M1 AutoZeitung: New "M1" supercar from BMW?

[Zafiro]

Re: AutoZeitung: New "M1" model from BMW?

Is this really true about the M3 CSL being cancelled or is this a rumor people have just decided to believe as true?

M

I dont know 100% for sure but S-pimp usually give is us good BMW info.

 

[LaArtist]

Re: AutoZeitung: New "M1" model from BMW?

arrgh this again.. endless discussions about a bmw supercar..
i dont think they will make one anytime soon..they have other projects..like vans and shit going on..

 

[coolraoul]

IMO BMW has to defend its reputation as "the sportiest of the three".
Making money is excellent, selling 3-Series is excellent.

But if everybody has fabulous sportcars and BMW has only SAV and PAS, they slowly will become the weakest of the three. And therefore the less sporty.

Not doing this car, for BMW, is making a great gift to Audi and opening the door, telling them "go ahead and take our place! We think our reputation is not worth defending against you. Now BMW is specialized in sedans and SUVS, take the sporty throne!"

BMW's image has not been created with 320d and X5, it has been created by passion, racing, superb engineering and sporty vehicle.

Now that everybody has an M3 (even if a bit less sporty, people don't see the difference), including Lexus and Cadillac, it is not enough any more to stay on top. You need an R8, a 911, a SLR or whatever.

You need a bit passion!


And BMW needs a flagship that would weight a bit less than 2,5 tons, imo...

 

[H50]

IMO BMW has to defend its reputation as "the sportiest of the three".
Making money is excellent, selling 3-Series is excellent.

But if everybody has fabulous sportcars and BMW has only SAV and PAS, they slowly will become the weakest of the three. And therefore the less sporty.

Not doing this car, for BMW, is making a great gift to Audi and opening the door, telling them "go ahead and take our place! We think our reputation is not worth defending against you. Now BMW is specialized in sedans and SUVS, take the sporty throne!"

BMW's image has not been created with 320d and X5, it has been created by passion, racing, superb engineering and sporty vehicle.

Now that everybody has an M3 (even if a bit less sporty, people don't see the difference), including Lexus and Cadillac, it is not enough any more to stay on top. You need an R8, a 911, a SLR or whatever.

You need a bit passion!


And BMW needs a flagship that would weight a bit less than 2,5 tons, imo...

I totally agree with you here.. i think BMW is getting behind MB and Audi in this game..

Audi has the R8 and sorry i really dont think the M3 can compete with it... R8 is more as an Image car although its not powerful but it has the features of a super car.. The Look The Design The Engineering etc..


M9 M10 to compete with what? CL65 CL63 ?

We dont want a Bugatti veyron rival from BMW .. a Super Sexy sport mid engine exotic car that is backed with a high performance package would boost their image..And just in limited number 300 or 500 cars wont lead to bankruptcy...


I really like how VW group spent alot on the Bugatti Veyron project just for marketing and re-boost the brand name again in the market.. and the outcome is The fastet sport car in the world...

 

[coolraoul]

Yeah, don't need to build a Veyron or a Zonda.

Take the motor of the M5/M6, it is perfect for that, not even need to tune-it up, and put it in an attractive mid-engine car with an impressive, sporty shape, of course give it excellent engineering...but it won't be led to BMW's dead to develop that.

And it will boost their image, at a moment where Audi is getting sportier and sportier while Benz is getting back really fast and rebuilding its image. And of course, Lexus begin to create the F and a mid-engined car, so BMW can't lag behind its competitors on this terrain.

Trouble is, all these PAS and SAV and things need lots of R&D, and of course the next 7er is full testing, and the next 8er is a very important project...BMW can't do too much things and end-up with half-good cars.

The "supercar" should have a place in the calender imo.

 

[martinbo]

I attended Clarkson's MPH 08 show a few weeks back. At some point within the show they do a parade of supercars; 911's, Superleggeras, Zondas and 599's...

Only one car drew gasps, cheers and completely spontaneous applause. I think I saw some people actually get to their feet. It was the Audi R8. And I was utterly amazed. It seems that for regular Joe and Josephine - mostly people who aren't real car nuts like us - the Audi R8 is car of the moment.

BMW needs an R8 competitor like the US needs a new President.

 

[H50]

Yeah, don't need to build a Veyron or a Zonda.

