BMW 7er appeal

[K-A]

Ah. So I'd assume one with a pre-facelit could do a straight swap for the LCI grilles? Somehow the less slats break up the look which allows the grille to look less massive and in your face I think.

 

[Merc1]

Plot lost, mate. You don't get what I'm saying and if I have to write it down again it can be considered as a spam.
In the quote we were discussing "S-Class segment" was meant to mean "S,SL,CL,SLS" and I've explained why already.
You are quoting something else which has nothing to do with the previous quote.
Let's not continue as I see no point to do so

Right and you lost it. I get what you're saying, that they are grouping the cars together, GOT IT. The S/SL/SLS/CL as the "segment", but the problem is that you aren't reading what the actual press release said. Why the hell would they say the S-Class is the best selling sedan in the segment if it is the only sedan in their own made up segment? Does that make sense to you. You just can't admit that you were wrong. True, Mercedes is using the word "segment" in two different contexts, but if you actually read what it says you'll see that you were wrong.

M

 

[Merc1]

Think, M, think!

I know you can do it!

The sales figures quoted in your latest post (61,294 units) are for the entire S-class segment (S+CL+SL+SLS), not for S-class sedan only. Mind they sold 65,128 S-class sedan in Jan-Dec 2012. Do you really think that they only sold 4,000 S-class sedans in the last 3 months?

Don't blame me for Daimler's mess in the sales recording & reporting. They issue confusing reports, and be sure I'm more aware of it than you are.

Btw ... Yes, they claim S-class is best-selling luxury sedan. They do have some rough intel on rival's sales but in such close race I would rather wait for official figures from BMW. And be sure the sales gap will be tiny. Just like in 2011 when S-class outsold 7er for 195 units only worldwide!

No they weren't. Read the text. It clearly says S-Class sedan. Do you really think that Mercedes couldn't sell 4000 S-Class sedans in the last 3 months of the year, that is only 1333 S-Class sedans a month for the entire world!

In the U.S. they sold 1110 in just one month, DEC 2012 so of course they sould sell 4K in 3 months worldwide.

"Don't blame me for Daimler's mess in the sales recording & reporting. They issue confusing reports, and be sure I'm more aware of it than you are."

Not blaming you for that, but if you would just read what it says and absorb it free from a pro-BMW agenda it becomes clear as day what it says. You didn't answer my last question either:

WHY WOULD THEY SAY THE S-CLASS SEDAN HAS BEEN IN THE TOP SPOT IN ITS SEGMENT IF THEY ARE COUNTING IT AMONG THE SL/CL/SLS, IT WOULD BE THE ONLY SEDAN IN SUCH A "SEGMENT"!!!! DUH. THIS IS COMMON SENSE, READING COMPREHENSION 101. OF COURSE IT WOULD BE THE TOP SEDAN IN A SEGMENT THAT DIDN'T INCLUDE ANY OTHER SEDANS, SL/SLS/CL.

Answer that?


As far as Mercedes knowing, do you think they would publish such a statement if they didn't check it out first? Accept it. It will make you feel better. So what if in 2011 it was 195 units, if you were outsold you were outsold. Don't be a cry baby.


M

 

[EnI]

Marcus, stop acting stupidly, please.

MB sold 65,128 S-class sedans in entire 2012 worldwide: as stated in latest Daimler's press release.So, yes - that's the figure for S-class SEDAN only.

While in the press release Hofmeister posted Daimler stated 61,294 units sold from Jan to Sept 2012 - for the entire MB "S-class segment" which also includes CL, SL & SLS.

I'm trying to tell you & prove you that MB sells more than 1,333 S-class sedans per month (so more than 4,000 units in 3 months) - and that 65,128 (Jan-Sept sales = 9-month sales) is to high to include S-class sedan sales only.

That would mean MB had sold 7,236 units/month of S-class sedan in average in the first 9 months of 2012, and only 1,333 cars per months in the last 3 months. Utter nonsense!

The total S-class sedan sales figure for 2012 worldwide tells you MB sold 5,427 S-class sedans per month in average worldwide. Quite a difference from either 7,236 or even more 1,333.

THINK, Marcuse! Use your brain! Use some logic finally.


