The new M Performance automobiles range


^ it was more the annoyance that the rest of Europe will get the car as it was intended with AWD but we in Britain due to marketing more than anything will only get RWD. I hate getting something watered down.

Tut tut tut... your inference that it has anything to do with marketing is misplaced. It has everything to with the fact that due to the idiotic global situation, some countries drive on one side of the road whilst the rest drive on the other. This presents engineers of certain AWD models (like in the case of several Mercedes Benz 4-Matic models) with no financially viable way of packaging the AWD-related ancilliaries in both LHD and RHD models.
 
IF the UK was made a special case and the M550d was offered in RWD only, I would consider it quite an honour. However, there are reports that the the M550d will not be making it to the UK in either 4WD OR RWD form.



I agree that the economy will be good relative to the performance. My problem is with someone "PRAISING" specifically the 6.3 l/100km (45 mpg) fuel consumption figure when in reality nobody will ever see that figure.

A bit of a loose statement, as no one has driven these cars yet to report back on fuel consumptiion. You may be right, but you may also be wrong.
 
Tut tut tut... your inference that it has anything to do with marketing is misplaced. It has everything to with the fact that due to the idiotic global situation, some countries drive on one side of the road whilst the rest drive on the other. This presents engineers of certain AWD models (like in the case of several Mercedes Benz 4-Matic models) with no financially viable way of packaging the AWD-related ancilliaries in both LHD and RHD models.

Martin the decision is that they feel the returns won't cover the investment to adapt to RWD that to me has everything to do with marketing. :t-hands: My complaint is that because of this the M550 won't be the car it should be when it arrives here if it arrives at all.

A bit of a loose statement, as no one has driven these cars yet to report back on fuel consumptiion. You may be right, but you may also be wrong.

Betty isn't wrong here only that he is taking this official figures as gospel rather than a guide. Fact remains that for the performance on offer it's mileage will be exceptional.
 
Sorry braaf, but I'm with Betty on this one. Manufacturer's claims are engineered to such a degree that the slightest transgression with the right foot or exceeding of legal speed limits, will result in significantly diminished fuel efficiency. A combined cycle of 6.3 litres in the cut-and-thrust of Jozi mix-cycle driving in a tri-turbo six diesel with 280 kW? Close to impossible in my opinion. To use those horses you must feed them - even if they are of the thriftiest kind.
 
Martin the decision is that they feel the returns won't cover the investment to adapt to RWD that to me has everything to do with marketing. :t-hands: My complaint is that because of this the M550 won't be the car it should be when it arrives here if it arrives at all.



Betty isn't wrong here only that he is taking this official figures as gospel rather than a guide. Fact remains that for the performance on offer it's mileage will be exceptional.

Nor is he right. Fact is anyone can achieve the figures that manufacturers claim. It depnds on your driving style, In other words, drive like a granny :D. My argument is that he cannott simply make a statement like that and no one has actually reported back on the consumption. Now had he said something along the lines of "I find it hard to believe that anyone will achieve those kind of figures" then I would have agreed with him.
 
Sorry braaf, but I'm with Betty on this one. Manufacturer's claims are engineered to such a degree that the slightest transgression with the right foot or exceeding of legal speed limits, will result in significantly diminished fuel efficiency. A combined cycle of 6.3 litres in the cut-and-thrust of Jozi mix-cycle driving in a tri-turbo six diesel with 280 kW? Close to impossible in my opinion. To use those horses you must feed them - even if they are of the thriftiest kind.

Agreed Martin. It's how he said it that I take issue with. Or maybe I'm just being too technical. But I also agree with that kinda power on tap it will be hard to achieve those kinda figues.
 
Martin the decision is that they feel the returns won't cover the investment to adapt to RWD that to me has everything to do with marketing. :t-hands: My complaint is that because of this the M550 won't be the car it should be when it arrives here if it arrives at all.

Utter and complete rubbish. It's got everything to do with a business case.

There is a significantly diminished business case for AWD in specific models in RHD because the sales volumes arising from demand for such vehicles just isn't there. If you're not going to make money (because there's negative return on the investment spent on engineering a solution to cater for such a small contribution of sales) then there's no point in doing it.
 
My complaint is that because of this the M550 won't be the car it should be when it arrives here if it arrives at all.

You still got it all wrong. What it SHOULD have been, was a proper RWD Bimmer. What we get, however, is an AWD version. Which is not bad per se, but RWD would have been better.
And what the UK will get is nothing, just like the US.
 
A bit of a loose statement, as no one has driven these cars yet to report back on fuel consumptiion. You may be right, but you may also be wrong.

I have enough experience of many, many cars over the last few years to know the real life figures are nowhere near the claimed figures. I have tried in vain to achieve them but not a chance. And believe me. I do know how to drive, not just fast, but economically. ;)

I'm not just talking about BMW's. MB and Audi are the same.

