7 Series (G11) BMW 7-Series (G11/12) reviews, test-drives, etc.

[mdartisian]

Dang, poor 7 series lost the war of perception big time. The other GKL models need to be home runs.

 

[EnI]

Dang, poor 7 series lost the war of perception big time. The other GKL models need to be home runs.

Different cars for different customers. Expecting from sportier brands like BMW & Audi & Jaguar & Porsche & Cadillac (and even Lexus lately!) etc to deliver same serene & cloudy experience (especially @ the back seat) as in the W222 S-class is IDIOTIC. Some cars are made with passenger & back seat riding in mind, while some still focus on DRIVER & DRIVING. With all the rivals offering sportier experience S-class remains the one & only focusing more one the (rear) passengers - something Rolls-Royce does (and Bentley to a bit lesser degree).

And people who expect from (new) 7er, A8, XJ, LS etc to beat S-class in comfort, premium feel & serenity are idiots - not knowing much about the brands & the segment segmentation itself. That Russian guy from the review is a typical case. To him (and him alike) those are just "expensive big sedans" - and apparently to him all should be alike (or better than S-class).

Different cars, different brands, different characters, different advantages - for different needs, desires, dreams etc. But I DO miss a proper S-class rival though. Yet it looks other carmakers don't even bother to try ... or have just given up. S-class have been a king of the class ... and it will remain so. That's just the way it is. Expecting otherwise is moronic.

 

[tristatez28lt1]

The DragTimes reviews are some of the most exciting and best on the internet. (I strongly dislike TFL guys on the other hand. They have no idea about cars).

 

[mdartisian]

And people who expect from (new) 7er, A8, XJ, LS etc to beat S-class in comfort, premium feel & serenity are idiots - not knowing much about the brands & the segment segmentation itself. That Russian guy from the review is a typical case. To him (and him alike) those are just "expensive big sedans" - and apparently to him all should be alike (or better than S-class).

S-class have been a king of the class ... and it will remain so. That's just the way it is. Expecting otherwise is moronic.

The 7 series is just as well made and premium as the S class. Where it falls short is getting people to believe that. If BMW had did one thing revolutionary, whether it be revolutionary interior/evolutionary exterior or vise versa, there wouldn't be this perception that the 7 series is not on the same level as the S class.

MB, knowing they were about to revive the Maybach name, and knowing they had to do it with the S class, did their homework, even taking design cues from RR and Bentley, which then gave the impression the S class was a legitimate competitor. By taking care of the perception of the S class, people could focus on it's engineering excellence. The 7 series is not really inferior to the S class, but all it's engineering excellence is often overlooked because of design. That's the one mistake I feel BMW made with this generation 7 series, and I don't think they'll make that mistake again.

BMW needs to find a narrative for the 7 series. S class has one, 3 series has one, 911 has one... 007 would be a good one.

 

[EnI]

Narrative ... finding one ... OK ... BUT!

We, the general public, do forget about the specific (current!) customer pool & its characteristics. Changing the car's character much would alienate the current customer pool - while not necessarily attract enough new customers. So, the product is usually made with its core customers / users in mind. And be sure 7er & S-class users are of different sort, different preferences.

We also do no take into consideration the carmaker's general product strategy.

Mind MB have no independent Maybach brand in the offer - but they decided to spice up the high-end MB model with Maybach label. So, to do that hi-end MB models HAVE TO BE a proper base for Maybach model - therefore being top notch and at least a level above the rival (at least when it comes to perception).

BMW on the other hand have Rolls-Royce brand in the offer, and also planning to offer 9er - a new flagship. So, no need to make 7er a super luxurious & opulent in S-class (Maybach edition) manner.

So, while S-class (especially the Maybach edition) is - and it seems it will remain as such - a top offering in the MB product line, BMW plans to offer a new BMW flagship + they also offer entry Rolls-Royce (Ghost).

