Vs DCT vs Manual

[Sunny]

Well I recently had a GTR for a weekend (you can read about it here). One of the reasons I chose GTR to rent was one of the decisions I will face when choosing my next car will be DCT vs manual. I have driven couple of PDK equipped Porsche's before and wasn't too impressed, but those were all just 15 min test drives. So one of the questions I wanted to answer for myself was if I lived with a DCT a little longer, on my favorite roads, could I end up liking it? So how did that go -

My experience with DCT in GTR was definitely better than my experience with PDK in the couple of Porsches I tried (a 997.2 S and a Cayman S). The irritating lag in 1st and 2nd gear that was present in the PDK wasn't there. The shifts happen as soon as you ask for one. But on the other hand it is a noisy piece of equipment, you can literally hear and feel the gears clunking in and out. Even my wife who has no idea where the engine is in different cars asked if the engine was in the back after hearing the cacophony of noises coming from the transaxle.

My take on DCT is actually quite opposite from popularly held opinion - I feel it makes the average daily commute an even more dull and boring affair, but on the other hand, on really challenging roads like an unfamiliar piece of canyon road where just keeping the car on the road can be challenging, it is a nice assistant that lets you focus on the steering. But in the end I am not yet sold - it just takes away too much driving. But that is not the worst part, the worst part is - it makes you a bad driver. Enter a curve in a manual in the wrong gear and you are penalized heavily. This forces you to judge a corner, downshift early and enter at right speed, revs and gear. In a DCT, bah, who cares, you can throw the car into a corner with reckless abandon and make it up as you go. What? wrong gear? Just flick a finger and you fixed it. Yes, it will make heroes out of mere mortals, but bloody lazy ass heroes.

The other thing I missed sorely - the pleasure of nailing a heal-toe downshift. I am not great at it, but I get my fair share of them right (I even have a special pair of shoes for it) and when I do it is orgasmic. WIth the DCT, well, it nails it every time, but alas, there is no candy to be had. It is like doctor touching you for a medical exam vs a hot chick grinding against you at a club.

I still want to try the new PDK on 991, but for now, the only place I am going to put a check mark against paddle shifts options is GranTurismo 5.

 

[mini_cooper4]

"It is like doctor touching you for a medical exam vs a hot chick grinding against you at a club."

[BOW DOWN]

 

[Giannis]

I vote for manual, because I sense that you are after excitement, not efficiency. If what you wanted was to set a lap record, then the DCT would make your life way easier, but I think you are after the thrill of driving. And details like the heel-n-toe downshift (which I absolutely love, too) just shoot this experience to heaven. The clutch pedal and the way it's handled is a part of this thrill and it shouldn't be taken away.

You can't just reduce the process of choosing the correct gear, feeling the transmission forces as you move the lever, and the way you operate the clutch, to just pushing a button.

 

[martinbo]

So here's the thing Sunny...

I voted for DCT in a cold, hard, calculating and rational manner. There's no way that I would ordinarily recommend the archaic practice of pulling on levers and pushing of pedals to simply decrease or increase the wheels' rotational rate. It's a whole lot of physical activity for no tangible real-world benefits whatsoever and for 99% of the drivers I know, they'd be better off with an automated transmission. This is mostly due to the fact that they have no idea of what it truly takes to drive in said lever-stirring, pedal-prodding fashion. Manually matching engine rpm to geared speed? Heck, most people don't latch to this concept in a lifetime of driving whereas a DCT will make the same calculations hundreds of times every second. It is as unnecessary a practice as it is an obscure art.

...And yet for me, for me and probably people like you Sunny, it's this odd activity that is quintessential to the enjoyment of the experience of driving. It's not about having something to do - it's about having it all to do and it's about being the integral and essential component in control of that vehicle.

Sure, in an automated transmission-equipped car the driver still performs the functions of two CPUs: the go-faster-go-slower CPU and the go-left-go-right CPU but hey in a manual you get to be the which-gear-is-best CPU too. Bonus! An extra third of stuff to do if what you're doing is the favourite thing you can do - which it is for me.

Yip, it's this arm-flailing, leg-extending, ankle-bending activity that transforms driving from being a chore into being a pastime for me. Sure, I'd never think that I was good enough to want a manual over a DCT in a 458 - that wouldn't be doing justice to such a fine piece of engineering - nor would I ever consider a 911 Turbo in anything but PDK. But, give me the choice of a Turbo PDK vs an RS 4.0... well, it's obvious which one I'd opt for. It's the challenge, the potential (well at least the intention) to master such a machine that makes a manual so alluring for me; in spite of the fact that I know I'd be a better driver in a self-shifter.

