/566436/

More Brits heading off on holiday

Research shows people are taking more holidays but on a tighter budget.

www.abta.com

Holidays abroad, particularly longer holidays of seven nights or more, are proving especially popular. The number of foreign holidays of 7+ nights has increased to an average of 1.1 per person in 2019, up from 1.0 in 2018 and 0.7 in 2016. More than six in ten Brits (64%) took a foreign holiday in the 12 months to July 2019, up from 60% the previous year, and the highest figure since 2011.

And how does 9.72 days disagree with the statement I made of 1-2 weeks on average? It was only the 3.9 times that I disagreed with, which you tried to support by dividing annual leave plus bank holidays by 9.72. And clearly if you divide 93m by 67m, you get 1.4, which is roughly the same as the source I posted as averaged over the last decade. Jeez you keep proving me right, even when you're trying to prove me wrong.

It's 14degC and damp up your backside? Priceless.

 

[Matski]

It includes bank holidays except where the person is in a role that requires them to work bank holidays.

No it doesn't. It includes what's in the contract, and it must total 28 days (pro-rata) however it's sliced. Employers can choose to add on bank holidays to entitlement or subtract them - it's nothing to do with role, it's entirely employers discretion, but the total must be 28 days or more. If you've signed contracts that mean you get less than your statutory entitlement then I hope you were remunerated appropriately.

I was clearly referring to annual leave entitlement not statutory holidays.

No, you weren't, and if you were the inference is that people only go away during their company holiday entitlement days, and not weekends or bank holidays, or a combination of weekends, bank holidays, holiday entitlement days and days they may simply not work! Which they objectively almost positively do!

I know your end goal here is to paint a picture where Big Sam and I, as remain voters, are so disconnected from reality we don't know what's going on... which certainly in my case is frankly ridiculous - but from where I'm sitting, you're the one with the cushy, "working" from home job, for large companies where you appear to be personally exceptionally well insulated from the external factors of either EU membership or Brexit. I'm not that lucky, everything from overflowing bogs, to employee contracts, to holiday approval, to £30 enquiries from boat builders to £6million supply agreements, to external quality auditing and MHRA matters, to import/export problems comes across my desk for my input, and I'm only earning the local average wage... as I'm sure I've said before, as far as I can tell, you've got no skin in the game, just an opinion. Big Sam might not be typical of most people in the country, but he at least is speaking from personal experience too.

 

[WBarnes]

No it doesn't. It includes what's in the contract, and it must total 28 days (pro-rata) however it's sliced. Employers can choose to add on bank holidays to entitlement or subtract them - it's nothing to do with role, it's entirely employers discretion, but the total must be 28 days or more. If you've signed contracts that mean you get less than your statutory entitlement then I hope you were remunerated appropriately.



No, you weren't, and if you were the inference is that people only go away during their company holiday entitlement days, and not weekends or bank holidays, or a combination of weekends, bank holidays, holiday entitlement days and days they may simply not work! Which they objectively almost positively do!

I know your end goal here is to paint a picture where Big Sam and I, as remain voters, are so disconnected from reality we don't know what's going on... which certainly in my case is frankly ridiculous - but from where I'm sitting, you're the one with the cushy, "working" from home job, for large companies where you appear to be personally exceptionally well insulated from the external factors of either EU membership or Brexit. I'm not that lucky, everything from overflowing bogs, to employee contracts, to holiday approval, to £30 enquiries from boat builders to £6million supply agreements, to external quality auditing and MHRA matters, to import/export problems comes across my desk for my input, and I'm only earning the local average wage... as I'm sure I've said before, as far as I can tell, you've got no skin in the game, just an opinion. Big Sam might not be typical of most people in the country, but he at least is speaking from personal experience too.

Strawmanning. You're wrong, people don't have 4 holidays abroad per year on average, nor do they spend every single day off work abroad.

Roaming charges? Good. Don't bring your mobile, that way work won't be able to contact you while you're on holiday.

 

[Deleted member 57437]

A question that may be a bit difficult to answer, but I'll ask it anyway:

How are "silent majority, salaried (or pensioned), non-civil service employed" Britons actually coping with the "everyday consequences" of the BREXIT ? The consequences that actually effect their daily lives. Quoting Roger Waters: "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way..."? Here in Germany, inflation (energy and other utilities, foodstuffs, rents, etc.) has become an issue of prime concern in most households.