So, when it comes to 9er ... sportier luxury sedan (in the manner of Maserati Quattroporte or AM Lagonda) would allow next gen of 7er to become more comfort oriented - to take directly on S-class. But right now that's not the case - 7er still has to be a sports luxury sedan as well as a comfortable cruiser. Quite an iffy compromise in this particular segment, if you ask me.
Also the design: planning a more flamboyant & extroverted product above 7er means the product like 7er should be more reserved in styling so the 9er (or whatever it will be called) will stand out more, be more special, having stronger narrative ... establishing a strong(er) contrast to the 7er. Which would not be possible in the case of flamboyant 7er.

With the introduction of 9er the differentiation & segmentation will be possible finally. There will be 2 different products: one more passenger oriented, the other more oriented to the driver himself / herself / hirself (but still offering enough comfort & convenience to the rear seat passengers).

And for the even more luxury- and brand conscious people there would be much more exclusive & limited Rolls-Royce products - with beyond-imagination customization program via RR Bespoke.

Situations are complex, multidimensional. And judging a situation in a too simplistic, one dimensional way is just plain wrong! OK, I understand general public doing that ... but the journalist (I mean REAL journalist) would have to know & present facts better. But unfortunately we live in a world of same-proclaimed "journalists" where everyone can be a blogger, vlogger, "journalist", critic etc. - and the quality of the content (not to mention the form itself!) is a pure reflection & consequence of that situation. Sure there are some good journalistic works out there but in the ocean of vlogs and blogs and info portals etc its almost impossible to detect & recognize a good one.

So, at least in this particular Mk the difference between G11/12 and W222 is natural and planned. And it's just the way it should be - regarding the customer pool. BUT ... the next Mk ... with greater differentiation on BMW's side the situation will definitely change a bit.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Splendid post @EnI
I'll think of it's content, during my extended testdrive in the G11 end of this month.

 

[LaArtist]

HAH shit Went down here.. a man drove a BMW did not like it.. people got butthurt to the extreme.

Meanwhile scott is telling us its leap years ahead of the S class, cause it has a carbon core and you can wag your finger at it..hahha..

And in the same sentence admitting that the segment belongs to the S class... as if it is not BMWs fault that they can't take more of the segment.. the god damn SEGMENT is flawed..

Customers are retarded, they choose the inferior car!..
Cause the 7er is perfect, in design, innovation, driving pleasure and in every single measurable way.
But STILL the customers choose the inferior car.
Never mind the market/customer Always being right, nevermind that.
this is BMW and BMW makes perfect cars, so the customers of this damn segment are just nutjobs.

OR.. ( and this is my theory)
they need to step it up!
can they make a S class beating car? Sure why not..
But fundamentally BMW as a brand and what it stands for rimes so badly with a car like the 7er.
So there needs to be a complete overhaul in raising the prestige of the brand so it attracts buyers of this category. Why do you Think BMW has had a backseat postion when it comes to high end cars?,
Like the 8er, 7er, 6er and Z8?.. There is a limit to what people want to pay for a BMW as the brand stands. And BMW management know this, thats why they don't venture into those markets to often. they are not stupid!
So either the fans need to hope that BMW sacrifices its brand image of sportyness and youthness in order to sell more high end cars, ( the board will never do this).
or they should just buy that these few cars are for BMW something of a necessary evil, and they don't intend to rule those markets. The board seems to understand this.
But keyboard warriors still Think that every segment they compete in they rule. and if the sales don't reflect it, then there is something wrong with the customers.

Please get a grip

PS
this supposed 9series..when is it out.. ?
Let me guess 2020?