 

[Deckhook]

I voted DCT purely because I seldom frequent the track now and I'm mostly stuck in traffic. I suppose it all depends on which feels more special to you on a personal level, for me up until very recently I have exclusively driven a manual so to me I don't see it as such a big deal where as a dual clutch because of it's speed and smoothness feels like a step up in not only quality and speed of shift but in technology too. But if I had been brought up driving autos all of my driving life then the appeal of a manual as an added connection to the process well then I can fully understanf the appeal.

It all depends on what floats your boat and there isn't a right or wrong answer here.

 

[Centurion]

Were the 997s you tested equipped with Sports Chrono Plus?

 

[Sunny]

But if I had been brought up driving autos all of my driving life then the appeal of a manual as an added connection to the process well then I can fully understanf the appeal.

It all depends on what floats your boat and there isn't a right or wrong answer here.

I was brought up driving manuals and never owned an automatic except on my wife's car and that is where it will stay. I think it is people who do not know how to drive a manual properly or who are not into driving that is elated at the prospect of someone else doing the shifting for them. I am sure the same people will also love it when Google driver-less car becomes available - it will be faster, smoother and more technology.

And no, there is no right or wrong answer to which gearbox is better. But there is definitely a right answer to which one makes you a better driver. So yea if there is any budding track talents out there - Sayyaf - make sure you pick a manual, you might not be the fastest, it will make you a much better driver. On that note, I recently saw a video of a track novice in his PDK equipped 991 passing everything in the track - till you watch the video from inside the car and you realize the guy has no freaking clue wtf he is doing.

Were the 997s you tested equipped with Sports Chrono Plus?

It was last year, so I frankly don't remember - but I think it did, cause I can see the little clock thingy here -

What I do remember is that it had the stupid rocker switches to shift instead of the paddles - horrible horrible thing. I can't believe Porsche is still offering it. The Cayman S had paddles which are so much more better.

 

[Centurion]

^^
From what I have rea in the past years Sports Chrono Plus because it allow the driver to engage an engine and gearbox mapping that makes PDK much more sporty and aggressive. Without it, PDK is quite a dissapointment. That's why acceleration is quite a notch faster with SCP.

 

[Mr. M]

^^
From what I have rea in the past years Sports Chrono Plus because it allow the driver to engage an engine and gearbox mapping that makes PDK much more sporty and aggressive. Without it, PDK is quite a dissapointment. That's why acceleration is quite a notch faster with SCP.

I have no complaints for a SCP-equipped PDK Turbo I tried. Probably the most adjustable and sensitive dual-clutch transmission I've tried is in a E92 M3 though, aside from the latest 458 and 12C boxes.

All's said and done, manual still for me! If I needed an auto so badly, I think Mercedes's MCT solution is compelling.

 

[MoSs]

^^
From what I have rea in the past years Sports Chrono Plus because it allow the driver to engage an engine and gearbox mapping that makes PDK much more sporty and aggressive. Without it, PDK is quite a dissapointment. That's why acceleration is quite a notch faster with SCP.

very true, when i drive with sport, the engine map tunes up becomes more responsive, but it only revs up to 7100 and the shifts are smooth and slower, and when i drive with sport plus it shifts more aggressively and revs up to the limit.

 

[330CIZHP]

Manual for me. No replacement for a manual transmission.

 

[Makini]

Considering these are still early days for DCT Transmissions, I dare say the good ol manual tranny is on its last legs. Similar to Deckhook, I spend way too much time stuck in traffic. For me the ultimate compromise is the DCT transmission. I have only experienced Volkswagen's DSG but the performance especially on the 7 speed DQ250 box is pretty close to perfection. Ok, perhaps too aggressive on take-off making threading through traffic somewhat awkward and worse still if something goes wrong with your DCT you'll have to remortgage your house to get it sorted. But ultimately we are looking at the future of transmissions.

 

[Cashmere]

Excellent piece by Jethro Bovingdon, driving a rare manual Gallardo

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[Soup]

Answer is in my avatar

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[Deckhook]

I have to admit I'm enjoying driving my son's little manual Polo though its clutch is super light compared to most high performance car, with those my left ankle just couldn't cope any more.

