BMW 7er appeal

[Merc1]

But, the 7-Series is far from the bottom of the class sales wise.
Sales figures 1 January-30 September 2012:
Mercedes Benz S-Class: 61,294
BMW 7-Series: 43,794
Audi A8: 28,364
http://www.daimler.com/dccom/0-5-7153-1-1538724-1-0-0-0-0-0-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html
http://www.germancarforum.com/community/threads/bmw-group-global-sales-by-model-q3-2012.47446/
http://www.audi.com/etc/medialib/ng...22.Par.0006.File.pdf/third_quarter_report.pdf

See this is what I hate the most here, people posting misinformation all the time. One person says the 7er outsells the S with nothing to prove it, not a damn thing, then it gets taken as gospel by those with an agenda, then we get a post with proper links only to find out that it most likely isn't true. Thank you Hof for this actually factual post.

M

 

[LaArtist]

Looks like you missed all the BMW 1-series bitching

Indeed i did

And 2nd that on the sales numbers.

 

[LaArtist]

In the current scheme of things even with the decline of large premium sedans , the 7er remains the best selling car of the segment thanks to strong demand in the Middle-East, Russia , USA and The Asian market.

He did it

 

[Merc1]

It's always these so called BMW marketing/insiders that constantly post misinformation. What a crock.

M

 

[LaArtist]

Btw those numbers were for Q3..
When will we see the whole 2012?

I think the gap is even wider by years end. if it was nearly 20K cars by Q3

 

[EnI]

But, the 7-Series is far from the bottom of the class sales wise.
Sales figures 1 January-30 September 2012:
Mercedes Benz S-Class: 61,294
BMW 7-Series: 43,794
Audi A8: 28,364
http://www.daimler.com/dccom/0-5-7153-1-1538724-1-0-0-0-0-0-8-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0.html
http://www.germancarforum.com/community/threads/bmw-group-global-sales-by-model-q3-2012.47446/
http://www.audi.com/etc/medialib/ng...22.Par.0006.File.pdf/third_quarter_report.pdf

See this is what I hate the most here, people posting misinformation all the time. One person says the 7er outsells the S with nothing to prove it, not a damn thing, then it gets taken as gospel by those with an agenda, then we get a post with proper links only to find out that it most likely isn't true. Thank you Hof for this actually factual post.

M

Let's be precise here!

Those Daimler claimed sales figures are for the entire S-class segment, not for the S-class sedan only.
S-class segment = S + CL + SL + SLS

Eg. data for US market in 2012: total S-class segment sales: 18,216 (incl. 11,794 of S-class sedan). So, at least in US S-class represents 65% sales of entire S-class segment sales. On a worldwide level probably the ratio is a bit higher. And that means (when comparing Q3 worldwide figures for 7er & entire S-class segment) 7er sedan & S-class sedan are neck-to-neck sales wise. And with LCI boost in Q3 + Q4 7er most probably outsold S-class in 2012 worldwide.

Unfortunately Daimler does not provide sales figures for S-class sedan only. But I'm sure JATO Dynamics has got & will have the 2012 figures available soon, so ...

 

[LaArtist]

Umm

The flagship of the brand, the S-Class sedan, has been in the top spot in its segment since the beginning of the year. In the S-Class segment, growth in year-to-date sales for 2012 amounted to +3.9% (61,294 u.)

 

[EnI]

That was a claim for a period form January to September 2012.

Mind 7er has a shitty Q2 due to LCI. Sales picked up in late Q3 & especially in Q4.

And the above mentioned Daimler figures are for the entire S-class segment (s+sl+cl+sls), not for S-class sedan only. And mind especially the SL had a very successful year in 2012 - contributing quite some sales to the entire S-class segment. CL & SLS sales were not as significant though.

OK, I'm not saying 7er is definitely the segment winner of 2012. But the gap between 7er & S-class sedan 2012 sales is very thin indeed, I'm sure.

 

[LaArtist]

Yeah well lets see when the 2012 numbers come in..

 

[EnI]

Yeah well lets see when the 2012 numbers come in..