PPS
And please don't give me that it still sells, well ofc it does, quattroportes and odd vehicles sell to.
There is Always a bunch of people that like what it stands for, and are willing to pay near 200K for a 760. What we are talking about here is dominance of the segment.
How do you expect BMW to pour billions into the development of an all beating and supreme 7er, when they know that the sales won't be there due to their brand not holding enough prestige for 150K plus cars..
And why the hell do you Think they won't make a proper sportscar? do you not Think that they KNOW you all have been thirsty for one for the last 50 years? They know.. but this is buisness.
And an X(?) makes them much more Money than a extravagant 150K plus Project which will sink due to the brand image ( which btw is a great image, just not for 150K plus cars)

And finally due to Everything i said above, ile belive it when i see it.. the 9er that is

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Guess what I'm driving the next few days...

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Fantastic Mick!! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

[klier]

HAH shit Went down here.. a man drove a BMW did not like it.. people got butthurt to the extreme.

Meanwhile scott is telling us its leap years ahead of the S class, cause it has a carbon core and you can wag your finger at it..hahha..

And in the same sentence admitting that the segment belongs to the S class... as if it is not BMWs fault that they can't take more of the segment.. the god damn SEGMENT is flawed..

Customers are retarded, they choose the inferior car!..
Cause the 7er is perfect, in design, innovation, driving pleasure and in every single measurable way.
But STILL the customers choose the inferior car.
Never mind the market/customer Always being right, nevermind that.
this is BMW and BMW makes perfect cars, so the customers of this damn segment are just nutjobs.

OR.. ( and this is my theory)
they need to step it up!
can they make a S class beating car? Sure why not..
But fundamentally BMW as a brand and what it stands for rimes so badly with a car like the 7er.
So there needs to be a complete overhaul in raising the prestige of the brand so it attracts buyers of this category. Why do you Think BMW has had a backseat postion when it comes to high end cars?,
Like the 8er, 7er, 6er and Z8?.. There is a limit to what people want to pay for a BMW as the brand stands. And BMW management know this, thats why they don't venture into those markets to often. they are not stupid!
So either the fans need to hope that BMW sacrifices its brand image of sportyness and youthness in order to sell more high end cars, ( the board will never do this).
or they should just buy that these few cars are for BMW something of a necessary evil, and they don't intend to rule those markets. The board seems to understand this.
But keyboard warriors still Think that every segment they compete in they rule. and if the sales don't reflect it, then there is something wrong with the customers.

Please get a grip

PS
this supposed 9series..when is it out.. ?
Let me guess 2020?


PPS
And please don't give me that it still sells, well ofc it does, quattroportes and odd vehicles sell to.
There is Always a bunch of people that like what it stands for, and are willing to pay near 200K for a 760. What we are talking about here is dominance of the segment.
How do you expect BMW to pour billions into the development of an all beating and supreme 7er, when they know that the sales won't be there due to their brand not holding enough prestige for 150K plus cars..
And why the hell do you Think they won't make a proper sportscar? do you not Think that they KNOW you all have been thirsty for one for the last 50 years? They know.. but this is buisness.
And an X(?) makes them much more Money than a extravagant 150K plus Project which will sink due to the brand image ( which btw is a great image, just not for 150K plus cars)

And finally due to Everything i said above, ile belive it when i see it.. the 9er that is

LOL! Endless walls of whining!

 

[ThroughandThrough]

HAH shit Went down here.. a man drove a BMW did not like it.. people got butthurt to the extreme.

Meanwhile scott is telling us its leap years ahead of the S class, cause it has a carbon core and you can wag your finger at it..hahha..

And in the same sentence admitting that the segment belongs to the S class... as if it is not BMWs fault that they can't take more of the segment.. the god damn SEGMENT is flawed..

Customers are retarded, they choose the inferior car!..
Cause the 7er is perfect, in design, innovation, driving pleasure and in every single measurable way.
But STILL the customers choose the inferior car.
Never mind the market/customer Always being right, nevermind that.
this is BMW and BMW makes perfect cars, so the customers of this damn segment are just nutjobs.

