BMW 7er appeal

[EnI]

M,

Daimler just issued a sales report for the 2012 worldwide:

Even in the year before its model change-over, the S-Class sedan was once again the most sought-after vehicle in its segment with 65,128 units sold (previous year: 68,969 u.) /-5.6%/.

http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-921-656186-1-1563652-1-0-0-0-0-1-13470-614232-0-1-0-0-0-0-0.html

Which makes it clear that 61k units sold as per Jan-Sept '12 weren't S-class sedans only (but the figure incl. SL, CL & SLS sales as well). Unless you think MB was able to sell 4,000 S-class sedans only in the last 3 months worldwide.

Now we only have to wait for sales figures form BMW AG, which will be available next week. Btw, in 2011 BMW sold 68,774 7ers, and MB 68,969 S-class sedans - so, only 195 vehicles more. And the 2012 figure will be similar - very close ... in either BMW's or MB's favor.

 

[mini_cooper4]

I disagree, what it says to me is that in the segment they have sold 61K S-Class sedans, that segment being the other sedans in the segment. Again, let me be clear I never said that the 61K figure was the number of sales for the segment as a total of cars sold by BMW, Audi and Mercedes as the stuffed shirt EnI stated. Now if they truly do mean the segment as being the S, SL, CL and SLS then I will gladly stand corrected and admit I was wrong. I just don't see why they would group a bunch of cars together that have nothing to do with each other.

What makes me doubt anything they say is because Scott in particular has blatantly lied before about sales numbers, he always shoots his mouth off about Mercedes' sales vs BMWs in order to make BMW look better. He is full of shit IMO.





In the first sentence segment clearly means the S-Class' competitors, not the SL/S/CL/SLS.

Now in the second sentence, "segment" now means S/SL/SLS/CL? I seriously doubt that.


M

Yes, in the second sentence "segment" means "S/SL/SLS/CL". 61,294 are the cars sold by MB not the cars sold in the 7er,S-Class,A8 segment... which is more than obvious. there's also an E-Class segment and so on and that's how MB prefers to call their "segments"

Why do they group cars that are far from each other in what they are meant to be? It's the high-end models segment
There's also the entry-level models segment and the mid segment and the SUV segment... it's just how it is and how MB chose it to be. I'm not sure if you can find MB statements on the net where they use their "segment" as a description for a part of their line of cars but maybe there are some. You don't have to believe what I'm saying

 

[Merc1]

M,

Daimler just issued a sales report for the 2012 worldwide:



http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-921-656186-1-1563652-1-0-0-0-0-1-13470-614232-0-1-0-0-0-0-0.html

Which makes it clear that 61k units sold as per Jan-Sept '12 weren't S-class sedans only (but the figure incl. SL, CL & SLS sales as well). Unless you think MB was able to sell 4,000 S-class sedans only in the last 3 months worldwide.

Now we only have to wait for sales figures form BMW AG, which will be available next week. Btw, in 2011 BMW sold 68,774 7ers, and MB 68,969 S-class sedans - so, only 195 vehicles more. And the 2012 figure will be similar - very close ... in either BMW's or MB's favor.

That could be just so. I don't really even care about who sold more anymore, it is the thing you and especially Scott do with posting misinformation. He clearly said that the 7 outsold the S and didn't have a clue about that, unless he had the figures in hand, even then I wouldn't trust squat he says because he is a blatant liar.


EDIT:

EnI did you read the entire press release? It clearly states:

"S-Class again best-selling luxury sedan in the world"

So again, what are you talking about? It clearly says S-Class sedan!!!!

"Even in the year before its model change-over, the S-Class sedan was once again the most sought-after vehicle in its segment with 65,128 units sold (previous year: 68,969 u.)."

Why is it so hard for you to accept this???? You're going to tell me now that segment means SL/SLS/CL/S in this sentence???????