Take the motor of the M5/M6, it is perfect for that, not even need to tune-it up, and put it in an attractive mid-engine car with an impressive, sporty shape, of course give it excellent engineering...but it won't be led to BMW's dead to develop that.

And it will boost their image, at a moment where Audi is getting sportier and sportier while Benz is getting back really fast and rebuilding its image. And of course, Lexus begin to create the F and a mid-engined car, so BMW can't lag behind its competitors on this terrain.

Trouble is, all these PAS and SAV and things need lots of R&D, and of course the next 7er is full testing, and the next 8er is a very important project...BMW can't do too much things and end-up with half-good cars.

The "supercar" should have a place in the calender imo.

I think BMW is Experimenting many different segments X6 and PAS.. The costs of R&D for these segments may cost more than developing a supercar..

They already have the experience in building sport cars involving themselves in F1 and other motorsports racing's...

 

[EnI]

I think BMW is Experimenting many different segments X6 and PAS.. The costs of R&D for these segments may cost more than developing a supercar..

Trouble is, all these PAS and SAV and things need lots of R&D, and of course the next 7er is full testing, and the next 8er is a very important project...B

So not true. These are all spin-off models - based on core model platforms, and also sharing a lot of parts with sister models (eg. X5, 5er etc). Therefore the development of such niche models is very cheap, and profits are very high.

Eg. a mid-engine supercar would require a completely new & special platform - using it for limited / extremely low production model this is a very expensive adventure.

Like I said: M-exclusive coupe spin-off from new Z8 roadster is more possible. Yet first the new Z8 should be developed & launched.

M9 M10 to compete with what? CL65 CL63 ?

We dont want a Bugatti veyron rival from BMW .. a Super Sexy sport mid engine exotic car that is backed with a high performance package would boost their image..And just in limited number 300 or 500 cars wont lead to bankruptcy...

No.
M9 / M10 will be a more a SL Black Series like car. A 2-seater sporty coupe. Yet it will be based on Z8 (think Z4 roadster vs Z4 coupe; yet the coupe will be M-exclusive - no regular engines like Z8 - which will be a SL fighter).

Like said earlier:Today BMW are not keen on producing exotic supercars for car collectors only. Since limited production models are mostly trophies for such a people, not for some racing fanatics. And be sure M-models have much greater image (and sales) boosting effect on regular non-M model of same series than a supercar would ever have.

BMW's image has not been created with 320d and X5, it has been created by passion, racing, superb engineering and sporty vehicle.

No, contemporary BMW sporty-performance image derives from M models, and BMW engagement in motorsport (mainly with their M-engineered models). And all these models are mostly sedans - either 4dr or 2dr ones. That's BMW: sporty performance sedan (= regular car).
BMW is not about supercars or exotic coupes / spyders etc.

M1 was the only advanture in "supecarland". And BMW will repeate this adventure on special occasion only: eg. celebrating F1 GP Chmpionship, or desperately needing an image boost, or the demand for such BMW would be extremely out of control. Neither of these three occasions is happening right now.


*****

BMW are very focused on profitable projects right now - and spin-off models are definitely such projects. Supercar is not. And since M-models are essential for BMW brand & image they are a priority as well.

More than boosting its performance image (which is still very high), BMW are more interested in boosting their image as luxury car maker - therefore developing a new flagship: a 4dr large GT (and not a sedan!), which will still completely fit into BMW sporty performance image.

Supercar is definitely not a priority.



****

And who said M3 CSL is canceled?
Yet don't expect it before E92 facelift.

 

[Deleted member 25]

If only they acquired that damn Aston Martin, they would create a new platform, use it for both brands, please afficianados and make money.

 

[SCOTT27]

CSL is definetely not cancelled. It's just that the M3 has not been around that long that people are expecting it now .... Patience...
This will not apply to America.

And no supercar ... We dont need it because we need to have more products that are in the spotlight for more than just 15 minutes..

 

[Sunny]

CSL is definetely not cancelled. It's just that the M3 has not been around that long that people are expecting it now .... Patience...
This will not apply to America.

That sucks! Is BMW cognizant of how well GT3 and Exige is doing in the US. Not to mention lesser hardcore cars like Evo and STI.

 

[EnI]

If only they acquired that damn Aston Martin, they would create a new platform, use it for both brands, please afficianados and make money.