As I said: Daimler does not & won't release sales figures for S-class sedan separately. They only deliver sales figures for the entire S-class segment in their press releases & financial reports.I don't know why, but they tend to group sales figures into the segments: AB (incl A & B), C (incl C & SLK), E (incl E & CLS), S (incl S, SL, CL & SLS) & the entire SUV segment (ML, GLK, GL & G).

The only detailed sales data available will be from JATO Dynamics ... later.

 

[K-A]

Looks like you missed all the BMW 1-series bitching

And the rust bitching.

 

[Merc1]

Let's be precise here!

Those Daimler claimed sales figures are for the entire S-class segment, not for the S-class sedan only.
S-class segment = S + CL + SL + SLS

Eg. data for US market in 2012: total S-class segment sales: 18,216 (incl. 11,794 of S-class sedan). So, at least in US S-class represents 65% sales of entire S-class segment sales. On a worldwide level probably the ratio is a bit higher. And that means (when comparing Q3 worldwide figures for 7er & entire S-class segment) 7er sedan & S-class sedan are neck-to-neck sales wise. And with LCI boost in Q3 + Q4 7er most probably outsold S-class in 2012 worldwide.

Unfortunately Daimler does not provide sales figures for S-class sedan only. But I'm sure JATO Dynamics has got & will have the 2012 figures available soon, so ...

So in other words, after all that, you still don't have anything that says otherwise? See how you guys BS your way through things with "most likely", "probably"? That doesn't mean squat and it is really ridiculous for everyone to have to keep reading such misinformation passed off as "fact". You and Scott are fountains of misinformation when it comes to sales.

The flagship of the brand, the S-Class sedan, has been in the top spot in its segment since the beginning of the year. In the S-Class segment, growth in year-to-date sales for 2012 amounted to +3.9% (61,294 u.).

Not sure what you're reading, but this to me says the S-Class sedan, not the SL CL or the SLS. It clearly says S-Class "sedan", segment meaning the 7-Series, A8, XJ, not the CL, SL, SLS. Nice try, but cut the nonsense.

The 7er may have very well outsold the S-Class for the year, but no one knows that for sure yet.


M

 

[EnI]

LOL, M,

please stop BSing & spare yourself an embarrassment, since you obviously you don't have a clue what are you talking about. Seriously.

Daimler state the sales figures for the S-class segment, which includes S, CL, SL & SLS. You've seen one press release from Daimler, and you think you know it all? C'mon. You can do better than that. Check their official releases, press reports, presentations etc, and you'll see what the S-Class segment is.

And they do state sales figures for the entire segments only. Rarely for the particular model - usually only when the sales are extremely good (eg. after brand new model or new Mk of an existing model being introduced).

But if you want to see there what you wish to see - instead of real & true info - that's your problem then. I'm just helping here to open your misled eyes (and mind).

Just check your claim again: you are saying that Daimler posted sales figures for the particular automotive segment in general (luxury sedans) ... with 61,300 units sold (+3.9%) in Jan-Sept 2012 ... while Audi & BMW stated in their press reports that they sold 43,900 7ers & 28,400 A8s in the same period. Total of 72,300 units - which as you can see exceeds Daimler figure for which you say represents "segment meaning the 7-Series, A8, XJ, not the CL, SL, SLS"

Not even a nice try, chap.

But as you said: the numbers (from JD) are not in yet ... so we can only speculate & predict based on latest info & trends that are available. Which is still better than claims based on wishes & bias.

T

 

[mini_cooper4]

Not sure what you're reading, but this to me says the S-Class sedan, not the SL CL or the SLS. It clearly says S-Class "sedan", segment meaning the 7-Series, A8, XJ, not the CL, SL, SLS. Nice try, but cut the nonsense.

The 7er may have very well outsold the S-Class for the year, but no one knows that for sure yet.


M

Wrong

 

[Merc1]

LOL, M,

please stop BSing & spare yourself an embarrassment, since you obviously you don't have a clue what are you talking about. Seriously.

