BMW E82 1er M Coupe (Spy pics & Info)

[Mr Robert]

...and making chip-chops of the current M V8 would open up for an I4 TT for the next 1M... not this one. Or a V4?

 

[martinbo]

...and making chip-chops of the current M V8 would open up for an I4 TT for the next 1M.

I don't understand what you mean by this herr doctor?

 

[Mr Robert]

Cut it off down the middle, not just a couple of cylinders in either end!

 

[klier]

And yet everyone thinks it's me that turns discussion that way. In reality I try to avoid the comparisons where ever possible because of this very point.

Me too, but it's to no avail; you're Audi and I am BMW....and it's because of ourselves that we're viewed this way....

Cut it off down the middle, not just a couple of cylinders in either end!

That's impossible because if they cut a cylinder on each end, you would end up with a V4, and those don't exist as far as I know in any car...

 

[Human]

This will become interesting.

BMW developing and using a V6? I would not say it's impossible and will never happen BUT....I honestly do not think that to be the case, neither is there any news form BMW Group or readying customers from BMW Group's side on the "Big Change".

Given the development cost of a V6 and the expertise + money and recourses that already went into the development of i4 TT and i6 TT engines, why would BMW change?

I am not the expert although it's logical that the Body Shell has to be changed to accommodate a V6 and what other expensive changes and re-tooling has to be done to keep the 50:50 weight distribution etc.?

The F01's + F10's + X1 and new X3 are made for I4, I6 and V8's depending on the model. What changes does that bring to the body shell and suspension setup and what more? Now all of the sudden a V6....just does not make ANY sense in the 'economy of scale' dept.

 

[martinbo]

Cut it off down the middle, not just a couple of cylinders in either end!

Ah... I see what you mean...

Me too, but it's to no avail; you're Audi and I am BMW....and it's because of ourselves that we're viewed this way....

Big fan of BMW eh klier? Hmph, I'd never have guessed.

That's impossible because if they cut a cylinder on each end, you would end up with a V4, and those don't exist as far as I know in any car...

Unlikely, but not impossible. We have seen the V4 configuration in some Honda bikes and, if I recall correctly, on a Ducati superbike(?).

 

[Mr Robert]

That's impossible because if they cut a cylinder on each end, you would end up with a V4, and those don't exist as far as I know in any car...

Not each end, either, as in whichever, not both

No, I don't think there are any V4 powered cars on the market today. But there were:

The SAAB V4

Glorious sound and much more exotic than an el cheapo grande V6

 

[footie]

Me too, but it's to no avail; you're Audi and I am BMW....and it's because of ourselves that we're viewed this way....

I must admit I hate being classed like this because I have owned numerous brands and models over the years and don't really have any true loyalities to any brand in particular, I appreciate fine engineering which is why I like all things German but I will openly admit to having a soft spot for Audi because I personally prefer AWD to RWD.

 

[martinbo]

Given the development cost of a V6 and the expertise + money and recourses that already went into the development of i4 TT and i6 TT engines, why would BMW change?

Those resources are less significant compared with what BMW put into the reverse-flowed V8.

I am not the expert although it's logical that the Body Shell has to be changed to accommodate a V6 and what other expensive changes and re-tooling has to be done to keep the 50:50 weight distribution etc.?

Actually no, because the inline six is longer and heavier than a comparable V6 (primarily due to the long crankshaft and requirement for a more rigid, thus heavier, block) it's harder for BMW to achieve the hallowed 50:50 weight distribution and why they tuck the inline 6 further back in the engine bay. This makes packaging of the interior a further problem. A lighter, shorter V6 is much easier to package in the longitudinal orientation. The re-tooling needed to accomodate the only V8 in the E90 line-up didn't seem to deter BMW when it came to the current M3.

The F01's + F10's + X1 and new X3 are made for I4, I6 and V8's depending on the model. What changes does that bring to the body shell and suspension setup and what more?

Those are today's cars - we're talking about the future of BMW, which, we all know consists of efficient forced induction inline 3 and 4 cylinder engines in the F30. Now, talking about packaging, tell me that in the context of the aforementioned engines which would be easier to subsequently package? Yip a V6 is just a wider 3 cylinder.

Now all of the sudden a V6....just does not make ANY sense in the 'economy of scale' dept.

Makes much more sense actually. We've seen such modularity from a V8 down to a V6 before with Mercedes Benz and even BMW themselves took the S85 V10 and cut it down to eight cylinders in the S65. Economies of scale? Take the new reverse-flow V8 and turn it into a V6 - there'll be far greater economies of scale than we'll ever see with the Inline 6.

No, it's not mechanical, packaging or economies of scale limitation that will deter BMW from moving to a V6 for the next M3. If they don't go it'll be purely as a result of consumer sentiment.