 

[Big Sam]

I know your end goal here is to paint a picture where Big Sam and I, as remain voters, are so disconnected from reality we don't know what's going on... which certainly in my case is frankly ridiculous - but from where I'm sitting, you're the one with the cushy, "working" from home job, for large companies where you appear to be personally exceptionally well insulated from the external factors of either EU membership or Brexit. I'm not that lucky, everything from overflowing bogs, to employee contracts, to holiday approval, to £30 enquiries from boat builders to £6million supply agreements, to external quality auditing and MHRA matters, to import/export problems comes across my desk for my input, and I'm only earning the local average wage... as I'm sure I've said before, as far as I can tell, you've got no skin in the game, just an opinion. Big Sam might not be typical of most people in the country, but he at least is speaking from personal experience too.

He seems to think I'm sat in some ivory tower, but I am from a working class background and grew up on some of the roughest council estates in Leeds. I'm from a single parent family, and due to my background I'm still engrained in working class Northern England. My wife's grandma still lives in a low-income area in Leeds and we visit her once per month. I play snooker with my dad at a working men's club in a rough part of Leeds in the shadow of Armley Jail on a regular basis. We've been going there since I was small. I remember rats frequently running across the floor in a the middle of a game.

I had a lucky break in that I have a skill which not many people have, but I'm very much in touch with reality. In fact, judging by the comments WBarnes makes about not wanting to travel and working from home, I experience a broader range of life than him, and yet he says I'm out of touch?! Mind you, he's also said I'm rarely in the UK, which is completely false (I'm typing this sat in my living room in the UK). In short, he frequently makes stuff up without any evdience whatsoever.

Strawmanning. You're wrong, people don't have 4 holidays abroad per year on average, nor do they spend every single day off work abroad.

Roaming charges? Good. Don't bring your mobile, that way work won't be able to contact you while you're on holiday.

Out of interest, I just asked my wife how many times she used to go abroad before we met. She had an average office job in London. She said it was around five or six times per year, often with friends. That was lots of weekends away where she didn't have to use leave.

Anyway, the point was never solely about holidays. You made it about holidays.

A question that may be a bit difficult to answer, but I'll ask it anyway:

How are "silent majority, salaried (or pensioned), non-civil service employed" Britons actually coping with the "everyday consequences" of the BREXIT ? The consequences that actually effect their daily lives. Quoting Roger Waters: "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way..."? Here in Germany, inflation (energy and other utilities, foodstuffs, rents, etc.) has become an issue of prime concern in most households.

Maybe wait until the UK is able to implement the full regulations after Brexit. They've still not introduced all the checks at the border, as it would cripple the country. The fact that there are already major problems in the supply chain suggests it won't go well.

The long term consequences of Brexit; well you'll have to ask the children when they're grown up and no longer have the freedom to go live, work and study in 26 other EU countries. And as for the reputation of the UK on a global scale, and the UK Government's behaviour in the Brexit negotiations... I do worry for the future of the United Kingdom.

 

[WBarnes]

Out of interest, I just asked my wife how many times she used to go abroad before we met. She had an average office job in London. She said it was around five or six times per year, often with friends. That was lots of weekends away where she didn't have to use leave.

Anyway, the point was never solely about holidays. You made it about holidays.

You brought up roaming charges and using Netflix abroad, I pointed out that most people only spend 1-2 weeks abroad out of the year. Instead of accepting that you started going on about 4 holidays abroad being the average, I pointed out that you were wrong.

 

[WBarnes]

A question that may be a bit difficult to answer, but I'll ask it anyway:

How are "silent majority, salaried (or pensioned), non-civil service employed" Britons actually coping with the "everyday consequences" of the BREXIT ? The consequences that actually effect their daily lives. Quoting Roger Waters: "Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way..."? Here in Germany, inflation (energy and other utilities, foodstuffs, rents, etc.) has become an issue of prime concern in most households.

Food shopping is alright. Energy prices are said to rise but that may be more than a Brexit thing. Mostly same old, same old.

 

[Deleted member 57437]

I can only suspect that it goes without saying that the U.K., as well as the EU and the remainder of continental Europe are in store for even more turbulent times. Significant geo-and sociopolitical shifts will ensure that. Good luck to all of us. It amazes me how my own country has changed over the course of the past 7+ some years. The pace of change will only accelerate in coming years, I imagine. Currently, the upward spiral of the cost-of-living has become the major concern for the large majority of our citizens. Especially utility and fuel costs-simply crazy.

 

[WBarnes]

27 nations in the EU and only one of them has a problem with fishing licence arrangements, even though licensing arrangements were agreed in the deal.

