Vs 2014 Merc S-Class vs. Bentley Flying Spur vs. Rolls Royce Ghost

[LaArtist]

Haha Does it hang with this crew?

Hell it owns this crew.

Look at those interiors? looks like old boats from the 80s.

Both of them are technically retarded compared to the S class.

Hell i think they are even technically retarded compared to the previous S class.

And for those who run after the name, watch Mercedes make a car to rival the Mulsanne and Phantom with a star on the hood.
And then watch them sell that thing like lemonde.

Mercedes are not BMW or Audi.

They can easily hang with the top, they have done it if you go back in history and they will do it again.

So when it comes to these half assed bentleys and Rollers ( for me the real ones are Phantom and Mulsanne), please give it a real challenge.

 

[Merc1]

For a set of things, type of vehicle, price, exterior design, brand cachet, etc..
At other times the Merecedes 600 was on par with Rolls Royce models, but this is not the case,
With the Bentley mmmmm aproches a little more ......
But deep down still a stair before Bentley or Rolls Royce.
But again the interior is sublime and is head to head with Rolls and Bentley, but this is not enough to put them on the same level.

It would be like saying the M6 for having one of the best and most luxurious interiors I've ever seen, is at the same level as a Aventador for example. -

So in other words, nothing beyond the name then. You aren't saying anything of substance here.

An Aventador will obliterate an M6 on the road, so that is a poor example. The V12 S-Class models have nothing to fear from Bentley or Rolls, especially the previous and upcoming S65 AMG. Totally different story from an M6 to an Aventador.

M

 

[JHF]

And more and more, I going to like the Mercs interiors, I just love them.

 

[Merc1]

To me, the S-class can't be compared to the others. It's not in the same league, how much you would want it to be.

If someboody says Bentley or Rolls Royce, their eyes light up way more then you say S-Class.

Why though, which Bentley or Rolls? Flying Spur and Ghost really aren't bespoke vehicles when you get right down to it.

Its a cachet, name, status thing, not just a superior car in the case of the Ghost and Spur. The new S-Class V12 models are going to pose a major threat to the Ghost and FS IMO.

Mulsanne and Phantom, are still untouchable.


Mercedes and others made superior cars to anything Rolls/Bentley when those two were under Vickers ownership. Its not hard to imagine that Mercedes could now top their entry level cars now or at the very least compete with them again, especially when the V12 models arrive with an even more luxury interior. Tech wise the S is already superior. Name is all Bentley FS and Rolls Ghost have over the S IMO.


M

 

[JLBM]

Why though, which Bentley or Rolls? Flying Spur and Ghost really aren't bespoke vehicles when you get right down to it.

Its a cachet, name, status thing, not just a superior car in the case of the Ghost and Spur. The new S-Class V12 models are going to pose a major threat to the Ghost and FS IMO.

Mulsanne and Phantom, are still untouchable.


Mercedes and others made superior cars to anything Rolls/Bentley when those two under Vickers ownership. Its not hard to imagine that Mercedes could now top their entry level cars or at the very least compete with them again, especially when the V12 models arrive with an even more luxury interior. Tech wise the S is already superior. Name is all Bentley FS and Rolls Ghost have over the S IMO.


M

100 % agree with you.

 

[Gianclaudio]

LOL, the S class is not in the same league? The 600, W116, W126, W140 were head and shoulders over the RR/Bentley equivalent, not only technically, but in image/prestige too.
It wasn't until the Phantom that Rolls got their act together, and in Bentley case, with the Mulsanne. The Continental in all their variations has been and is a footballer's car.

 

[LaArtist]

Ile leave this here, and on my way out i just want to remind you.
There is a S600 coming, 2 AMGs oh and a bespoke Grosser.



Still think they can't hang with RR and Bentley?

 

[Sovereign]

What a beautiful interior in ther S class. Wow!

Imo, RR does not have a car that can match the interior of Designo equipped S class. Both Phantom and Ghost's interior "look" old not old world. If you want to see opulance and old world charm with beautiful style, Bentley is the only opposition here. Flying Spur or Mulsanne both are very very attractive. Both Phantom and Flying Spur have unattractive exterior designs so the oppposition is Ghost and Mulsanne for the new S considering the exterior design.