 

[Sayyaaf]

First of all bro sunny, am really sorry I missed reading this. How did this happen ? how is it possible I overlooked a thread written by one of my "fellow members" ? Note to my self: this is not acceptable.

bro I appreciate your input as always: but to rationalize things a bit, if its a track tool, no doubt manual is the way to go. BUT if you need to use the car occasionally going to work with stop n go kind of traffic, it can get miserable in NY or Tokyo or cities like that however, PDK or DCT came a long way YET can't yet replicate the heel n toe experience.

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I don't know man I am just like you, lost and can't decide yet. I am getting lazy n older too but that is another issue, if I let go manuals now, I will never look back I guess.

Now obviously I didn't add much by this post, since I know the final judge is you since no one can understand your situtation better, but at least let me tell you something, my next track tool, is here to stay at least the next 10+ years. so I am considering my physique here too. I guess by this rate, I will not be able to handle manuals for a long time. so a joy night ride can be annoying too. I guess PDK/DCT would suit me better. Missed a manual for too long ? on birthdays I will rent a 911 with a stick: My treat

GD luck bro, its tough one. But I'd go with something that put smile on my face each time I step out admiring the experience.

 

[Deckhook]

I don't know man I am just like you, lost and can't decide yet. I am getting lazy n older too but that is another issue, if I let go manuals now, I will never look back I guess.

I don't know your age but you will get to experience them again through your kids as I am now doing, can't recall the last time I owned a manual (not true but you get the idea) and whilst learning him to drive I've really enjoyed my brief time with the manual box again though I still wouldn't want to return to it fulltime.

It's STILL the most enjoyable pastime though only in short doses.

 

[Sayyaaf]

I don't know your age but you will get to experience them again through your kids as I am now doing, can't recall the last time I owned a manual (not true but you get the idea) and whilst learning him to drive I've really enjoyed my brief time with the manual box again though I still wouldn't want to return to it fulltime.

It's STILL the most enjoyable pastime though only in short doses.

can't say it any better. I am not old I am just ageing faster lol. Problem is, we don't have nice mountain roads, only possibility to experience twists is Yas circuit and Dubai autodrome.

 

[Giannis]

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Did you notice that in the second downshift the driver does both heel-and-toe and double-clutching? It's this little detail that doesn't let me even think of the lack of the third pedal. Imaging a manual clutch (with a cable, not hydraulically assisted) and gable operated intake butterfly (instead of drive-by-wire). It's pure sex, and one of the most important reasons I'll never let go of my old Clio.

PS. I gotta make a video like that, too. Yet, the best one would be to have my ex on board, asking me why does the car make all this noise when I downshift.

 

[jkrutch]

I think it is totally car dependent. I've been fortunate to have some amazing cars in my garage over the last several years (and drive a few I didn't own), so I can speak from experience to a few. In 2005, I purchased my first Gallardo and it was a manual tranny. I was initially concerned over the gated shifter, but loved the car enough to pull the trigger anyway. It was what I was accustomed to...a sports car with a manual. I learned to love the gated shifter quickly. That was my last manual car.

My first DCT car was the then new GT-R that I got in Aug 2007. The upshifts were great, the downshifts were fine if I wanted 1 gear, but that tranny could not downshift more than 1 year at a time. With 2 rapid clicks of the downshift paddle, 99% of the time I would get one gear. Overall I was unimpressed with that DCT unit. Not sure if it has changed over the years.

Fast forward to 2009. I moved up to the LP-560 with the e-gear tranny. It is a single clutch tranny, but it blows everything else I have driven out of the water. It grabs gears with ferocity and on downshifts, 3 rapid clicks = 3 gears of downshifts instantaneously.

A few weeks ago I was invited to drive the McLaren at Homestead Motor Speedway. It was a marketing exercise to "introduce" the MP-12 to current owners of competitive makes. The DCT unit in the McLaren (even in track mode) lacks the positive shift feel of the e-gear in the Lambo. The overall performance is definitely superior to the aging Gallardo, but the fun factor (due mostly to the tranny) is still better in the Lambo. One other "quirk" in the McLaren...the left and right paddles are connected in the center of the steering wheel. I am not sure why. That took some getting used to for sure.

At the end of my long-winded post, I would still vote DCT. I am over manual gearboxes.