M

 

[Merc1]

Yes, in the second sentence "segment" means "S/SL/SLS/CL". 61,294 are the cars sold by MB not the cars sold in the 7er,S-Class,A8 segment... which is more than obvious. there's also an E-Class segment and so on and that's how MB prefers to call their "segments"

Why do they group cars that are far from each other in what they are meant to be? It's the high-end models segment
There's also the entry-level models segment and the mid segment and the SUV segment... it's just how it is and how MB chose it to be. I'm not sure if you can find MB statements on the net where they use their "segment" as a description for a part of their line of cars but maybe there are some. You don't have to believe what I'm saying

You're late and wrong, read the above post. Read the press release the EnI just linked.


M

 

[mini_cooper4]

You're late and wrong, read the above post. Read the press release the EnI just linked.


M

Yes, I was right in what I was saying
Here you see MB stating the SL as a part of the S-Class Segment and that was my whole point.
Next time you see "S-Class segment" you'll know what it means. In the end that's what forum mates are for

 

[Merc1]

Yes, I was right in what I was saying
Here you see MB stating the SL as a part of the S-Class Segment and that was my whole point.
Next time you see "S-Class segment" you'll know what it means. In the end that's what forum mates are for

Wrong, because you clearly either didn't read what they just said about the S-Class SEDAN being the best selling car in the segment. Segment meaning competitors, not the SL/SLS/CL in that sentence. That was my point all along and the press release just proved that. Yes they do say segment after that, but that wasn't what my point was. I clearly said if they do that then it doesn't make sense, but for what I even posted for from the start has been proven. Segment in that regard to the S-Class SEDAN means its competive set:

"Even in the year before its model change-over, the S-Class sedan was once again the most sought-after vehicle in its segment with 65,128 units sold (previous year: 68,969 u.). "

Or can you just not read? What does that say? Clearly they sold 65K S-Class sedans in the car's segment, i.e. S-Class/7-Series/A8/XJ. If anything they're using the word "segment" to mean 2 different things depending on where you see the word used in the press release.


Added bonus is that it is the best selling SEDAN in its segment, SEDAN. EnI and especially SCOTT are just BS'ers just like I stated originally.


M

 

[EnI]

M,

You are making conclusions on particular press issues, without having any background knowledge.

S-class segment by Daimler = S-sedan + SL roadster + CL coupe + SLS supercar.

And yes, they do refer to this "segment" in 2 ways: S-class segment (= S + CL + SL + SLS) vs. its segment (= S-class sedan's segment of luxury sedans, incl. A8, 7er, XJ, LS etc). Yes, it's a mess made by Daimler themselves.

Also, how on Earth Daimler knows S-class is best selling luxury sedan when eg BMW sales figures aren't even public? Nor JATO Dynamics haven't issued their own data since it's too early, and not all markets are reported in this moment.

Daimler having spies in BMW AG & AUDI AG?

Perhaps S-class sedan is the 2012 winner, perhaps not. Let's wait for official BMW sales figures.
And be sure the difference in units sold (between 7er & S-class) is tiny.

Btw, I'm not advocating for SCOTT's claims. I have never claimed 7er is best selling luxury sedan in 2012. I've just reacted to the claim that the Jan-Sept 2012 sales figures posted by Hoffmeister indicate huge difference between 7er & S-class sedan sales.

 

[Merc1]

M,

You are making conclusions on particular press issues, without having any background knowledge.

S-class segment by Daimler = S-sedan + SL roadster + CL coupe + SLS supercar.

And yes, they do refer to this "segment" in 2 ways: S-class segment (= S + CL + SL + SLS) vs. its segment (= S-class sedan's segment of luxury sedans, incl. A8, 7er, XJ, LS etc). Yes, it's a mess made by Daimler themselves.

Also, how on Earth Daimler knows S-class is best selling luxury sedan when eg BMW sales figures aren't even public? Nor JATO Dynamics haven't issued their own data since it's too early, and not all markets are reported in this moment.

