Why doesn't BMW participate in DTM?

[Imhotep Evil]

PC Valkyrie is from Canada, a North American. To them motor sport I supose was/is about RWD cars.

In Europe we had FWD cars from Citroen, Saab, Mini highly succesfull in rally and touring car competions since the 1950s, so our I supose our mentality is a bit diferent.

 

[Habitual Speeder]

PC Valkyrie is from Canada, a North American. To them motor sport I supose was/is about RWD cars.

In Europe we had FWD cars from Citroen, Saab, Mini highly succesfull in rally and touring car competions since the 1950s, so our I supose our mentality is a bit diferent.

Not all Canucks share his view, thanks.

 

[PC Valkyrie]

Hold on here. Why am I being labeled as a FWD hater? I have posted many times before that FWD cars work just as well as RWD cars for many people and they CAN be sporty.....just look at cars made by Honda/Acura, and even the VW Golf GTi.

It's on this forum where many OTHER people have bashed FWD road cars. There was a recent Road & Track thread comparing the Acura TL vs IS350 vs G35 thread and many people just didn't give the TL any credit because it was FWD, even though it had the highest skidpad number. I used to drive a VW Golf GTi 5 speed manual. Loved it. My brother has an Acura TSX (Euro Honda Accord), and it handles great too.

Many people here have said that for pursits, RWD is the ONLY way to go, so I'm frankly surprised how much sympathy there is for FWD cars now when I mention that the WTCC has many FWD cars competing.

So Imhotep, please don't posting assumptions you have about me being only a RWD fan. There are many other people that have laughed at cars just because they are FWD. Think about it this way, do you think BMW should go FWD? You always praise BMW for their cars' sporty performance. Do you think they can achieve the same degree of sportiness with a FWD layout? If you do, then I take back my criticism of the WTCC where the RWD 320Si is competing with other cars which are all FWD.

And Just_me, I have driven many fine FWD cars. Believe it or not, most cars in Canada are FWD because people want a safer car in the winter, as there is less chance of a FWD car getting stuck in the winter because there is more weight over the drive wheels. Prior to buying a Mercedes, all my previous cars were FWD.

 

[Zafiro]

And Just_me, I have driven many fine FWD cars. Believe it or not, most cars in Canada are FWD because people want a safer car in the winter, as there is less chance of a FWD car getting stuck in the winter because there is more weight over the drive wheels. Prior to buying a Mercedes, all my previous cars were FWD.

I hear you dude you little hater!! j/k

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Ok let's clear things up a little.

FWD - I'm OK with it on small(er) cars like those you mentioned.
Mini and Saab - quintesetially FWD (could/should also go AWD, but never RWD, FWD part of their DNA)
BMW - RWD and RWD-AWD, never should go FWD (RWD part of its DNA).

On racing
- in touring car and rally FWD cars were succesfull for the last half of century so people, here in Europe, do not see it unsuall.
- sequentials and dual clutches were/are used in racing.

Purists RWD and manuals only one OK = few
Motor sport viewers/fans FWD, RWD, AWD + sequential, duals, manuals OK also = many

Everything clear.

 

[Habitual Speeder]

I'm not sure why folks get so bent over what a car should have...regardless of the layout chosen (FWD, RWD, or AWD), the only pertinent question is whether or not it works for that particular vehicle.

As for what makes a racing series more exciting? That depends on the individual, as well. The RWD, V8 combo in NASCAR does little for me, but I love to watch other series with V8s (CART, F1, ALMS, etc.).

Back to the original topic...do I think BMW should race in DTM? That's up to them, really. Sure, it would be cool to see them battle it out with the other German manufacturers, but that doesn't seem likely. Also, I'm not sure I agree that BMW has "more to lose" than other manufacturers. Every manufacturer has to make a decision on where they put their motorsport money...there's no guarantee that a manufacturer will win (in any series), so, that's not why they choose to enter it. They simply go where they feel they can field a competitive car. BMW's sales are not predicated on winning on a track...I'd wager that a lot of BMW owners don't follow motorsport, at all.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

I'm not sure why folks get so bent over what a car should have...regardless of the layout chosen (FWD, RWD, or AWD), the only pertinent question is whether or not it works for that particular vehicle.

