My review of a 2012 BMW M3(ZCP,DCT) and a 2012 C63 AMG Coupe(P31,LSD)

[K-A]

Big LOL at bimmer hard core fans. What is this? a BMW-only club?. I know there are fanatics in evey brand, but there´s no need to do the same thing in every review that does not claim BMW is over the rainbow and the other can´t come out with better products.

Sometimes people make this forum so worse than it really is.

Well said.

 

[Deckhook]

^One, Go learn the difference between highly strung engine and a high revving engine. Maybe it will give your arguments more credibility than claiming to own everything under the sun. I own and drive a 'previous M3' for last 11 years, it is anything but high strung. After all these years, it is still a delight to rev it to the redline.

Two, how ludicrous you look when you claim you hated previous M3's "highly strung" nature so you go buy another one with a even higher redline. Just take a sec and think about how a big fcuking idiot one must be to do it.

You've owned one for 11 years, my brother-in-law has owned 3 M-powered inline 6s over the last 14 years and he has the same opinion as I that they are highly strung, the difference is he likes that. And sure you could call me an idiot for buying an M3 with an even higher rev limit but it was never the limit I had a problem with, it was the necessity to ring its neck to notice its difference over more normal stuff, assuming an extra couple of cylinders and capacity would have compensated that engine's lack of low end torque, does that belief sound all that unreasonable. The real difference between us is that I can accept someone liking the way these engines performance and your disbelief that someone couldn't.

Who sounds the more idiotic?

 

[LaArtist]

haha..this thread is comedy

The review is very nice..but the reactions are just pure comedy..

As for the way the cars are explained by the author of the thread, i can only say i agree 100%...the M3 or BMW´s in general ( minus the diesels and the new M5 i suppose) are very rev happy or low on grunt..

Ive said it a million times before..something about reving a engine beyond a certain point..gets to me like running nails on a chalk board..

Its not my idea of fun!

Thank god there are options..those who like it.. can enjoy their M3..those who dont can find something else..

 

[Gianclaudio]

Is curious, as in a recent test (posted here in GCF) the M3 had better in gear aceleration than the C63.

Still, I'll take a C63 without double thinking; it's just so badass

 

[K-A]

Quick, somebody find a Thread where a BMW doesn't "win" or get its member stroked endlessly, that doesn't turn into a flame-fest with the usual backlash and even more usual Klier snarky quip without any logical explanation as to why his emotions are in a flurry.

 

[Sunny]

You've owned one for 11 years, my brother-in-law has owned 3 M-powered inline 6s over the last 14 years and he has the same opinion as I that they are highly strung, the difference is he likes that. And sure you could call me an idiot for buying an M3 with an even higher rev limit but it was never the limit I had a problem with, it was the necessity to ring its neck to notice its difference over more normal stuff, assuming an extra couple of cylinders and capacity would have compensated that engine's lack of low end torque, does that belief sound all that unreasonable. The real difference between us is that I can accept someone liking the way these engines performance and your disbelief that someone couldn't.

Lol, is your brother in law fictitious too like your many other possessions?

And reading comprehension helps. I do not have any problem with believeing that there are people who do not like high revving engines. I do have have difficulty believing there are big enough idiots who spend 60 grand on a car with a high revving engine knowing well they do not like that. But then again I do not know you.

Who sounds the more idiotic?

Hmm, I don't know, tough one, but I think I am going to go with the idiot who claims to have brought a 60 grand car with a high revving engine despite not liking high revving engine.

 

[Deckhook]

Lol, is your brother in law fictions too like your many other possessions?

If you like I think I could get a picture with all three of them lined up together as he still owns all of them. But of course you would still disbelieve that as proof.

And reading comprehension helps. I do not have any problem with believeing that there are people who do not like high revving engines. I do have have difficulty believing there are big enough idiots who spend 60 grand on a car with a high revving engine knowing well they do not like that. But then again I do not know you.

I don't see any problem with my comprefension though I'm sure you have a problem with the understanding someone not minding high revs as long as the low revs still perform reasonably well. And why do you feel it's idiotic to try something different for a change , it's not like I haven't owned high revving engined cars in the past but I suppose back then I was a lot younger, the rose tinted glasses thingie. Oh and don't be concerned with the money I waste on cars, it's my money not yours and if I feel I can well afford it then I will continue to enjoy spreading my passion over multiple brands (not just one).