 

[Big Sam]

27 nations in the EU and only one of them has a problem with fishing licence arrangements, even though licensing arrangements were agreed in the deal.

Seeing as the dispute centres around fishing in Jersey's territorial waters, it's only really going to concern one EU country, which is France. That this issue is not the highest priority for Croatia, Greece, Finland etc, shouldn't come as a surprise. This shouldn't have to be explained to you, but then your failure to grasp this is all too predictable.


As for what was agreed in the deal, the UK has made it perfectly clear what they think of sticking to "the deal" with Northern Ireland, or is it ok to pick and choose which part of the deal you honour?

 

[WBarnes]

The licensing requirements were known about up front and agreed. The vast majority of license applications have been granted. French fishermen always complain about everything, they were complaining even when we were in the EU:

'Scallop war': French and British fishermen skirmish over shellfish

Stone-throwing, insults and dangerous manoeuvres on the high seas: French and British fishermen clashed in the English Channel over a hoard of scallops Tuesday, the latest flare-up in a years-long war…

www.france24.com

NI wasn't really part of the deal, it was set as a precondition for negotiations and it also breaches the GFA, which takes precedence both chronologically and in terms of priority. When British people protest it's because there's a real problem, when French people protest it just means it's morning, as exemplified by the year-long yellow vest protests.

EDIT: Make that 3-year-long yellow vest protests and counting.

 

[Big Sam]

The licensing requirements were known about up front and agreed.

As was the Northern Ireland Protocol, by Lord Frost, an "unelected bureaucrat", something which Leavers wanted to get rid of. Either the UK didn't understand the Trade and Cooperation Agreement they'd signed (possible considering who was negotiating and they'd given MPs barely enough time to read the whole document). Or they signed it in bad faith with the intentions of extending the grace periods of the checks between the UK and Northern Ireland, something which they did barely three months after Brexit, triggering legal action by the EU. The latter is also a possibility, especially as the UK Government have regularly lied about Brexit and the possible impacts. "No border in the Irish Sea", Boris Johnson said, barely unable to hide the smirk on his face.

So to claim "things were known about and agreed" is hypocritical in the extreme, considering the UK knew about and agreed the Brexit deal.

The vast majority of license applications have been granted. French fishermen always complain about everything, they were complaining even when we were in the EU:

'Scallop war': French and British fishermen skirmish over shellfish

Stone-throwing, insults and dangerous manoeuvres on the high seas: French and British fishermen clashed in the English Channel over a hoard of scallops Tuesday, the latest flare-up in a years-long war…

www.france24.com

They have, but the issue stems from around 100 French fishing vessels which are small and generally don't have GPS, which means it's hard to prove they historically fished in Jersey's waters. It relies on good faith from the UK to issue these licences. I have no idea whether the UK or France is at fault, and therefore I cannot comment. This is as much about the NI Protocol and the French being sick to the back teeth of the UK breaking the terms of the agreement already, and now wanting to renegotiate less than one year after it was signed. It's also about winning votes in the coastal communities for the French elections next year.

NI wasn't really part of the deal, it was set as a precondition for negotiations and it also breaches the GFA, which takes precedence both chronologically and in terms of priority.

It absolutely crucial to the Brexit TCA being agreed, and it was the major sticking point of Brexit (it still is). To dismiss it as "not part of the deal" demonstrates yet again that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

When British people protest it's because there's a real problem,

You mean like on 19th July this year in London, when anti-lockdown protesters clashed with police on the very day the final restrictions were being lifted in England? You mean those kinds of protests? Or how about the regular protests whenever Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is in prison demanding he be released?

when French people protest it just means it's morning, as exemplified by the year-long yellow vest protests.

EDIT: Make that 3-year-long yellow vest protests and counting.

I'm glad the French are allowed to protest. Being the cultured person you are you will understand it's a fundamental part of the French psyche, and thank God for that. If Priti Patel gets her way, the UK will have some of the strictest and least-democratic laws in the World when it comes to protesting. If the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill becomes law, it will rely on the goodwill and common sense of police chiefs to allow protests. As you've made your thoughts on the police known in the light of the Sarah Everard case, I assume you wouldn't like that one bit.

But of course, the British only ever protest when it's necessary, and whenever the French protest it's for silly reasons.


This kind of xenophobic nonsense that you constantly push just highlights how small-minded you are. Maybe stop reading The Sun and falling for the jingoistic rubbish that they publish. You don't have to permanently be in a state of war with foreigners.

