Golf [Article] Fastest ever Golf is officially unveiled and headed to production

[Sunny]

The M3 hasn't been special since the last E30 rolled off the production line.

Define "special"?

 

[Zafiro]

So we talking a price range comparable with the upcoming M2 ?

 

[KiwiRob]

Define "special"?

better, greater, or otherwise different from what is usual.
synonyms: exceptional, unusual, singular, uncommon, notable, noteworthy, remarkable, outstanding, unique

No M3 since the E30 is all that.

 

[Zafiro]

What's special is subjective. Personally I don't ge the M3 E30 hype. It's too old and forgotten.

 

[Sunny]

better, greater, or otherwise different from what is usual.
synonyms: exceptional, unusual, singular, uncommon, notable, noteworthy, remarkable, outstanding, unique

No M3 since the E30 is all that.

And you have driven extensively and lived with every M3 since E30 to come to that conclusion?

What's special is subjective. Personally I don't ge the M3 E30 hype. It's too old and forgotten.

I have only driven one example, so with that caveat, yes, I didn't find anything extraordinarily good about it compared to a E36, the steering feel is nice, but very comparable to E36. Everything else happens lot slower. Ride is harsher. Engine is not as smooth. The hype is because it was a homologation car and comparatively very few were made. Rest is people just parroting what they read cause it is fashionable.

 

[martinbo]

While this could very well be a point, I have to say that, in my experience, the Golf is an insultingly cheap car. I drive a GTI and it was just waaaaaaaaaayyy (12k euros) than a A250 with almost no options. And the GTI has almost every extra except electric seats and pano roof.

So yep, I would not pay that money for a Golf, but it might be much cheaper than other german alternatives with less power.

This post doesn't make sense. There's a key word missing: less or more.

 

[martinbo]

Experts in the know down here in SA say that the best E30 was the 325iS - it too a homologation special down here in SA. It has the creamiest, dreamiest, straight six with a sound to die for.

As for this new Golf - I am led to believe that Golf R is just sublime to drive so I have to put that one on my to-do list.

I have driven the E36, E46 & E46 CSL and E92 M3s. To say that they are not special is like saying sex is overrated: you're just doing it wrong.

 

[KiwiRob]

And you have driven extensively and lived with every M3 since E30 to come to that conclusion?

I've driven several E30's, an E36 and E46, them my interest in M3's tailed off, they're not special, they are just higher performance 3 Series, whereas the E30 was bespoke, it's bodyshell was different, it had a unique engine, it was built with a purpose.

What's special is subjective. Personally I don't ge the M3 E30 hype. It's too old and forgotten.

It's not forgotten at all. Prices on them are heading for the sky, especially the special editions and 2.5 litre models.

 

[Zafiro]

It's not forgotten at all. Prices on them are heading for the sky, especially the special editions and 2.5 litre models.

Could care less, lots of weirdos in this world. Paying over prices for cars. Just because you can find a used one for sale doesn't mean they are easy to sell.

Here is one for sale for you.
http://www.blocket.se/horby/BMW_M3_E30_220Hk_Unik_60379871.htm?ca=23_15&w=3

If I want an old M3 I get myself M3 E46 CSL rathen than a E30.

 

[klier]

I love disliking nonsense.

More. I want MOOOORE

If I want an old M3 I get myself M3 E46 CSL rathen than a E30.

Good luck robbing a back!

 

[KiwiRob]

Experts in the know down here in SA say that the best E30 was the 325iS - it too a homologation special down here in SA. It has the creamiest, dreamiest, straight six with a sound to die for.
.

We had 325is in NZ as well, if I remember correctly they were badged as M325is.

 

[tristatez28lt1]

Here it is. First spy shots of the uber Golf.

2L I4 Turbo
4WD
400 - 420hp
600 NM
7 speed DSG (DQ500 from new 2016 A6 and A7)
50,000 Euros
Wave design brake discs (a la R8)

 

[savage-It]

I just imagine this "thing"...doing his job on Stelvio Pass...Bye bye supercars...

 

[Gianclaudio]

I love disliking nonsense.

More. I want MOOOORE

HAHAHA. Thanks Klier, you made my day...hell, my week. I just lol'ed so bad!

 

[Sunny]

I've driven several E30's, an E36 and E46, them my interest in M3's tailed off, they're not special, they are just higher performance 3 Series, whereas the E30 was bespoke, it's bodyshell was different, it had a unique engine, it was built with a purpose.