Hmm, I don't know, tough one, but I think I am going to go with the idiot who claims to have brought a 60 grand car with a high revving engine despite not liking high revving engine.

No claiming necessary, if you disbelieve I owned one then I definitely won't lose any sleep and nor will I lose sleep of you calling me an idiot. lol

P.S.
You've definitely got something I haven't which is the ability to enjoy drive an aging car on a regular basis, anything pass 3 years is my limit.

 

[Sunny]

someone not minding high revs as long as the low revs still perform reasonably well.

Well, so why don't you enlighten us a and quantify what is "reasonably well" low rev performance and other cars with high revving engine that perform "reasonably well" at low revs unlike the M3.

You've definitely got something I haven't which is the ability to enjoy drive an aging car on a regular basis, anything pass 3 years is my limit.

And you definitely have something I don't too - shamelessness.

 

[LaArtist]

Hey sunny let me ask you something..have you been 100% satisfied with all cars you've owned?
If not then i don't see how you can put deckhook down..he bought a car..and it didn't suit him.
A test drive or educating on forums and magazines only take you half the way.. you actually need to own something to decide if it fits you.
So in my book he is far from an idiot ..
Possibly abit wasteful of his money ( as he could have saved it if he understood what the car was about before getting it)..but obviously that isn't of any concern to him..so why should it to you and me?

 

[mini_cooper4]

I agree with many things that Sunny said but Artist is absolutely right in his post

 

[Sunny]

Hey sunny let me ask you something..have you been 100% satisfied with all cars you've owned?
If not then i don't see how you can put deckhook down..he bought a car..and it didn't suit him.
A test drive or educating on forums and magazines only take you half the way.. you actually need to own something to decide if it fits you.
So in my book he is far from an idiot ..
Possibly abit wasteful of his money ( as he could have saved it if he understood what the car was about before getting it)..but obviously that isn't of any concern to him..so why should it to you and me?

Except the difference is he claims he knew prior to buying it that he didn't like high revving engines and buys the car that epitomizes high revving engines this side of exotics. That would be like me knowing well I don't like teenybopper music and going and buying Justin Beiber concert tickets and then bitching about it. Yea, that would make me an idiot too. And no I am not concerned about his money. Like the saying goes - a fool and his money is easily parted.

Is curious, as in a recent test (posted here in GCF) the M3 had better in gear acceleration than the C63.

Yes, for a high revving engine M3 does offer some awesome in gear acceleration. Here is another test where it betters the latest 991 S and Corvette in in gear acceleration - http://www.germancarforum.com/internal-combustion/42335-scans-autobild-sportscars-m3-dkg-cp-vs-corvette-grand-sport-911-carrera-s-pdk.html

991 S - Flexibility (80-120 km/h) in 5th gear: 6,5 s
M3 - Flexibility (80-120 km/h) in 5th gear: 5,4 s
Vette GS Flexibility (80-120 km/h) in 5th gear: 8,1 s

Making all this 'poor' low rev performance that footie is suggesting even more absurd.

 

[martinbo]

What so many of our new internet amateurs don't realise is that the high-revving engine in the E92:

a) isn't highly strung
b) doesn't need to be revved to the dickens in order to make decent progress - you just need to be in the right gear
c) affords the opportunity for shorter gearing which results in greater torque multiplication at the wheels

The C63 does have a delicious slug of instant grunt - it's quite addictive - but for me the appeal of the M3 lies in its broader spectrum of engine character. Sure, if you're caught napping in 6th against a rolling C63 then it'll seem as if you're looking for parking. But that should never happen to members here because they're all master drivers no?

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

What so many of our new internet amateurs don't realise is that the high-revving engine in the E92:

a) isn't highly strung
b) doesn't need to be revved to the dickens in order to make decent progress - you just need to be in the right gear
c) affords the opportunity for shorter gearing which results in greater torque multiplication at the wheels

The C63 does have a delicious slug of instant grunt - it's quite addictive - but for me the appeal of the M3 lies in its broader spectrum of engine character. Sure, if you're caught napping in 6th against a rolling C63 then it'll seem as if you're looking for parking. But that should never happen to members here because they're all master drivers no?