 

[WBarnes]

As was the Northern Ireland Protocol, by Lord Frost, an "unelected bureaucrat", something which Leavers wanted to get rid of. Either the UK didn't understand the Trade and Cooperation Agreement they'd signed (possible considering who was negotiating and they'd given MPs barely enough time to read the whole document). Or they signed it in bad faith with the intentions of extending the grace periods of the checks between the UK and Northern Ireland, something which they did barely three months after Brexit, triggering legal action by the EU. The latter is also a possibility, especially as the UK Government have regularly lied about Brexit and the possible impacts. "No border in the Irish Sea", Boris Johnson said, barely unable to hide the smirk on his face.

So to claim "things were known about and agreed" is hypocritical in the extreme, considering the UK knew about and agreed the Brexit deal.




They have, but the issue stems from around 100 French fishing vessels which are small and generally don't have GPS, which means it's hard to prove they historically fished in Jersey's waters. It relies on good faith from the UK to issue these licences. I have no idea whether the UK or France is at fault, and therefore I cannot comment. This is as much about the NI Protocol and the French being sick to the back teeth of the UK breaking the terms of the agreement already, and now wanting to renegotiate less than one year after it was signed. It's also about winning votes in the coastal communities for the French elections next year.




It absolutely crucial to the Brexit TCA being agreed, and it was the major sticking point of Brexit (it still is). To dismiss it as "not part of the deal" demonstrates yet again that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.




You mean like on 19th July this year in London, when anti-lockdown protesters clashed with police on the very day the final restrictions were being lifted in England? You mean those kinds of protests? Or how about the regular protests whenever Stephen Yaxley-Lennon is in prison demanding he be released?




I'm glad the French are allowed to protest. Being the cultured person you are you will understand it's a fundamental part of the French psyche, and thank God for that. If Priti Patel gets her way, the UK will have some of the strictest and least-democratic laws in the World when it comes to protesting. If the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill becomes law, it will rely on the goodwill and common sense of police chiefs to allow protests. As you've made your thoughts on the police known in the light of the Sarah Everard case, I assume you wouldn't like that one bit.

But of course, the British only ever protest when it's necessary, and whenever the French protest it's for silly reasons.


This kind of xenophobic nonsense that you constantly push just highlights how small-minded you are. Maybe stop reading The Sun and falling for the jingoistic rubbish that they publish. You don't have to permanently be in a state of war with foreigners.

The NI Protocol was something signed up to under duress (it relates to precondition) and it's clearly not legal if you understand the original GFA and it's something that affects the EU and France very, very little since the quantity of trade passing over the border from NI to ROI is negligible. The NI Protocol was a land grab and nothing more, which is also illegal. If the deal falls through there'll be zero licenses provided to French fishermen any year, then they'll really be upset. And give me a break, even cars have GPS these days, and hand held GPS has been available and on mobile devices and phones for donkey's years. Didn't have GPS on a boat, or any device they had on them? All 100+ of them? More like didn't have any record of fishing there. And given that they knew well in advance, it's not like Brexit was quick, you'd have thought they'd have spend like £50 on one given that their livelihoods depended on it.

The whole problem here is that we decided that we needed a deal and we don't. The customs checks are already effectively blocking any trade anyway, and are being used as an excuse to further block it whenever France wishes, so f*ck the deal. Let's collect some tariffs and let Macron be left with zero fishing licenses and be kicked from office for his troubles. So for the sake of the little patch of water around Jersey they'll lose access to all British waters. Stick a gas turbine on Jersey and problem solved. We'll never get any respect from the EU and certainly none from France whilst we cling on to the deal.

I'm afraid you simply can't compare protests in Britain to those in France however hard you try. Sure, stuff happens for one day, businesses were affected by the Lockdown. In France the protests last forever.

It's because of protests like those in France that the bill was even drawn up, i.e. climate clowns repeatedly blocking the M25, which only increases greenhouse emissions. There's protesting and there's interfering with the lives and liberty of others.

You don't always have to side with foreigners when they're so clearly in the wrong just to be 'PC'. When has the UK ever had 3 year long protests? I'll answer that for you. Never, never ever. Sometimes xenophobic nonsense is just plain fact that happens to have hurt someone's feelings. Fact 1: Macron is an ass. Fact 2: He's a pirate. I'm sure there's a way of combining those two facts.

 

[Big Sam]

The NI Protocol was something signed up to under duress (it relates to precondition) and it's clearly not legal

I'm sure if that was the case the UK Government would have made it very clear that was the situation. They didn't. They said it was "excellent" for the UK.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

"Duress"?