On the whole, the S may not be competitve in the Phantom class even with S65 AMG. If Mercedes comes out with bespoke design based on the current S they can surely compete in Phantom class. But it may not be a runaway success like they had with the best sedan of all time the W100 600 Grosser. At that time Mercedes was also quite exclusive with only 2 model line. Technically they were far superior. With A, B, and other lowly classes, Mercedes does not have the brand cachet as it was in early days imo. And more than few in the Phantom class may feel the same. However a bespoke design would certainly help Mercedes compete effectively. Maybach is the real case study here. It was not bespoke enough.

 

[Merc1]

I'm just really wondering what could they do that is bespoke, yet not too retro to recapture the spirit of the W100 600 Gosser though? I mean such a car now would just be so epic, but they can't have another flop like Maybach. If Rolls is really coming out with a V16 engine and Bugatti a W16 sedan then Mercedes needs to take the W222 chassis beyond their wildest dreams and create a whole other car, totally unique with probably something other than a V12. I would just love to see this happen. Mercedes naturally has the engineering talent, but do they have the right design and concept for the job is the question imo.


M

 

[Sovereign]

W100 was not a totally different design than what Mercedes was offereing in 1960s. W108 and the fintail designs were the base for w100 I think. But Paul Bracq and the team really did their magic in tranforming the very effective design language in to a masterpiece design. Maybach on the other hand borrowed from W220 inside and the headlights. In the process it became less attractive than the S class which was cheaper. For me Maybach design was uncomfortable. To some extent simply gross, both outside and inside. W100 looked way better than the fintail and better than w108. That should be the case when you are going upwards.

 

[deity]

Thank God! yes, Yes, YES it does! The S-class is on par! Great, done!

Now PLEASE, Please, please BMW AG, wake up, smell the coffee and get to terms with the FACT that you really, yes really own Rolls-Royce Motor Cars! That's a great start!

Secondly I will ask and begin with PLEASE!!!! No more BMW 7 Series to compete with RR, Bentley, S-class. NO MORE!

Here is the big idea for the next BMW 7 Series: to compete 110% head-on with the likes of Porsche Panamera, Maserati Quaddroporte etc.

Here is where you begin BMW AG: Every next gen 7er should begin with CRFP, Aluminum and think M7 Grand Coupe...huh!? get the idea!?

Goes for you too Rupert Stadler! Next A8 must join the Luxury Sport Saloons, capish!?

We have more that enough Ultimate Luxury to go around in this small world, welcome to the club S-class. Listening BMW? And again remember you can milk Rolls-Royce in the Ultimate Luxury segment as much as you see fit, oraait!?

Now again, BMW, AUDI, Porsche....DO THE LUXURY SPORT SALOON BATTLE!!!! PLEASE!!! Don't be stupid, f-up and spiteful BMW. Next 7 must be a Sport Saloon!

I agree with a lot of what is said here, only that they should keep the existing 7er model and come up with a CS line that does just that. The 7 is doing quite well for BMW, and where it is positioned now appeals to the target market. Though I don't have specific data, I'm sure the 7 outsells the Panamera, and absolutely obliterates the Quattroporte in sales.

Honestly if size didn't determine the price/status of a car (larger is more expensive/better), then I would doubt Porsche and Maserati would make their sedans so large. It's just that if they made it smaller- which would make them dynamically superior- they would be regarded as cheaper and a dilution of the brand. With BMW, they already have the 3, 5, 6 to cover the dynamic side of their sedan portfolio.

The 7er can be dynamic and sporty, don't get me wrong, but foregoing the luxurious image in turn for a sporty one in this market isn't as effective as keeping where the car is positioned now. It's still considered the best drivers car in the Big Three, but caters to the waftiness the current market enjoys.

 

[Merc1]

That really isn't true anymore, the A8 is the drivers car out of the big 3 in this segment now from what I've seen.

M

 

[Deckhook]

I would say that technically the S-class is probably well ahead of the others and it's interior design and quality (based on these pics) looks equally as good but (and it's a big but) it just doesn't have the image, presence or class of the other two and it's why the likes of Lord Sugar and other powers of industry will continue to use the RR and Bentley.

 

[Human]

I agree with a lot of what is said here, only that they should keep the existing 7er model and come up with a CS line that does just that. The 7 is doing quite well for BMW, and where it is positioned now appeals to the target market. Though I don't have specific data, I'm sure the 7 outsells the Panamera, and absolutely obliterates the Quattroporte in sales.

