M3/M4 BMW M3 V8; Manual or DCT?

[CorpusCallosum]

DCT please - when your driving to work at 4.30am or coming home after a 20hr shift, the last thing you want to do is change gears!!!

And for weekends when you feel like having more control, DCT offers the best of both worlds!!!

 

[PanterroR]

Have to hear/read some tests with DCT to make my judgment. But such advanced engine i'm sure works better with advanced tranny...

Though nothing can substitute the real pleasure of a manual...

 

[klier]

100% M DCT for me. I love my SMG, and this is much better.

 

[bmer]

I've read too many mags complaining about M3's manual so I believe DCT will be better.

 

[Tarek]

I've read too many mags complaining about M3's manual so I believe DCT will be better.

Really? what did they complain about? i always thought that BMW makes one of the best manuals.

 

[bmer]

Really? what did they complain about?

I'm too lazy to go through all those dozens of M3 tests to find which ones complained about it but they've said that it's not as smooth as it should (also too long distance between the "slots", not enough feel) . In (a report from the international M3 press test drive in Marbella, Spain) a local car mag they say that from the first meters of the test drive they thought something was wrong. They were surprised that the transmission wasn't as smooth as what they're used to regarding the 3 Series. They could also hear unpleasant sounds coming from the gearbox when shifting. They thought it was only the particular test car they had and reported it to BMW representatives. But after running checks on the car they said there was nothing wrong with the car. They also said that they had heard similar remarks from other journalists.

i always thought that BMW makes one of the best manuals.

They still do. This problem only seems to apply to the M3.

 

[Zafiro]

They still do. This problem only seems to apply to the M3.

As you know I have driven the new M3 V8 and I kid you not when I say the gearbox in my car felt better than the gearbox in the M3 I drove. But remember that the M3 I drove was an abused swedish presscar.

The reason for the complaints in other reviews could also be that the M3 didnt have enough miles on the speedo. The 6-gearbox in my babybimmer wasnt exactly smooth and it was also a little bit sluggish in the beginning but now after the car been driven in properly and with 870 mil the gearbox is getting better and better.
So the reasons for the complaints in M3 could be that the car wasnt driven in properly.

Would be intresting if someone who has owned his M3 V8 for some time could give us an update on the gearbox

 

[coolraoul]

Yeah, this explains the rather cold remarks on the M3 V8;
The gearbox is not the best BMW ever did, and the steering is better in the C63 AMG... This is why the reviews were enthusiastic on the C63, which was better than expected, and cold on the M3, wich was not as good as expected.

Of course, both are fabulous, and it seems the M3 is still faster and more precise than the AMG, but it is less fabulous than the e46 was. It is no more the far better car, now both are equally fabulous but in a different way.

Anyway, the fact that the C63 is not available in manual is its only flaw to my eyes...because again, for me a sportcar is manual.

 

[Sunny]

Yeah, this explains the rather cold remarks on the M3 V8;
The gearbox is not the best BMW ever did, and the steering is better in the C63 AMG... This is why the reviews were enthusiastic on the C63, which was better than expected, and cold on the M3, wich was not as good as expected.

Of course, both are fabulous, and it seems the M3 is still faster and more precise than the AMG, but it is less fabulous than the e46 was. It is no more the far better car, now both are equally fabulous but in a different way.

Anyway, the fact that the C63 is not available in manual is its only flaw to my eyes...because again, for me a sportcar is manual.

Only the initial impressions when the cars were driven separately at different places said the C63 probably has better steering. Both Evo and Top Gear when they tested the C63 and M3 at the same time at the same place, said M3 has the better steering.

 

[coolraoul]

From what i've read, I would say the C63 is an instant winner. It wins you from the first moment you spent in the car. You fell in love immediately with it.
It also feels much faster than the M3, more raw and brutal, really an impressive car.

The M3 on the other hand, seems to be less impressive at the beginning. It is only when you drive it longer, spent some time in it, that you begin to love it. it is also more refined, more sensible, more about a pure driver car.

In fact the C63 feels faster and more raw, the M3 is generally a bit faster but feels more civilized.

So these are two equally fabulous cars, with their differences. And this is the big sensation, because with the e46/W203 the M3 was really a class above the Mercedes. In terms of feelings mainly.

 

[coolraoul]

But back on topic, manual or DCT...

My problem with the Dual Clutch, is also that they are not constant.
Like I said for the DSG, it is very fast and smooth. However, it sometimes is really very fast, sometimes a tad slower and less supple. Sometimes you don't feel the gearchange at all, sometimes you feel something. No big deal in a Passat, where the DSG really impresses.

However in a sportcar, on a track, I think it can be quite of a disadvantage not to know exactly how the gear will be changed.

All this comes from the second clutch. One is for 1-3-5 (-7?), the other for 2-4-6.
You are in 2nd at full throttle: logicly you soon will call the 3rd, not the 1rd, so the second clutch prepares the 3rd; then you call the 3rd: it is ready, it is super-fast. But if then you brake hard and call the 1st, it is not ready; it will be a bit longer.
This, in the DSG, explains why the gears are not all as fast and smooth.

I don't know if the M3 will solve this problem, that on a track can be annoying. I think, if you are in 2nd at fall throttle, the gearbox will prepare the next gear only when you reach the good regime: if you are at 6000rpm, it will prepare the 3rd, because you are less likely to call the 1st if you are at 6000rpm in 2nd. If then you brake hard the regime will fall, say at 4500rpm, then the gear will disengage the prepared 3rd and prepare the 1st instead...

This way the prepared gear would almost always be the right one, so the gearchange would always be as fast and as brutal or smooth.
This is already what the DSG does, but maybe less finely, less precisely?

However, this would mean that the gearbox would be at all time busy preparing another speed...Always working hard...So more power needed, more consumption...maybe less lifetime, because it would change or prepare millions of gears...

So I don't know. If someone can explain the logic used by this DCT...or maybe correct me if I am wrong with the way a Dual Clutch Transmission works? If BMW found a solution to this problem?

 

[ateekt]

I'll go for M-DCT something new & sensational from my heart-beat brand ...!

 

[Cashmere]

Manual because its definitely more enjoyable to drive then pushing paddles.