BMW Group miss a luxury sporty-performance coupe brand quite badly. AM price was just to high to achieve positive synergies.
But not having Bentley in their portfolio - that's still a huge shock for BMW.

But with pushing F12 6er a bit upmarket, introducing new 8er & new Z8 (and M-exclusive spin-off coupe) BMW will fill all the luxury sporty performance coupe gaps with BMW brand in the end. Mind that upcoming BMW large platform (for all large BMW cars excl. X5 /X6) is kind a modular platform - so the development of such cars will be cheaper. But that will take some time.

Yet it's more evident (after retaining MINI only) how desperately BMW need Rover brand now. I don't know why BMW sold Rover brand anyway??? Brand, not the company. As you know the Rover brand was sold
to Ford in 2006 (who earlier also bought Land Rover division from BMW AG). But that's another story.

 

[coolraoul]

Wasn't it a former Rover dealer that bought Rover for a very little amount of money? And the Chinese bought the rights for the Rover 75, now renamed Roewe?

Or did I miss something? He only bought the company, without the name Rover in fact? Then, why isn't Ford using or selling the name Rover?

And, who has the rights for Triumph, and all these little Roadsters companies?

I think I'm a bit confused about this story...

 

[EnI]

Wasn't it a former Rover dealer that bought Rover for a very little amount of money? And the Chinese bought the rights for the Rover 75, now renamed Roewe?

Or did I miss something? He only bought the company, without the name Rover in fact? Then, why isn't Ford using or selling the name Rover?

And, who has the rights for Triumph, and all these little Roadsters companies?

I think I'm a bit confused about this story...

In 2000 BMW sold Rover (the company only, not the brand!) to Phoenix Consortium (led by ex-CEO of Rover) for 10 GBP. Rover trademark was licensed by BMW to Phoenix. MG trademark was sold to Phoenix together with Rover company. As well as the following trademarks: Morris, Wolseley, Austin.

Later two Chinese companies fought for Rover Company - one was SAIC, the other was Nanjing. Nanjing won in the end, yet SAIC managed to acquire the copyrights for Rover know-how (incl. design trademarks of Rover cars). Nanjing started MG branded car production, SAIC continued Rover 75 production yet under Roewe name, slightly facelifted design and new badge. Ironically in few months SAIC will acquire Nanjing - so the Rover & MG will be reunited again.

When BMW sold Land Rover to Ford they promised Ford a right of first refusal when BMW would be selling Rover trademark (due Land Rover trademark including Rover name, and with buying Rover trademark as well Ford would make LR trademark safer from possible plagiarism). That happened in 2006 when BMW decided to sell Rover trademark, and Ford used its first refusal right, and bought the trademark.

BMW AG own the following ex-Rover Group trademarks:

Riley
Triumph
Mini


Ford own:

Rover
Land Rover
(+ 4 more ex-BritishLeyland trademarks - linked with Jaguar: Vanden Plas, Lanchester, Jaguar, Daimler (Ford gave permission to Daimler AG to use Daimler trademark in corporate nomenclature only!)

Nanjing (soon SAIC) own:
MG
Austin
Morris
Wolseley

British Motor Heritage own:
Standard

BAE Systems own:
Alvis

 

[SCOTT27]

Is that Hamster eating a childs finger?

 

[coolraoul]

Thanks EnI. I effectively had missed some parts of the story . Now it is clear.

Is that Hamster eating a childs finger?

Aha, I hope not...Hope it's a carrot...Who knows...

It's embarrassing, now I'm scared by my own avatar!!

 

[EMpower]

CSL is definetely not cancelled. It's just that the M3 has not been around that long that people are expecting it now .... Patience...
This will not apply to America.

America has strong apetite for CSL.

 

[warot]

On another subject, I think BMW should consider using the trademark CSL name more widely.... I think if they spent more energy using it for the M3, M6 and maybe one series, that would bring in a lot of $$$. This includes selling it in the US though

P.S. without whoring it out too much

 

[Choleric]

BMW Group miss a luxury sporty-performance coupe brand quite badly. AM price was just to high to achieve positive synergies.
But not having Bentley in their portfolio - that's still a huge shock for BMW.

Just curious, why did BMW only acquire Rolls Royce and not Bentley along with it from VW?

 

[Deleted member 25]

Just curious, why did BMW only acquire Rolls Royce and not Bentley along with it from VW?

Because that's what the court decided.