Daimler having spies in BMW AG & AUDI AG?

Perhaps S-class sedan is the 2012 winner, perhaps not. Let's wait for official BMW sales figures.
And be sure the difference in units sold (between 7er & S-class) is tiny.

Btw, I'm not advocating for SCOTT's claims. I have never claimed 7er is best selling luxury sedan in 2012. I've just reacted to the claim that the Jan-Sept 2012 sales figures posted by Hoffmeister indicate huge difference between 7er & S-class sedan sales.

No, I said all along that segment in the case of the S-Class is the cars it competes with. That is what they're saying in regarding the sales of the S-Class sedan in the press release YOU linked. That is exactly what I said.

"And yes, they do refer to this "segment" in 2 ways: S-class segment (= S + CL + SL + SLS) vs. its segment (= S-class sedan's segment of luxury sedans, incl. A8, 7er, XJ, LS etc). Yes, it's a mess made by Daimler themselves."


Either way, my original point stands. Clearly they're talking about the cars in the same class from competitors. They know because they have probably tracked the sales of the 7er all year long. Believe me these companies talk to each other all the time. Scott don't know s__t.


M

 

[Hofmeister]

Ahh, sorry that the information that I posted was misleading, I didn't know MB grouped their models into "segments" like that

 

[EnI]

Either way, my original point stands. Clearly they're talking about the cars in the same class from competitors.

Yes, in the latest press release I posted (PR about 2012 sales figures) they actually do. But not in the Daimler press release Hofmeister posted in his post (via link).

They know because they have probably tracked the sales of the 7er all year long. Believe me these companies talk to each other all the time.

Oh, really? Really? C'mon. LOL

Scott don't know s__t.

He certainly ain't an Oracle.

Ahh, sorry that the information that I posted was misleading, I didn't know MB grouped their models into "segments" like that

It's not your fault. It's a mess Daimler made themselves. And they do group models in segments. Why? I don't have a clue.

eg. from 2011 Financial Report:

 

[SCOTT27]

It's a known industry fact that all S models are counted as 1 range in global sales just as all 3er , 5er etc are counted as one.

 

[aleks_16]

There is NOTHING worst then someone moaning about Mercedes lines a million times. I think Artist was just pointing out how similar the BMW interiors are.

The 5er and 7er are similar, yes, but he is saying that the 3er and 7er are similar and IMO this is just bs or like he would say to bring balance to the forum. Yes KA have talked and dissed against the e-class limo, but it is different he owns this car. Yes he did it a little bit to much but I remember the day when the 7er e65 was realesed my reaction was not better. I was so sad they f#cked up a so nice and great car. Just remember the e38 such a beautifull car and so did mb have done some cruel thing with the e fl. If you look at the e class i adore it really but the limo is just ugly.

 

[Merc1]

Its obvious here that some (Scott) can't read so the plot is lost. Clearly Mercedes stated that the S-Class was the best selling sedan in the category, so again to keep talking about that "segment" nonsense is really stupid. Within the industry is one thing and a press release is another.

Yes EnI. Companies watch each others sales all the time, and I know you know this. You guys can't be this thick.


M

 

[Merc1]

Yes, in the latest press release I posted (PR about 2012 sales figures) they actually do. But not in the Daimler press release Hofmeister posted in his post (via link).

It does. What part don't you understand?