Except you are wrong. S14 used by E30 M3 was based on M10 block. The only M3 to get a completely bespoke engine, not based on a normal 3er engine, was E9x M3. So please, go pedal your ignorance somewhere else.

Experts in the know down here in SA say that the best E30 was the 325iS - it too a homologation special down here in SA. It has the creamiest, dreamiest, straight six with a sound to die for.

Tell me about it. The US spec E36 M3 got a later version of that engine. And "creamy" or "silky" exactly describes it. It even shames the Mezger in "creaminess". Coming out of a 2nd hand on-ramp, rev-ing it out and rowing through the gears shifting near the redline is a surreal and special experience even today.

 

[KiwiRob]

Except you are wrong. S14 used by E30 M3 was based on M10 block. The only M3 to get a completely bespoke engine, not based on a normal 3er engine, was E9x M3. So please, go pedal your ignorance somewhere else.

Comparing the S14 to the M10 is like comparing the Mclaren S70/2 to the M70, similar architecture but that's about it.

Tell me about it. The US spec E36 M3 got a later version of that engine. And "creamy" or "silky" exactly describes it. It even shames the Mezger in "creaminess". Coming out of a 2nd hand on-ramp, rev-ing it out and rowing through the gears shifting near the redline is a surreal and special experience even today.

No it did not the early US spec E36 M3's used 3.0 version of the 325's M50 engine, the engine used in the 325IS was an M20.

 

[Sunny]

Comparing the S14 to the M10 is like comparing the Mclaren S70/2 to the M70, similar architecture but that's about it.

No it was not just the same architecture, S14 used the M10 block. And the same can be said for S50B30/32 and S54 compared to the M50/54 they were derived from. The only truly bespoke engine was S65. So yes, your claim E30 M3 is the only M3 with an unique engine is categorically wrong.

No it did not the early US spec E36 M3's used 3.0 version of the 325's M50 engine, the engine used in the 325IS was an M20.

And did you think M50 just appeared out of thin air? It was obviously a development of M20. And the M52 was a further development of that (out of which S52 in my car was developed from). Hence my specific use of the term -

a later version of that engine

instead of spelling out the whole lineage. But my bad for assuming some basic level of comprehension.

 

[Giannis]

Ok guys, I have "BMW - A history of engines" in front of me.

S14 used by E30 M3 was based on M10 block.

That's almost correct. The entire truth is:

"the block of the four-cylinder M10 volume production engine had a bore of 93.4mm. With a stroke of 84 mm, this gave a capacity of 2.3 liters for the M3. The cylinder head was identical to that of the S38l in fact the first experimental engines used a cut and welded S38 cylinder head"

No it did not the early US spec E36 M3's used 3.0 version of the 325's M50 engine

That's almost correct. Both the euro and the US versions of the S50 were based on the M50.

The euro S50 had a new two-part cylinder head that did not have the individual tappet/ bearing carriers of the M50. Bores in the upper half of the head, as in the S38 and the S14, carried the bucket-type tappets with their shims for valve clearance adjustment. The S50 was also fitted with an individual throttle valve for each port, plus a special VANOS system which allowed a continuous or step-free variation of the inlet-valve timing.

Now, the S50/US was an M50 with its capacity increased to 3.0l. It's specific output was increased by altering the valve timing. This 244hp engine had a single central throttle valve and used the VANOS system from the M50 production engine.

The S52/US engine was also a tuned and larger-capacity variant of the new M52 production engine.

Now, history lessons aside, not a single M3 engine (S65 aside) was purpose built from a blank paper. All were heavily based on regular, mass production engines, yet with a series of modifications that made them, well, better.

That said, someone insisting that the E30 M3 was the single best M3 of all ages based on some engine myths is the single most ignorant thing I heard today.

I, out of all people, can understand the joy of having a late 80's/ early 90's car. It has a certain character that I find brilliant. But the single best M3? Certainly not...

That said, I would appreciate it if we stick to the Golf...

 

[KiwiRob]

That said, someone insisting that the E30 M3 was the single best M3 of all ages based on some engine myths is the single most ignorant thing I heard today.

I don't base it on the engine, I'm basing it on the complete package and the reason why the vehicle was built in the first instance, no other M3 has the pedigree of the original. It's the one which will be remembered long after all the rest are crushed.

 

[Zafiro]

Ok, let Kiwi have his view. Too me M3 CSL is better car than M3 E30 and more special too.
M3 E30 was a good car back then but compare it to a modern Golf GTi and the M3 E30 wouldn't match the GTi.


Now back to topic. What's the name of the blue color we see on those shots?