Daimler state the sales figures for the S-class segment, which includes S, CL, SL & SLS. You've seen one press release from Daimler, and you think you know it all? C'mon. You can do better than that. Check their official releases, press reports, presentations etc, and you'll see what the S-Class segment is.

And they do state sales figures for the entire segments only. Rarely for the particular model - usually only when the sales are extremely good (eg. after brand new model or new Mk of an existing model being introduced).

But if you want to see there what you wish to see - instead of real & true info - that's your problem then. I'm just helping here to open your misled eyes (and mind).

Just check your claim again: you are saying that Daimler posted sales figures for the particular automotive segment in general (luxury sedans) ... with 61,300 units sold (+3.9%) in Jan-Sept 2012 ... while Audi & BMW stated in their press reports that they sold 43,900 7ers & 28,400 A8s in the same period. Total of 72,300 units - which as you can see exceeds Daimler figure for which you say represents "segment meaning the 7-Series, A8, XJ, not the CL, SL, SLS"

Not even a nice try, chap.

But as you said: the numbers (from JD) are not in yet ... so we can only speculate & predict based on latest info & trends that are available. Which is still better than claims based on wishes & bias.

T

No I don't think I know it all, I'm going by one press in which they state the S-Class sedan. It clearly doesn't say anything about the SL, CL or SLS as being the segment. They're saying that the S-Class sedans sales increased to the number that they quoted. Why the hell would they group the S with the SL, CL and SLS that would be really silly.

What you're saying doesn't even make sense. Now of course you and Scott will of course keep spewing the wrong information, as usual.

M

 

[Merc1]

Wrong

They're saying the S-Class' sales increased to that number they give, not the segment of cars. Is that clearer for you?


M

 

[LaArtist]

Lets just see in the end when the numbers are in..

I agree with merc though..the so called BMW inside PR machine spins alot of bs at a high velocity.
Eni and Scott..

 

[mini_cooper4]

They're saying the S-Class' sales increased to that number they give, not the segment of cars. Is that clearer for you?


M

Read again what's written They are not stating the S-Class sedan but that IN the S-Class segment 61k cars were sold.
And as Eni said "S-Class segment" is used by MB for the "S,SL,CL,SLS" group of cars.
Some things are known by default by some and I suggest you digg deeper to find more info on the matter and see who's right

 

[HighestOfHigh]

The Current 7 series looks great and is a worthy alternative to the S-class. I'm sure someone considering an S-class will probably think of the 7 series first before considering a Jaguar, but in the end it comes down to personal taste.

KA wanted to share his feelings with us. He was very dissapointed with the new e-class and other models.

There is NOTHING worst then someone moaning about Mercedes lines a million times. I think Artist was just pointing out how similar the BMW interiors are.

 

[Merc1]

Read again what's written They are not stating the S-Class sedan but that IN the S-Class segment 61k cars were sold.
And as Eni said "S-Class segment" is used by MB for the "S,SL,CL,SLS" group of cars.
Some things are known by default by some and I suggest you digg deeper to find more info on the matter and see who's right

I disagree, what it says to me is that in the segment they have sold 61K S-Class sedans, that segment being the other sedans in the segment. Again, let me be clear I never said that the 61K figure was the number of sales for the segment as a total of cars sold by BMW, Audi and Mercedes as the stuffed shirt EnI stated. Now if they truly do mean the segment as being the S, SL, CL and SLS then I will gladly stand corrected and admit I was wrong. I just don't see why they would group a bunch of cars together that have nothing to do with each other.

What makes me doubt anything they say is because Scott in particular has blatantly lied before about sales numbers, he always shoots his mouth off about Mercedes' sales vs BMWs in order to make BMW look better. He is full of shit IMO.

The flagship of the brand, the S-Class sedan, has been in the top spot in its segment since the beginning of the year. In the S-Class segment, growth in year-to-date sales for 2012 amounted to +3.9% (61,294 u.). The new SL was a big hit again in September with a nearly sixfold increase in sales of the sporty roadster (+466.9%).

In the first sentence segment clearly means the S-Class' competitors, not the SL/S/CL/SLS.

Now in the second sentence, "segment" now means S/SL/SLS/CL? I seriously doubt that.


M