OR.. ( and this is my theory)
they need to step it up!
can they make a S class beating car? Sure why not..
But fundamentally BMW as a brand and what it stands for rimes so badly with a car like the 7er.
So there needs to be a complete overhaul in raising the prestige of the brand so it attracts buyers of this category. Why do you Think BMW has had a backseat postion when it comes to high end cars?,
Like the 8er, 7er, 6er and Z8?.. There is a limit to what people want to pay for a BMW as the brand stands. And BMW management know this, thats why they don't venture into those markets to often. they are not stupid!
So either the fans need to hope that BMW sacrifices its brand image of sportyness and youthness in order to sell more high end cars, ( the board will never do this).
or they should just buy that these few cars are for BMW something of a necessary evil, and they don't intend to rule those markets. The board seems to understand this.
But keyboard warriors still Think that every segment they compete in they rule. and if the sales don't reflect it, then there is something wrong with the customers.

Please get a grip

PS
this supposed 9series..when is it out.. ?
Let me guess 2020?


PPS
And please don't give me that it still sells, well ofc it does, quattroportes and odd vehicles sell to.
There is Always a bunch of people that like what it stands for, and are willing to pay near 200K for a 760. What we are talking about here is dominance of the segment.
How do you expect BMW to pour billions into the development of an all beating and supreme 7er, when they know that the sales won't be there due to their brand not holding enough prestige for 150K plus cars..
And why the hell do you Think they won't make a proper sportscar? do you not Think that they KNOW you all have been thirsty for one for the last 50 years? They know.. but this is buisness.
And an X(?) makes them much more Money than a extravagant 150K plus Project which will sink due to the brand image ( which btw is a great image, just not for 150K plus cars)

And finally due to Everything i said above, ile belive it when i see it.. the 9er that is

man it sounndz Like ur upset ..
but, i didnt rly understan what You're point was bc of how poorly writtn you're post was done here
;SO im not shure what u meant ?

 

[LaArtist]

man it sounndz Like ur upset ..
but, i didnt rly understan what You're point was bc of how poorly writtn you're post was done here
;SO im not shure what u meant ?

imagine how hard it was to write all that for me, given my extremely poor english?
Do you expect me to go through it all once more for only you?
Let it slide man, like some kind of fringe experience..

 

[ThroughandThrough]

imagine how hard it was to write all that for me, given my extremely poor english?
Do you expect me to go through it all once more for only you?
Let it slide man, like some kind of fringe experience..

There's no need to imagine how difficult it was for you to write a logical response.

My point remains that the post was immoderately dramatic.

As far as letting it slide, well, that's a bit hypocritical.

 

[tomazino]

Nice detail

 

[nikola1984]

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[LaArtist]

There's no need to imagine how difficult it was for you to write a logical response.

My point remains that the post was immoderately dramatic.

As far as letting it slide, well, that's a bit hypocritical.

Ok ile sum it up to you shortly.
I do not belive BMW has the brand image to sell extremely expensive cars, this has been proven time and time again.
I belive that BMWs board knows this, and do not waste huge amounts of money into cars like that.
The 7er is tradition and a necessary evil, but you do not see them venturing into high end cars (sportscars and luxury) at all.
I belive that they need to sacrifice their youthful image in order to sell more cars at such price points, and they really do not need to do that, as their brand image is great in other segments and makes them alot of money.

I now hope this is clear and calm enough for you.

 

[domleo999]

7er is the car to drive - the S is the car to be driven in. I think they both do great in the luxury segment. In my hometown (Nottingham), the F01 7er is an extremely common sight amongst roads, with business users and family's driving them themselves , whereas when I visit London, all i see is S classes with an executive in the back. Same market but different customers, both do excellent.

 

[WAND]

" the S is the car to be driven in"
Yes, and also car to drive.
Saying that S class is only to be driven in sounds pretty funny to me.

 

[domleo999]

" the S is the car to be driven in"
Yes, and also car to drive.
Saying that S class is only to be driven in sounds pretty funny to me.

Obviously not. I didn't say the S is only to be driven in, read my comment again.
I'm saying they both excel in those areas - and just talking about the previous comment

 

[WAND]

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