PS: the issue was (claims based on data from Hofmeister's post) that S-class had outsold 7er for almost 12,000 units in Jan-Sept 2012 period. And I'm proving you that hasn't been the case at all. 7er is on par with S-class sedan sales wise - that has always been the case when S-class was in the last years of its life-cycle. Surely when the new S-class is introduced S-class will outsell 7er with more sovereign margin - especially since 7er is in its 2nd half of its life-cycle. Sure S-class is still THE king but 7er is very close & even outselling S-class in some points of life-cycle. Years ago the sales figure ratio was 2:1 for S-class!!!!

So ... The initial claim of this thread that 7er has no enough appeal & losing sales to its rivals is POINTLESS. F01 is the most successful 7er ever. 7er is gaining the appeal, not losing it. It's S-class that's sharply losing its market share to rivals in the last years.

 

[Merc1]

Marcus, are you actually an idiot, or just pretending to be one?

MB sold 65,128 S-class sedans in entire 2012 worldwide: as stated in latest Daimler's press release.So, yes - that's the figure for S-class SEDAN only.

While in the press release Hofmeister posted Daimler stated 61,294 units sold from Jan to Sept 2012 - for the entire MB "S-class segment" which also includes CL, SL & SLS.

I'm trying to tell you & prove you that MB sells more than 1,333 S-class sedans per month (so more than 4,000 units in 3 months) - and that 65,128 (Jan-Sept sales = 9-month sales) is to high to include S-class sedan sales only.

That would mean MB had sold 7,236 units/month of S-class sedan in average in the first 9 months of 2012, and only 1,333 cars per months in the last 3 months. Utter nonsense!

The total S-class sedan sales figure for 2012 worldwide tells you MB sold 5,427 S-class sedans per month in average worldwide. Quite a difference from either 7,236 or even more 1,333.

THINK, Marcuse! Use your brain! Use some logic finally.


PS: the issue was (claims based on data from Hofmeister's post) that S-class had outsold 7er for almost 12,000 units in Jan-Sept 2012 period. And I'm proving you that hasn't been the case at all. 7er is on par with S-class sedan sales wise - that has always been the case when S-class was in the last years of its life-cycle. Surely when the new S-class is introduced S-class will outsell 7er with more sovereign margin - especially since 7er is in its 2nd half of its life-cycle. Sure S-class is still THE king but 7er is very close & even outselling S-class in some points of life-cycle. Years ago the sales figure ratio was 2:1 for S-class!!!! So ...

Sure if you quit acting like a fool.

Mercedes also announced that S-Class production is winding down in the last quarter of the year:


http://www.autoevolution.com/news/m...uction-due-to-low-demand-in-europe-50662.html

"This will result in them building some 8,000 cars less, in the fourth quarter of 2012."

So again, just because they built a certain number for the first part of the year doesn't mean they did in the last quarter.

So again, and now again, try again.

None of this changes the FACT that you and Scott are two of the biggest bullshiters on this board. Who cares is the 7 is on par with the S-Class? That wasn't the debate. The debate started when he said that the 7 is still the best selling car in the segment, and it wasn't up to a point. Nor does it appear that the 7 outsold the S-Class for the entire year. Get over it.

So ... The initial claim of this thread that 7er has no enough appeal & losing sales to its rivals is POINTLESS. F01 is the most successful 7er ever. 7er is gaining the appeal, not losing it. It's S-class that's sharply losing its market share to rivals in the last years.

Lose the sales argument, now you switch over the market share angle. Typical. Yet come this time next year you will be the same one crying that the S-Class is newer so it is supposed to crush the 7er in sales. Also, you just answered your own post, the current S is in its last years so of course it will lose market share to a FL 7er and newer A8.

M

 

[EnI]

Marcus, you are still WRONG! Those figures (61,294 units) weren't for the S-class sedan only, but also include SL, CL & SLS sales (the entire "S-class segment").

Check the sales reports & do same math ... the difference between total 2012 S-class sedan sales & alleged Jan-Sept S-class sedan sales (as you claim) is 3,834 units.

In US market alone MB sold of 3,580 S-class sedans in the last 3 months of 2012. 1,096 in October, 1,374 in November, and 1,110 in December.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-record-october-sales-of-23978-176817151.html
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...d-with-november-sales-of-32649-181876921.html
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...us-volume-with-sales-of-305072-185567602.html

3,834 - 3,580 = 254 , or 85/month

So, if your claim is true (that Jan-Sept worldwide sales figures of 61,294 are sales of S-class sedan only) then MB sold 254 units (or 85/month in average) in all non-US markets worldwide in the last 3 months of 2012. Yeah, right.