Honestly if size didn't determine the price/status of a car (larger is more expensive/better), then I would doubt Porsche and Maserati would make their sedans so large. It's just that if they made it smaller- which would make them dynamically superior- they would be regarded as cheaper and a dilution of the brand. With BMW, they already have the 3, 5, 6 to cover the dynamic side of their sedan portfolio.

The 7er can be dynamic and sporty, don't get me wrong, but foregoing the luxurious image in turn for a sporty one in this market isn't as effective as keeping where the car is positioned now. It's still considered the best drivers car in the Big Three, but caters to the waftiness the current market enjoys.

Good point(s) you made there and I see exactly what you mean in terms of the 7er's market position. I just want to ad that my way of thinking may sound extreme I agree. Yet the picture I have in mind is a new generation BMW 7 Series with all the tech and luxury expected from this class with just more emphasis on being a Luxury SPORTS saloon, not to the extreme of actually creating a new CS class. Keep whats making the 7er a strong competitor I agree, just keep the kitsch out of the occasion. Or in simpler terms, 40% more 6er GC, Panamera etc. How? A 40% more dynamic/aggressive design (lower and more raked glasshouse), wheels that fit more snug with the body and a longer wheelbase for the luxury and space, but most importantly go Ape with new body-in-white weight reduction (CRFP, CF and Aluminum) also shave as much as possible on the unsprung mass. Make it the nimblest, most driver orientated and at the same time use the best OE-suppliers has to offer in terms of NVH reduction - as M-B did with the W222.

NVH reduction - to the MAX and the best technology can offer now.
CRFP materials as BMW now have it's hand in that cookie jar.
ZF has to come to the party and proof themselves at reducing the unsprung mass to the minimum on the front and rear axle subframes. Also get the Damping and Rebound on the struts just bloody perfect.
Aluminum - the use of his material in abundance.
Improve the steering ratio and handling geared towards bettering the Panamera in every imaginable way.
ZF again may already have a new transmission in the works.
BMW already has the engines, just the design has to be polished as said.

I am just dreaming a bit. Albeit BMW is a BMW, 7er or 1er it still has to be a BMW at that

I like this:

 

[gdm]

Absolutly S-Class's V8 and V12 models.

 

[aleks_16]

The new 7 should become more luxury but still BMW and targed the S-class. The "8" gran coupe (maybe a normal coupe and cabrio,too) should resolve the problem and be the sportier luxus car to targe the Panamera. The 6er gran coupe should be a sportier 5 and not a sportier 7er.

 

[Human]

Ile leave this here, and on my way out i just want to remind you.
There is a S600 coming, 2 AMGs oh and a bespoke Grosser.



Still think they can't hang with RR and Bentley?

I for one may not want a RR, Bentley, W222 cabin to drive in (more sporty for me, for now) BUT you have my vote. The W222 S-class is on par with Bentley and Rolls for sure!

And that is the best Navy-blue color EVER on a car seat.

 

[Mr Robert]

...while the S-Class with its non plus ultra technology and engineering at half/one-third of the price appeals to cognoscenti and old money types.

Here, old money drives Volovs... does that qualify the XC70 for the comparison? Or the Golf, for creating its own segment?

 

[Kilcrohane]

I would say the S-class just doesn't have the image, presence or class of the other two and it's why the likes of Lord Sugar and other powers of industry will continue to use the RR and Bentley.

Lord Alan Sugar is hardly a 'power of industry'. He would chose the Roller because it's the obvious choice for new money, and being he's a British taxpayer-funded legislator and Jewish would probably not wish to be associated with a German brand - as opposed to the almost as German-contented Rolls Royces.

Outside of The City, New York City and Los Angeles - for fairly obvious reasons - Mercedes-Benz and the S-Class do not suffer such pre-conceptions about being inferior image wise/tainted by history to Rolls-Royce and Bentley - both of course saved from oblivion by German money and tech anyway.

 

[Levi68]

Yes S Class is better than Bentley and Rolls Royce and Quattroporte in all ways. More bespoke? No.

One would pick an S Class over a Rolls Royce just as all pick a BMW 6 Series over a Maserati GranTurismo.