VW purchase stake in BMW's CF partner

[Giannis]

From AutoBlog:

Germany in court again over "VW Law," could face fines of nearly $375,000/day

We haven't heard about the Volkswagen Law in a while, but that doesn't mean the EU Commission has forgotten about it. The law gives the state of Lower Saxony, with a 20.1-percent stake in VW, veto rights on a takeover deal, which means no one's ever going to take over VW because its home state won't allow it. The law came in handy when Porsche was working to gobble up Volkswagen. The law was struck down by the EU Court of Justice in 2007. Germany then scrapped the old VW Law but rewrote another one that gave Lower Saxony the same rights with different legalese circumventing the spirit of the court's decision.

The EU competition oversight body is taking Germany back to court over the law, but wants to put some pain into the judgment: it wants Germany fined €31,000 ($41,000 USD) per day for every day since the original 2007 judgment. It also wants the court to issue a second ruling, and if Germany doesn't bring the law into line with the ruling, the EU Commission wants Germany fined €282,725 per day (nearly $375,000) until the Germans comply.

No federal German authorities have responded to the latest EU thrust, but the premier of Lower Saxony offered this: "Doesn't Europe have better things to do?"

 

[Giannis]

And this came from Audi today:

A great combination: AUDI AG invests in csi group of companies

• Minority interest in development services provider csi
• Technical Development chief Michael Dick: “Together we have already brought plenty of successful projects onto the road.”
• Building on partnership with expert in interior and body development

AUDI AG is planning to acquire a 49 percent stake in the csi group of companies. The brand with the four rings will use the acquired expertise to create additional capacity for the development of new models.

“The engineers at csi have been a reliable partner to us for more than a decade,” commented Michael Dick, Member of the Board of Management for Technical Development at AUDI AG. “Together we have already brought plenty of successful projects onto the road – the R8 being a prime example.”

Steffen Boll, Managing Director and co-founder of csi verwaltungs GmbH, is convinced that Audi and csi will benefit from the deeper relationship. “Take lightweight construction, for example. Our approaches to intelligent composite construction are a good fit – there will be plenty of scope for synergy.”

The core areas of expertise of csi’s workforce of around 250 include interior and body development, as well as lightweight construction based on an innovative mix of materials. Alongside its Development Center in Neckarsulm, csi has operations in Ingolstadt, Sindelfingen, Munich, Winterberg, Wolfsburg, Weissach and Zwickau.

The planned investment in csi is currently being examined by the relevant antitrust authorities.

 

[SCOTT27]

If you want to know what is really interesting about Porsche which has been mentioned in the German business press is how they are going all out to be the reluctant step-child who does not bond with the new mother. If you take the latest V8 for example - shared across VAG and hopefully Porsche and the next Panamera? No, Porsche have designed the front end of the next Panamera to be lower so it does not accomodate the engine , there is other reports on other difficult forms of action. But it seems that not everyone in Porsche is ready to be assimilated yet or without a fight.

As for Klatten she is in real life and business very ruthless, and very protective of BMW. So they have plans in motion to stop further VAG interference at SGL. Which means if you are one of the people who let VAG in the door. You will be the first out.

 

[Mr Robert]

This is just the development I was thinking of. You will get this when such a big and odd family is forced together.

 

[Deckhook]

I would says its the mutual dislike to the Porsche family and Piech.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

If you want to know what is really interesting about Porsche which has been mentioned in the German business press is how they are going all out to be the reluctant step-child who does not bond with the new mother. If you take the latest V8 for example - shared across VAG and hopefully Porsche and the next Panamera? No, Porsche have designed the front end of the next Panamera to be lower so it does not accomodate the engine , there is other reports on other difficult forms of action. But it seems that not everyone in Porsche is ready to be assimilated yet or without a fight.

As for Klatten she is in real life and business very ruthless, and very protective of BMW. So they have plans in motion to stop further VAG interference at SGL. Which means if you are one of the people who let VAG in the door. You will be the first out.

Another reason why BMW>VAG. They don't need to go to anyone to ask the head if they want to drop an engine inside a car.

 

[Giannis]

Another reason why BMW>VAG. They don't need to go to anyone to ask the head if they want to drop an engine inside a car.

Oh, com'on!

BMW is a company as well. They make cars for profit, not because we all live in a nice pink world full of good intentions!

In absolutely no car company, the engineers, no matter how "romantic" they are, have the power to just stuff a car with any engine they want. Engines' planning is a product of carefull and presise market research, economy of scales, and so on.

Because, if BMW could just put any engine they wanted in a car, explain me the lack of N/A 6 cylinder engines in the F30

 

[Sunny]

^I am guessing what he meant was you don't have to go ask anyone out side the company.

 

[Deckhook]

^ Many would say Audi have had a pretty free reign of their affairs and to a large extent this has been true with the majority of their models having platforms, drivetrains and engines unique to themselves. Maybe when you are successful at running your own section/company within the group then you don't have to keep asking permission on every major decision you make.

 

[Sunny]

^Who is this "many"? If you want to state an opinion, state it as yours instead of attributing it to some mythical 3rd body. It doesn't make it any more credible.