 

[footie]

No, it's not mechanical, packaging or economies of scale limitation that will deter BMW from moving to a V6 for the next M3. If they don't go it'll be purely as a result of consumer sentiment.

My sentiment exactly.

 

[Mr Robert]

And if consumer sentiment is the only thing keeping BMW from moving down to a V6 instead of an I6, they will move. The image buyers don't know and/or don't care.

 

[footie]

And if consumer sentiment is the only thing keeping BMW from moving down to a V6 instead of an I6, they will move. The image buyers don't know and/or don't care.

Are you saying that it's the people who truly appreciate the engineering and the car's abilities that are against such a possible change? They are the ones which should be all on for it as there are genuine engineering reasons for such a switch, that would not only benefit packaging but ultimate led to a better handling car, something that is paramount to BMW, especially an M car.

 

[Mr Robert]

I think it works both ways. The ignorant image buyers doesn't care and those who only seeks the most efficient and modern solution will embrace it. Those who use their hart in buying a car will care.

I know what I want in a car but it is the heart first. Maybe I'll be the only one who will never buy a V6 BMW.

 

[Levi68]

The youth of the day are mostly unaware of the M3's heritage, to them it's always been an in-line 6 and only recently switched to a v8. I'm of the belief that there's more to an M car than just it's engine.

You contradict yourself. In this way then why not call the 1 Series by M GmbH just M1 and follow the line up: M3, M5, M6?




M is no more Motorsport but Marketing. FI M cars will bring money. Many got the 335i because it is simply more practical for daily drive, and still very fast. M5 E60 sold many units, yet having an uncomfortable 7 SMG gear box. The M5 F10 will sell much more, as it will be faster and still more comfortable for daily use. (I did not try it, but we know that the M5 is going to be a "2 in 1"). What made M sell cars, "was" naturally aspirated high reving engines and rear wheel drive.

What will be an argument to by the M3?
Mercedes C-Coupé AMG: 3.5l V6 Biturbo, RWD, AMG Speedshift
Audi RS5: 3.0l V6 Bi-Turbo, AWD, S-Tronic
BMW M4/M3 Coupé: 3.0l V6 Twin-Turbo, RWD, M Sport-Automatic

Engine? All are V6. If the M had I6 it would be different, also sound otherwise, it would keep its BMW roots and distinguish from the others. RWD? The Merc also has RWD, and Mercedes has improved its grip and balance? FI? All have two turbo's. Transmission? All are automatic gear boxes. Actual RS5 and C63 AMG, M5/M6 E6x, X5M/X6M, M5/M6 F1x are not available with manual transmission. Why should the M3 be? It is not a 911 GT3! (irony) Design? I, a die-hard BMW fan, do admit that Audi and Mercedes also look very good, if maybe not slightly better.
For me all these cars are the same. But it should be so:
AMG: monster, luxurious, "the best"
RS: multifunctional, exclusive, modern
M: precision tool, simple, racing spirit

BMW M3 V6 2 TURBO AUTO = FAIL

In this way call the BMW 3 Series Coupé a BMW 4 Series Coupé and the BMW M3 call it BMW M4, and so close the the BOOK OF M3.

 

[klier]

And if consumer sentiment is the only thing keeping BMW from moving down to a V6 instead of an I6, they will move. The image buyers don't know and/or don't care.

By that logic BMW would have called the 1 M coupé -or whatever- simply M1

M is no more Motorsport but Marketing.

You're brainwashed by Just_Me's lame signature.....

 

[Mr Robert]

BMW M3 V6 2 TURBO AUTO = FAIL

I would call it a total fail. But that is just me. Others would love to finally not have to change gears themselves or enjoy a perfectly smooth engine.

In this way call the BMW 3 Series Coupé a BMW 4 Series Coupé and the BMW M3 call it BMW M4, and so close the the BOOK OF M3.

No, the power of image is to great.

 

[bmwblog]

We are hearing a six-cylinder engine also for next M3...

 

[Mr Robert]

We are hearing a six-cylinder engine also for next M3...

It almost has to be. Question is, what layout?

 

[south]

We are hearing a six-cylinder engine also for next M3...

Good to know that the M boss didn't lie about the only fact he gave away regarding the next M3.


Best regards,
south

 

[Levi68]

Mercedes's image is build upon the S-Class. But today it is not enough, so they brought out, first the SLR McLaren and now the SLS AMG. Audi's image is built upon Quattro. But today it was also not enough, so they brought out the R8. BMW's image is built upon the M3 (not the M1 of the 70's built by Lamborghini), and this image is so strong that till today BMW still does not have any SLS AMG and R8 rival and BMW does not seem to need any. But if the M3 gets a V6, BMW's image will colapse. Then they really will have to build M7 (7 Series Sedan), M8 (8 Series Coupé/Convertible) and M10 (supercar).