"The flagship of the brand, the S-Class sedan, has been in the top spot in its segment since the beginning of the year. In the S-Class segment, growth in year-to-date sales for 2012 amounted to +3.9% (61,294 u.). "

WHY WOULD THEY SAY THE S-CLASS SEDAN HAS BEEN IN THE TOP SPOT IN ITS SEGMENT IF THEY ARE COUNTING IT AMONG THE SL/CL/SLS, IT WOULD BE THE ONLY SEDAN IN SUCH A "SEGMENT"!!!! DUH. THIS IS COMMON SENSE, READING COMPREHENSION 101. OF COURSE IT WOULD BE THE TOP SEDAN IN A SEGMENT THAT DIDN'T INCLUDE ANY OTHER SEDANS, SL/SLS/CL. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE. THE SALES FIGURE THEY GAVE IS THE NUMBER OF S-CLASS SEDANS (AS IT STATES) THEY'VE SOLD IN THE SEGMENT UP TO THAT DATE, NOT THE TOTAL NUMBER OF SALES IN THE SEGMENT, THAT SEGMENT BEING THE 7/A8/XJ ETC.

Its really simple. Just because you and Scott like to post misinformation (and got called out on it) you're going to insist on saying something that was never said in the first place.


M

 

[mini_cooper4]

Wrong, because you clearly either didn't read what they just said about the S-Class SEDAN being the best selling car in the segment. Segment meaning competitors, not the SL/SLS/CL in that sentence. That was my point all along and the press release just proved that. Yes they do say segment after that, but that wasn't what my point was. I clearly said if they do that then it doesn't make sense, but for what I even posted for from the start has been proven. Segment in that regard to the S-Class SEDAN means its competive set:

"Even in the year before its model change-over, the S-Class sedan was once again the most sought-after vehicle in its segment with 65,128 units sold (previous year: 68,969 u.). "

Or can you just not read? What does that say? Clearly they sold 65K S-Class sedans in the car's segment, i.e. S-Class/7-Series/A8/XJ. If anything they're using the word "segment" to mean 2 different things depending on where you see the word used in the press release.


Added bonus is that it is the best selling SEDAN in its segment, SEDAN. EnI and especially SCOTT are just BS'ers just like I stated originally.


M

Plot lost, mate. You don't get what I'm saying and if I have to write it down again it can be considered as a spam.
In the quote we were discussing "S-Class segment" was meant to mean "S,SL,CL,SLS" and I've explained why already.
You are quoting something else which has nothing to do with the previous quote.
Let's not continue as I see no point to do so

 

[K-A]

That is a nice a$$ mug. Though I think I prefer the round angel eyes, just a timeless and classic shape.

ENI: Did the 7er facelift change the shape of the grille? Something looks different about it. Less slats?

 

[EnI]

Think, M, think!

I know you can do it!

The sales figures quoted in your latest post (61,294 units) are for the entire S-class segment (S+CL+SL+SLS), not for S-class sedan only. Mind they sold 65,128 S-class sedan in Jan-Dec 2012. Do you really think that they only sold 4,000 S-class sedans in the last 3 months?

Don't blame me for Daimler's mess in the sales recording & reporting. They issue confusing reports, and be sure I'm more aware of it than you are.

Btw ... Yes, they claim S-class is best-selling luxury sedan. They do have some rough intel on rival's sales but in such close race I would rather wait for official figures from BMW. And be sure the sales gap will be tiny. Just like in 2011 when S-class outsold 7er for 195 units only worldwide!

 

[EnI]

ENI: Did the 7er facelift change the shape of the grille? Something looks different about it. Less slats?

Yes, 9 slats instead of 11.

 

[K-A]

Yes, 9 slats instead of 11.

But same shape yeah? I assume that's what we'll see for the F10. Nice mod to do for pre-facelift cars if they like the less-slat look better.

 

[EnI]

But same shape yeah? I assume that's what we'll see for the F10. Nice mod to do for pre-facelift cars if they like the less-slat look better.

There were two types of grilles on pre-LCI 7er. One with more 3D & thinner kidney frames & 13 slats ... and the other one with more 2D & thicker kidney frames & 9 slats (for models with infrared camera). On the LCI models there are only grilles with a bit thicker 3D kidney frames & 9 slats - so a combination of both pre-LCI grilles.

PS: there were 13 slats on pre-LCI grille, not 11 ... my bad.