And if "they" were right why did VAG recently decree that Porsche will be leading the development of future sports cars and large luxury cars, while Audi is stuck with the coveted role of developing SUVs? Sure, VAG might let Audi make some decisions, but the bottom line is, when someone owns you, they get to decide what decisions they even let you make.

 

[Ultimate Car Guy]

^ I'd have agree with Sunny. Audi doesn't have the level of autonomy that an complete independent, like BMW or Daimler, would have.

There was talk within the industry that back in 2002, then new Chairman of Audi, Martin Winterkorn wanted to adapt RWD/AWD platforms for all of its entire product line. However, the then VW Chairman, Bernd Pischetsreider overrruled the plan on cost grounds. Audi then had to continue with its MSB platform as FWD/AWD.

Prime example just there.

 

[Centurion]

I like this VW partnership with BMW. It is key to making CF viable for personal cars. Economies of scale is everything in the automotive industry.

 

[EnI]

In the end all Porsches under VAG will be ... AWD only. Based on VAG modular platform.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

In the end all Porsches under VAG will be ... AWD only. Based on VAG modular platform.

I know you're joking, but the thought made me queasy.

 

[Deckhook]

^Who is this "many"? If you want to state an opinion, state it as yours instead of attributing it to some mythical 3rd body. It doesn't make it any more credible.

The many I was referring to was members of Audi forums across the globe and was just prior to the Porsche inclusion in the group.

And if "they" were right why did VAG recently decree that Porsche will be leading the development of future sports cars and large luxury cars, while Audi is stuck with the coveted role of developing SUVs? Sure, VAG might let Audi make some decisions, but the bottom line is, when someone owns you, they get to decide what decisions they even let you make.

I personally feel this is the smartest move made by VAG as no other manufacturer has such success is making performance based motorcars, I am sure if the roles had been reversed and Audi were the more recognised sportscar manufacturer the decision would have been for Audi to take up that role. As it is the group as a whole are playing to the strengths of each of it's individual companies.

^ I'd have agree with Sunny. Audi doesn't have the level of autonomy that an complete independent, like BMW or Daimler, would have.

There was talk within the industry that back in 2002, then new Chairman of Audi, Martin Winterkorn wanted to adapt RWD/AWD platforms for all of its entire product line. However, the then VW Chairman, Bernd Pischetsreider overrruled the plan on cost grounds. Audi then had to continue with its MSB platform as FWD/AWD.

Prime example just there.

Yeah this was talked about at length on other forums and it was a really surprise that the former head of BMW didn't back this move but in the end there must not have been the resources to undertake such a dramatic move. Who knows, maybe in the future and with Porsche's input in platform development this move might be talked about once more and might even come to pass.

Then the competition will be very worried.

 

[Sunny]

I personally feel this is the smartest move made by VAG as no other manufacturer has such success is making performance based motorcars, I am sure if the roles had been reversed and Audi were the more recognised sportscar manufacturer the decision would have been for Audi to take up that role. As it is the group as a whole are playing to the strengths of each of it's individual companies.

No one is debating here if it is the right or wrong decision. The point is it wasn't Audi's decision, but VAG's. And it isn't just sports cars that was given to Porsche, but also large luxury cars. Oh, well, I am sure the engineers who worked on R8 are excited to work on SUVs cause apparently that is their "strength".

 

[Deckhook]

^ Any sub division of a parent company have to answer back, it's the same for Rolls Royce and Mini. Do you honestly believe M-Division have a bottomless pit of resources and can build anything they desire.... of course not, a profitability case has to be made for everything and in this BMW are no different than VAG.

 

[braaf]

^But there again M division is still BMW, where as Audi,Porsche and all the rest have to answer to VW.

 

[Deckhook]

^But there again M division is still BMW, where as Audi,Porsche and all the rest have to answer to VW.

Don't really see the point you are making here, it still has to answer back to the parent company which was the similarity I was making.

Regarding Porsche's inclusion in the group I personally see it as a good thing for them, I don't believe Volkswagen will place the same level of control on them as it does on the others but where as in the past Porsche needed cars like the Cayenne to get the finances to develop the kind of cars we all adore them for, now Volkswagen's purse picks up the tab and that's a mighty full purse.

Can't wait for the first fruits of this joining.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Don't really see the point you are making here, it still has to answer back to the parent company which was the similarity I was making.

Regarding Porsche's inclusion in the group I personally see it as a good thing for them, I don't believe Volkswagen will place the same level of control on them as it does on the others but where as in the past Porsche needed cars like the Cayenne to get the finances to develop the kind of cars we all adore them for, now Volkswagen's purse picks up the tab and that's a mighty full purse.

Can't wait for the first fruits of this joining.

The point he's making is Porsche can no longer make the car Porsche wants to. It has to be a car VW wants and approves of. Not Porsche. The ///M Division doesn't have to go and talk to say any parent company. It's directly from BMW. They know what is expected of them from the get-go and they build a car within the guidelines that are given to them.

My personal opinion is that VAG is too big for it's own good and I can see them eventually ending up somewhere like Chrysler,Chevy, and Ford were a year ago.