My review of a 2012 BMW M3(ZCP,DCT) and a 2012 C63 AMG Coupe(P31,LSD)

[K-A]

AMG 6.2L V8 > M3 Motor.

 

[330CIZHP]

Which is one the salient points of a high revving NA engine (especially when coupled with a manual) - it involves the driver and rewards you for the effort.

X 2

Exactly. Great to see someone raising that point.

Driving is all about interaction and through interaction the car rewarding the driver back both from a visceral standpoint/audible standpoint and connection standpoint. High-revving engines are designed to do exactly that. To give a race car like feel on the road.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

X 2

Exactly. Great to see someone raising that point.

Driving is all about interaction and through interaction the car rewarding the driver back both from a visceral standpoint/audible standpoint and connection standpoint. High-revving engines are designed to do exactly that. To give a race car like feel on the road.

I can interact with the car by mashing the throttle and holding on for dear life. While that may be acceptable on the track, that's not so on the road.

 

[Sunny]

I will never be able to feel that reward when I am driving in stop and go traffic..

Well, maybe it is me, but I am not trying to feel rewarded in "stop and go traffic". And yes, if you belong to that group of people, you are right, M3 is not the right ve-hi-cle for that.

 

[martinbo]

Hold on a minute... aren't you the same Hot|Ice who in another thread is claiming how BMW M have lost their way, are deviating from the traditional recipe and thus alienating you as a fan of BMWs? So put in other words it's like saying: I don't like BMW for not sticking to the traditional formula for M car engines, which in any case, I don't care for much because I prefer the more accessible nature of the M156 in daily driving?

Bad BMW for not sticking with the M high-rev NA formula! Bah, never liked it anyway...

Huh?

What an odd and conflicted standpoint.

AMG 6.2L V8 > M3 Motor Engine.

Fixed for you...

In all seriousness, yes, I believe the M156/159 engine range to be superior in all of its ubiquitous applications in sports saloons, wagons, SUVs, luxo-barges and grand-tourers to the BMW S65.
Of course, in isolation: M156 > S65. However, an S65 in an M3 is just that much more special. It's a bespoke engine made specifically for the M3 and only the M3. The S65 is not a jack of all trades, but, in an M3 it is masterful.

 

[Mr Robert]

Hold on a minute... aren't you the same Hot|Ice who in another thread is claiming how BMW M have lost their way, are deviating from the traditional recipe and thus alienating you as a fan of BMWs? So put in other words it's like saying: I don't like BMW for not sticking to the traditional formula for M car engines, which in any case, I don't care for much because I prefer the more accessible nature of the M156 in daily driving?

Bad BMW for not sticking with the M high-rev NA formula! Bah, never liked it anyway...

Huh?

He's having a hard time adjusting. He liked the fact that he didn't like the BMW way of doing things

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Hold on a minute... aren't you the same Hot|Ice who in another thread is claiming how BMW M have lost their way, are deviating from the traditional recipe and thus alienating you as a fan of BMWs? So put in other words it's like saying: I don't like BMW for not sticking to the traditional formula for M car engines, which in any case, I don't care for much because I prefer the more accessible nature of the M156 in daily driving?

Bad BMW for not sticking with the M high-rev NA formula! Bah, never liked it anyway...

Huh?

What an odd and conflicted standpoint.

Fixed for you...

In all seriousness, yes, I believe the M156/159 engine range to be superior in all of its ubiquitous applications in sports saloons, wagons, SUVs, luxo-barges and grand-tourers to the BMW S65.
Of course, in isolation: M156 > S65. However, an S65 in an M3 is just that much more special. It's a bespoke engine made specifically for the M3 and only the M3. The S65 is not a jack of all trades, but, in an M3 it is masterful.

That's me! Read back what I said a few posts back. The S65 what I think to be BMW's best engine. I love it, honestly. Just because you have to work it a little for DD duties doesn't mean I am not a fan. I still preach that BMW M has gone looney, but that doesn't mean I don't think thet makeamazing vehicles. the e92 may very well be the last true M car we see.

 

[VoltageLeak]

That's all hunky dory, but how am I suppose to be rewarded when I can't get past 4th gear and 3k rpm's in the city? I simply stated that the 6.2 has more accessible power for day to day driving. I don't care how the S65 rewards me. I will never be able to feel that reward when I am driving in stop and go traffic. The fact of the matter is for daily driving the 6.2 is more fun. Now, get on a track and that all changes. With that said, I still think both cars are absolutely awesome in their own regard. You are lucky to own either vehicle because they are both truly beasts.

I've put 10,000 miles on my E90 M3 and while I admire what the car is capable of, I haven't fallen in love with it. The issue with the disparity, or perceived disparity in engine performance below 5000 rpm vs. above is real. Mind you, I think the car is plenty fast from 3000 rpm and up but when driving within the confines of urban traffic, you do get the sensation of an amusement park ride stopped short just as it was getting good. There is also the engine warmup issue. You don't even have (safe) access to that wonderful 8250rpm redline for the first five miles or so of driving. Throw in a very lurchy drivetrain at cold start and you do not have the recipe for instant gratification.

The chassis, on the other hand, is always brilliant. I can't help but reference the Top Gear bit about being able to place the M3 well enough out of a fast turn to crush an apple where the C63 savages it's rear tires as it struggles to regain the line. The sensation I get taking corners in the M3 in corners is one of supreme confidence, as if I could repeatedly crush the apple, or, merely clip the stem if I wanted to.

So the car is a little bit of a conundrum for me. It is a completely sorted out and versatile machine but not perfectly suited for the role I've chosen for it and the roads I typically drive on (wet, coarsely paved, overrun with Toyota Prii).

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

I've put 10,000 miles on my E90 M3 and while I admire what the car is capable of, I haven't fallen in love with it. The issue with the disparity, or perceived disparity in engine performance below 5000 rpm vs. above is real. Mind you, I think the car is plenty fast from 3000 rpm and up but when driving within the confines of urban traffic, you do get the sensation of an amusement park ride stopped short just as it was getting good. There is also the engine warmup issue. You don't even have (safe) access to that wonderful 8250rpm redline for the first five miles or so of driving. Throw in a very lurchy drivetrain at cold start and you do not have the recipe for instant gratification.

The chassis, on the other hand, is always brilliant. I can't help but reference the Top Gear bit about being able to place the M3 well enough out of a fast turn to crush an apple where the C63 savages it's rear tires as it struggles to regain the line. The sensation I get taking corners in the M3 in corners is one of supreme confidence, as if I could repeatedly crush the apple, or, merely clip the stem if I wanted to.

So the car is a little bit of a conundrum for me. It is a completely sorted out and versatile machine but not perfectly suited for the role I've chosen for it and the roads I typically drive on (wet, coarsely paved, overrun with Toyota Prii).

Very well said. The 'oomph' om the C63 is certainly gratifying on the street but it's not as precise a the M3 is in the twisty stuff.

 

[mini_cooper4]

I see a lot of drag "racers" here and on the streets
Is it really that much fun for people to accelerate ?
I don't feel that thrill since I was a kid... now it's only the corners that still give me the thrill...
Probably doing 0-200 in 7.5 seconds almost every summer day makes you get used to it and somehow boring