E-Class (W211) W211 SBC Failure (Not ours)

[Monster]

I hate to bring this up again because it has been discussed in detail a while ago, and none of us has experienced such a problem.

But today one of my dad's friends told him his 2004 E240 just had a complete brake failure. Fortunately he was not driving fast and he was able to roll to a stop. He said the warning lights came up suddenly and he lost all braking pressure, he was practically standing on the brakes but there wasn't any braking pressure at all. He sent the car in for repair, the mechanic replaced some 'computer chips' and the car is back to normal. I don't know if the car has undergone all the required recall services, and I don't know the exact repair performed by the mechanic.

The exact same problem has also happened to my dad's other friend's 2003 E320, and my friend's dad's 2002 E320.

From what I have seen and read, there is no hydraulic backup system (Gullwing can correct me if I am wrong), so the brakes become completely unassisted when the electronics goes down, and whatever tiny brake pressure your foot would generate were only applied to the front wheels.

I don't know what to make of this really, our E has been fine, same with ree's and wimmer's car, but then again my father's friend's E240 were going fine for 5 years before this happened.

So what do you guys think?

 

[Giannis]

I think that everyone in Australia drives an E-Class

Jokes apart, I think that it was a big fault by Mercedes to rely the car's braking system purely on electronics. Brakes is the most important part of the car when it comes to safety and since you can't rely on electronics 100% there is always room for electric problems.

 

[Monster]

Oh I forgot to mention, both of my dad's friends are in Hong Kong, my friend's dad is in Australia.

 

[bum-man]

I'm pretty sure there is supposed to be some mechanical backup system for the brakes...Or maybe that is U.S. only?

 

[cawimmer430]

We've been very lucky with our W211 E320 from 2002. It's even more amazing since this car was one of the first models produced. My dad saw the new E-Class a few weeks after it was presented to the public and literally ordered it a few days later after a few testdrives. The early models were supposed to be the ones with constant electrical issues. We've never had any.

Our E320 was sent to the shop for the MB mechanics to check out the brakes during the SBC recall announcement. No problems were found. Nothing has ever gone wrong on the car in fact. One time in the winter the battery was flat, but I suppose this was because the car had not been driven in a long time and it was a particularly cold week. That hardly qualifies as "unreliable" though.

In Germany, the official word was that this problem mainly affected E-Classes that were driven in constant stop-and-go traffic or over long distances. That basically meant taxis and diesels and maybe the occasional long-distance-petrol driver.

 

[Gullwing]

When the SBC pump goes out there is a hydraulic backup (manual braking to the front wheels only) you need to stand on the pedal with everything you have to get it to work. If you can think straight hit the parking brake also and downshift.

I know in the US the warranty on the pump unit is now 10 year 100K miles? Not sure in your area of the world. You can probably expect to replace the several thousand dollar unit every 8-10 years.

There are several recalls on the unit, mainly coding.

 

[K-A]

This is scary. I think as W211's get older, we (hopefully not) might start seeing more problems with SBC.

There's a Website I've looked at that shows totaled cars, A LOT of the W211's have a big red "Stop, Braking Malfunction!" Or whatever it says in the speedo digital display.

Really freaky stuff.

 

[Mr Robert]

...and the manufacturers will always say this cannot happen. Should it happen anyway, the customer is told that he or she is lying.

 

[Giannis]

So you just photograph the failure message on the car's screen, you show it to the dealer, and you threaten to sue them if they don't fix your problem. Same case with me and Volvo, when I had an anti-spin failure, more than 10 times on a row.

Though, the worst part of the problem is, that when the SBC system fails, you can only brake based on your foot strenght, and you can only brake the front wheels, or use the handbrake. So, it can get pretty dangerous...

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

I've always read that there was a mechanical backup that requred A lot of pressure to work.

Our E had several SBC failure messages come up, but not once did we actually lose braking ability.

 

[Gullwing]

There's a Website I've looked at that shows totaled cars, A LOT of the W211's have a big red "Stop, Braking Malfunction!" Or whatever it says in the speedo digital display.

Really freaky stuff.

Well just because the red message is in the IC does not mean it was the cause of the accident. If there was any damage to the SBC system or electrical system that message would come up.

 

[dcng]

It's a good thing we got a fact-lift run out model of the W211. No more SBC.

 

[Nicks]

This isn't a failure. SBC is supposed to work for a limited time (approx 70k km.) and then be replaced. That's why MB gives lifetime warranty for it.

 

[Monster]

This isn't a failure. SBC is supposed to work for a limited time (approx 70k km.) and then be replaced. That's why MB gives lifetime warranty for it.

Wimmer's car and Ree's car has both gone over 70k km without any problems, I think they didn't replace their SBC either.

 

[Gullwing]

This isn't a failure. SBC is supposed to work for a limited time (approx 70k km.) and then be replaced. That's why MB gives lifetime warranty for it.

What are you trying to say???

 

[coolraoul]

This isn't a failure. SBC is supposed to work for a limited time (approx 70k km.) and then be replaced. That's why MB gives lifetime warranty for it.

You have any source? I guess no...

SBC is supposed to last as long as the vehicle does.

And furthermore, I velieve that given the much more powerful pump, it allows the ESP to last as long too (an average ESP system cannot work too long; generally it is designed to last 300.000kms with an average use, the pump has to be replaced earlier if the ESP is heavily used and later if not so used. It means the big majority of cars will never need a replacement as either the ESP is not too used, or the car doesn't go as far as 300.000++ kms).

The SBC has no such limitations, and some W211 E-Classes have 600.000kms and the first SBC system.

 

[Nicks]

You have any source? I guess no...

I believe that official Mercedes-Benz dealer is a pretty good source smth tells me they know more than you

Wimmer's car and Ree's car has both gone over 70k km without any problems, I think they didn't replace their SBC either.

As i said approximate 70k. Could be more or less. It depends on how you use brakes

What are you trying to say???

Sbc is supposed to be changed for free. I've done that a few months ago, and it cost me nothing (2004 e-class - that means no general warranty)

 

[coolraoul]

Could you post a source, an official statement about this? if yes, you have all my sincerest apologies.

It's just that it seems highly suspicious fo MB to sell a car whose brake system has to be changed every 70k kms!!

If it proves right, I'll definitely consider the pre-FL W211, Maybach, SLR and pre-FL SL to be cars I will never ever intend to buy regardless of their price. It is an idea I just cannot live with that something like the braking system has such a limited lifetime.

But I really don't think it is true, I've never heard of that. Would be a shame.

 

[Gullwing]

MB did not build a braking system that is only going to last 70K kms and if you think that...
warranty in the US on the SBC system is ten year 100K miles.

The newer (mainly software) and pumps are designed to last longer than the first ones.

The dealer might know more than me, but not much

 

[Nicks]

Could you post a source, an official statement about this? if yes, you have all my sincerest apologies.

It's just that it seems highly suspicious fo MB to sell a car whose brake system has to be changed every 70k kms!!

I reckon they haven't made any statements about it.

You don't have to change the braking system, sbc itself is a 10-20cm. electronic box. Whole procedure takes couple hours (service should get confirmation from germans)

Don't you find highly suspicious that MB were making cars which were braking down several dozen times a year (w220,w163 etc)?