The S65 is a true engineering masterpiece. Each engine has it's own unique trait. The noise the S65 when it's winding up is breathe taking. I think it is safe to say that the engines of these cars have completely different characteristics.

 

[SKY]

In case that is aimed at me I don't know what you are getting at. I am absolutely fine with his HotIce's review or that he prefer's C63. I don't think BMW is over any rainbow or cloud, it is just another manufacturer like any other. I even don't get Klier's stupid post and wish he would just shut up if he can't make an intelligent argument. What I also don't get is bs statements that follow like how BMW is somehow suddenly loosing it cause of some random review by random guy in internet. Is it really that tough to make intelligent arguments?

No sir, I´m not aiming at you nor anyone in particular, I don´t like personal attacks, but I´d like a little bit more of comprehension with other´s opinion.

 

[LaArtist]

What so many of our new internet amateurs don't realise is that the high-revving engine in the E92:

a) isn't highly strung
b) doesn't need to be revved to the dickens in order to make decent progress - you just need to be in the right gear
c) affords the opportunity for shorter gearing which results in greater torque multiplication at the wheels

The C63 does have a delicious slug of instant grunt - it's quite addictive - but for me the appeal of the M3 lies in its broader spectrum of engine character. Sure, if you're caught napping in 6th against a rolling C63 then it'll seem as if you're looking for parking. But that should never happen to members here because they're all master drivers no?

Some of those so called amateurs has actually owned or reviewed the car..and im sure they tried the right gear formula..but still feels that it needs to be revved to get the best out of it.
So go figure..

 

[martinbo]

Some of those so called amateurs has actually owned or reviewed the car

Have they now? Emphasis on "Some" should be changed to "very few".

..and im sure they tried the right gear formula..but still feels that it needs to be revved to get the best out of it.
So go figure..

Of course, like I said, we've only got master drivers here at GCF. And yes, certainly it needs to be revved to get the best out of it: what else would you make a NA 8400 rpm free-revving engine for?
No question, the M3 needs to be worked to get seriously illegal pace out of it but it's not like it's a dead duck below 4000 rpm in 3rd gear. The C63... it simply delivers a different experience. Would I criticise either? Never.

 

[LaArtist]

^some as in deckhook and Hot Ice..
But yes by far out of all people who has an opinion about the M3 on boards..only a fraction actually ever been in one..let alone owned it

I would never criticize the M3 either.. its a different experience..

But i like more Grunt..the author of the thread to.. and it seems the dude that owned it to..

What is funny is the fact that some of the BMW fans reaction to their taste is in line with a personal insult.

But hey..what else is new

 

[Deckhook]

Of course, like I said, we've only got master drivers here at GCF. And yes, certainly it needs to be revved to get the best out of it: what else would you make a NA 8400 rpm free-revving engine for?
No question, the M3 needs to be worked to get seriously illegal pace out of it but it's not like it's a dead duck below 4000 rpm in 3rd gear. The C63... it simply delivers a different experience. Would I criticise either? Never.

It's all relative the performance of the overall rev range but Hot|Ice and myself are not alone in feeling the M3v8 is short of grunt low down compare to how well it performs in it's last 2K of it's rev range this is hardly a critcism to say you ended up disliking this type of delivery as it's as much personal taste as a car's styling and nor I (speaking for myself) disagree with someone preferring this style of engine which leads me on to why should anyone feel the need to call another people an idiot for buying an M3 and not liking?

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

I don't believe I put the M3 down in my review. I think I even pointed out that it is the drivers car of choice but the C63 is just more fun, more of the time. " Two great cars that go about doing the same thing, just in a different way"

Of course that's just me. I don't like having to work the engine for daily driving. The DCT does help, though.

 

[K-A]

^Precisely, I wouldn't call someone odd for like it but to me as it approach the limiter I can't think of many engine notes that were more annoying. Quite the opposite to the Porsche 6 cylinder engines which sing in my opinion, clearly the layout makes a world of difference.

I had quite a few M3's and an M-Coupe in my "crew" of friends back in the day, and as much as I otherwise loved the E46 M3 (not so much the M-Coupe at all ), those engine sounds were absolutely atrocious to me, being in the car and going WOT made me want to open the door and jump out!