And give me a break, even cars have GPS these days, and hand held GPS has been available and on mobile devices and phones for donkey's years.

We're not talking about GPS systems for navigation, but to actually record and trace locations of fishing boats. You would know this if you actually did even the slightest bit of research.

It's because of protests like those in France that the bill was even drawn up, i.e. climate clowns repeatedly blocking the M25

It's France's fault that Insulate Britain are blocking roads, and it's also France that is influencing which new laws are pushed through parliament? That's quite a stretch, even for you.

You don't always have to side with foreigners when they're so clearly in the wrong just to be 'PC'.

I'm not "siding with foreigners". I literally said "I have no idea whether the UK or France is at fault, and therefore I cannot comment". It's there in black and white in my post.

 

[WBarnes]

I'm sure if that was the case the UK Government would have made it very clear that was the situation. They didn't. They said it was "excellent" for the UK.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

"Duress"?

They have to try and sell it to the people, but everyone knew it was a POS.

We're not talking about GPS systems for navigation, but to actually record and trace locations of fishing boats. You would know this if you actually did even the slightest bit of research.

A quick Google shows that such devices can be bought for £80 and you can get phone apps that do the same, so get the hell out of here with that BS, they couldn't provide a record because they weren't there.

It's France's fault that Insulate Britain are blocking roads, and it's also France that is influencing which new laws are pushed through parliament? That's quite a stretch, even for you.

That isn't what I said, it's the fear of that type of persistent strangulation protest that led to the bill. Having your say is one thing, bringing everyone else's daily life to a standstill and preventing businesses from operating indefinitely until you get what you want is a form of terrorism.

I literally said "I have no idea whether the UK or France is at fault, and therefore I cannot comment".

Let me help you, France is.

 

[Big Sam]

A quick Google shows that such devices can be bought for £80 and you can get phone apps that do the same, so get the hell out of here with that BS, they couldn't provide a record because they weren't there.

Again, you have the logic of a child. Cheap GPS systems exist, sure, but you have absolutely no idea if they're suitable to prove boats' presence geographically at a later date several years later. How do you know they were told a while ago that they would have to prove where they fished historically? You're speaking with absolutely zero knowledge about anything you're talking about.

That isn't what I said, it's the fear of that type of persistent strangulation protest that led to the bill. Having your say is one thing, bringing everyone else's daily life to a standstill and preventing businesses from operating indefinitely until you get what you want is a form of terrorism.

Oh giveover. You connected France's tendency to have protests with those in the UK, when there's no connection at all. Stop blaming everything on foreigners.

Brits like you are a joke, and every day I spend in the EU I feel I have to apologise for the embarrassment people like you cause to the UK. In your head, the clip below is the EU getting the UK to sign the Brexit Agreement. "Under duress"? Give. Me. A. Break. The UK was supposed to hold all the cards weren't they? How was the UK pushed into signing something "under duress"? Ha ha ha!!!

 

[WBarnes]

Again, you have the logic of a child. Cheap GPS systems exist, sure, but you have absolutely no idea if they're suitable to prove boats' presence geographically at a later date several years later. How do you know they were told a while ago that they would have to prove where they fished historically? You're speaking with absolutely zero knowledge about anything you're talking about.




Oh giveover. You connected France's tendency to have protests with those in the UK, when there's no connection at all. Stop blaming everything on foreigners.

Brits like you are a joke, and every day I spend in the EU I feel I have to apologise for the embarrassment people like you cause to the UK. In your head, the clip below is the EU getting the UK to sign the Brexit Agreement. "Under duress"? Give. Me. A. Break. The UK was supposed to hold all the cards weren't they? How was the UK pushed into signing something "under duress"? Ha ha ha!!!

They record your GPS location, that's all that was required, some record of them being there during 2020 or before. Macron was aware of the deal being negotiated and as the French President it's clearly up to him to relay that information. A former French MP was the lead negotiator FFS, so zero excuses there.

Didn't blame them, I said, "it's because of that type of protest..." Having said that, the yellow shirt protest clearly spread.

They put themselves under duress by trying to please Remainers and existing exporters too much. In hindsight the correct Brexit was a no deal Brexit. Any halfway fair-minded person would see the EU's NI demands as BS. The EU is a $14tr economy and they pretended they were bothered about $200m-worth of cross-border trade from NI to ROI, just to screw RoUK out of ~$1.5bn of internal trade with NI and perform a land grab. If they're not prepared to undo that, f*ck the deal and f*ck them.