I can bring you Geman figures as well for at least October & November, where you can see MB sold more than 254 cars there in a single month. Not to mention 3 months, and other markets worldwide.


YOU ARE SOOOOOO WRONG!!!!

 

[deity]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the 7er's appeal right now. In my opinion, the facelift has really transformed this car from a slightly bloated looking thing to a proud, strong, and classy flagship. The B7 is quite likely one of my favorite BMWs of all time. The 'high' looking headlights have often been critiqued, but I seriously love the way they look. The condescending, nonchalant glare is one I'm really, really enjoying. In fact, I would say I prefer the 7er over the S Class right now. The rear lights, now more so than ever, look fantastic.

Let's be serious here guys...regardless of what the 'S-Class segment' means or whether or not the 7er is the sales leader, it doesn't really matter. Right now the 'segment' is leading 7er sales by 17k. Take the SLS', SL's, and CL's out of the picture (if they are in the picture), and you have a VERY close race between the two flagships. Or, if the S Class is actually outselling the 7er, does that mean its the more capable vehicle? Absolutely not. Again, I can't stress this enough. While sales might be a good indicator of how well a car is received, I think we should be passionate enough about engineering and the cars themselves not to care.

Ah..the lovely B7

 

[Merc1]

Marcus, you are still WRONG! Those figures (61,294 units) weren't for the S-class sedan only, but also include SL, CL & SLS sales (the entire "S-class segment").

Check the sales reports & do same math ... the difference between total 2012 S-class sedan sales & alleged Jan-Sept S-class sedan sales (as you claim) is 3,834 units.

In US market alone MB sold of 3,580 S-class sedans in the last 3 months of 2012. 1,096 in October, 1,374 in November, and 1,110 in December.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...-record-october-sales-of-23978-176817151.html
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...d-with-november-sales-of-32649-181876921.html
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...us-volume-with-sales-of-305072-185567602.html

3,834 - 3,580 = 254 , or 85/month

So, if your claim is true (that Jan-Sept worldwide sales figures of 61,294 are sales of S-class sedan only) then MB sold 254 units (or 85/month in average) in all non-US markets worldwide in the last 3 months of 2012. Yeah, right.

I can bring you Geman figures as well for at least October & November, where you can see MB sold more than 254 cars there in a single month. Not to mention 3 months, and other markets worldwide.


YOU ARE SOOOOOO WRONG!!!!

If that is the case then the press release is very misleading. They're using the word segment in a different context from one sentence to another. Yes those sales numbers make the final tally impossible you were right about the way they used the word segment I guess, though to me it still doesn't read that way, but the numbers you linked bare that out.

Still doesn't change the fact that Scott is full of shit and didn't know what he was talking about to start with. You on the other hand appear to be right about the numbers. I stand corrected.


M

 

[mini_cooper4]

Right and you lost it. I get what you're saying, that they are grouping the cars together, GOT IT. The S/SL/SLS/CL as the "segment", but the problem is that you aren't reading what the actual press release said. Why the hell would they say the S-Class is the best selling sedan in the segment if it is the only sedan in their own made up segment? Does that make sense to you. You just can't admit that you were wrong. True, Mercedes is using the word "segment" in two different contexts, but if you actually read what it says you'll see that you were wrong.

M

No, I actually agree with you that the S-Class Sedan alone sold most in it's segment - 7er,A8 and so on.
...yet I still am right in what I wrote as the number 61k wasn't for the whole year and was meant to mean "S,SL,CL,SLS".
If you still disagree... let's just agree to disagree and spare other forum members

 

[Merc1]

No, I actually agree with you that the S-Class Sedan alone sold most in it's segment - 7er,A8 and so on.
...yet I still am right in what I wrote as the number 61k wasn't for the whole year and was meant to mean "S,SL,CL,SLS".
If you still disagree... let's just agree to disagree and spare other forum members

I just agreed with EnI that was the context that Mercedes meant with the word "segment" in that part of the press release. It is really confusing because they use segment to mean both within and outside the company, you and EnI were both right.

M

 

[mini_cooper4]

I just agreed with EnI that was the context that Mercedes meant with the word "segment" in that part of the press release. It is really confusing because they use segment to mean both within and outside the company, you and EnI were both right.

M

Yes, I agree that it's a bit confusing It's not important who's right but I'm glad we finally agree