The bigest RWD car makers in Europe are MB, BMW and Porsche, heck even Ferrari, Aston and Pagani outsell in RWD cars sold brands like Fiat, VW, Opel, Ford, since the later abandoned RWD.
Also big FWD cars usually aren't fun at all, despite that small ones can be or are/were.

As for what makes a racing series more exciting? That depends on the individual, as well. The RWD, V8 combo in NASCAR does little for me, but I love to watch other series with V8s (CART, F1, ALMS, etc.).

Don't like NASCAR either and I like the rest but I hate it that F1 went to V8 from V10s. The new V8 give less power - torque and are burning MORE fuel. So much for cost cutting.

Back to the original topic...do I think BMW should race in DTM? That's up to them, really.

My problem with DTM is that there's only 2 manufacturers invloved and it's no longer worthy of the Touring name.
Touring in the old days meant putting a safety cage, and moding a car to some extent to improve performance/bring it to FIA regulations and then go racing.
DTM nowadays is mostly spec series like NASCAR.
This is also a problem with the WTCC but it's not a bad as DTM and/or NASCAR.

BMW's sales are not predicated on winning on a track...

That's hardly the case for anyone.

I'd wager that a lot of BMW owners don't follow motorsport, at all.

With that I don't agree. BMW onwers, well some, in some countries, were, are
and will continue to be involved in racing legal or not. That's been the case since the 1930s. That also applies to Porsche too. Ofcorse the costumers base has expanted lately.
Motor-sport activities of a manufacturers/brand are not restricted to the Works entries, but there are also partners and privateers.

 

[Habitual Speeder]

The bigest RWD car makers in Europe are MB, BMW and Porsche, heck even Ferrari, Aston and Pagani outsell in RWD cars sold brands like Fiat, VW, Opel, Ford, since the later abandoned RWD.
Also big FWD cars usually aren't fun at all, despite that small ones can be or are/were.

I think that's what I was trying to say. Acura/Honda, for example, makes some great FWD vehicles, but there's no shortage of folks that think they're missing the boat by not making more RWD vehicles. Sure, every layout has its limititations, but, if executed well, it shouldn't be an issue. The best examples of this can be found in racing, actually...look to see how competitive FWD cars are in WTCC, BTCC, & Speed WC Touring.

My problem with DTM is that there's only 2 manufacturers invloved and it's no longer worthy of the Touring name.
Touring in the old days meant putting a safety cage, and moding a car to some extent to improve performance/bring it to FIA regulations and then go racing.
DTM nowadays is mostly spec series like NASCAR.
This is also a problem with the WTCC but it's not a bad as DTM and/or NASCAR.

Yeah, I hear ya. I still love going to see ChampCar (CART) races, but I much prefered the series before it became a spec series...there used to be quite a few engine & chassis manufacturers.

With that I don't agree. BMW onwers, well some, in some countries, were, are
and will continue to be involved in racing legal or not. That's been the case since the 1930s. That also applies to Porsche too. Ofcorse the costumers base has expanted lately.
Motor-sport activities of a manufacturers/brand are not restricted to the Works entries, but there are also partners and privateers.

Maybe, you have to be on this side of the pond for this one...I can think of quite a few example's of folks that buy the car for the company's reputation & have never seen a race (unless, of course, they were complaining that I took over the TV, again).

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Yeah, I hear ya. I still love going to see ChampCar (CART) races, but I much prefered the series before it became a spec series...there used to be quite a few engine & chassis manufacturers.

A sad state of affaires. WRC, WTCC and F1 have moved to much twards specing.

Maybe, you have to be on this side of the pond for this one...I can think of quite a few example's of folks that buy the car for the company's reputation & have never seen a race (unless, of course, they were complaining that I took over the TV, again).

There are customers and there are customers.