Over the last ten years I've driven pretty much every model BMW offer (Audi and MB not so much), with pretty much every engine combination they offer. Not just for a few hours, but each one over several days and a few thousand km. I always make a point of checking the tyre pressures are correct etc. I keep a database of all the vehicles I've driven and their fuel consumption figures (yes, I am a bit autistic). What I have found is that at best you will be able to achieve their combined EU cycle figure. And that's driving at a steady speed aiming for the best consumption. In other words, what should be the "extra-urban" cycle.

I also know which manufacturers/cars on-board computers are the most accurate. BMW's consistently come within 1 or 2 mpg of the actual fuel consumption. The worst I've ever seen was on an S Class 350 CDI. On-board computer? 42mpg. Actual consumption (over 2,000km)? 33mpg.
 
Utter and complete rubbish. It's got everything to do with a business case.

There is a significantly diminished business case for AWD in specific models in RHD because the sales volumes arising from demand for such vehicles just isn't there. If you're not going to make money (because there's negative return on the investment spent on engineering a solution to cater for such a small contribution of sales) then there's no point in doing it.


I expected more from you here, marketing and business case (as you call it) are intertwined. Marketing determines how much something can sell for and the projected amounts at said price which directly effects whether the adaption is viable.

Arguing the finer details doesn't dampen the fact that we here won't get the proper M550 as BMW's M-Division intended which is no only sad but turns me off from what is probably the most exciting BMW in recent years in my opinion.
 
Deckhook, so dreadfully sorry that I've fallen short of your expectations once more.

I wish to ask you - speaking in plain english and specifics - what is the primary reason for Mercedes Benz not offering the GLK and other sedan-based 4-Matic models in the UK?
 
Marketing can't make a case if the cars don't sell to begin with. Just like marketing can't make a case when a car is not profitable to begin with (read: BMW supercar).
 
Marketing can't make a case if the cars don't sell to begin with. Just like marketing can't make a case when a car is not profitable to begin with (read: BMW supercar).

Let's look at this statement.

Marketing can't make a case if the cars don't sell to begin with.

Who decided on the price and it's placement in relation to the competition and further more who decided on the potential quantities needed in any given year....... the engineers? :D

It's the marketing department that looks at the competition, sees what is needed, evaluates how much can be charged which into decided the profit being made and guesstimates the potential numbers that might be sold. It's all black magic stuff but their input is very high in the overall decision process I can assure you.

martinbo said:
Deckhook, so dreadfully sorry that I've fallen short of your expectations once more.

I thought Martin you would have understood what I was referring to in the first place.

martinbo said:
I wish to ask you - speaking in plain english and specifics - what is the primary reason for Mercedes Benz not offering the GLK and other sedan-based 4-Matic models in the UK?

I would suspect the reason is very similar to that which BMW are about to do with the M550, they don't believe the sales warrant the outlay to bring these models here in RWD form. If that is the case then I have to disagree because the GLK will sell in far greater numbers than the ML ever could and Audi have shown time and again that the UK love awd.
 
^ True but other mags say it might come but without awd. Frankly if it's without xDrive then I'm not interested anyway.
 
Have I read properly, that some are disapointed the 550d will not be RWD?

Why the 550d will have no RWD but only AWD is a marketing stategic reason and not a technical reason. The 550d is not cheap, for this reason goodies like M package and AWD are standard. Giving more choice to a buyer usually increases the chance of a purchase, but in some case it may aswell sway away. In this case, M550d offers something no other car offers, an even greater compromise between sport and comfort with daily drivability. Who is going to buy an 550d? Certainly not someone that looks only for performance nor only for low consumption. What may stop someone from buying an M5 is the lack of AWD, especially in Germany, Austria, Swiss, north Italy and other northern countries. I see the M550d more as the top executive car, and AWD is quite important for such a car. However if BMW notices there is demand for a RWD M550d they will certainly offer it. Apparently there is no demand for an AWD 760i.

IMO the M550d is a more interesting alternative to an Audi S6 or Mercedes E 4-Matic, as it offers AWD but with sportivity with high perforamnce, exclusivity and even good consumption, even if can have the means, it does no wrong reducing you fuel budget on a daily commuter. I think most of the M550d clients will have a 911 or something of the kind in their garage.
 
I have enough experience of many, many cars over the last few years to know the real life figures are nowhere near the claimed figures. I have tried in vain to achieve them but not a chance. And believe me. I do know how to drive, not just fast, but economically. ;)

I'm not just talking about BMW's. MB and Audi are the same.

Over the last ten years I've driven pretty much every model BMW offer (Audi and MB not so much), with pretty much every engine combination they offer. Not just for a few hours, but each one over several days and a few thousand km. I always make a point of checking the tyre pressures are correct etc. I keep a database of all the vehicles I've driven and their fuel consumption figures (yes, I am a bit autistic). What I have found is that at best you will be able to achieve their combined EU cycle figure. And that's driving at a steady speed aiming for the best consumption. In other words, what should be the "extra-urban" cycle.

I also know which manufacturers/cars on-board computers are the most accurate. BMW's consistently come within 1 or 2 mpg of the actual fuel consumption. The worst I've ever seen was on an S Class 350 CDI. On-board computer? 42mpg. Actual consumption (over 2,000km)? 33mpg.

Spot-on Betty, with my foot planted travelling from my hometown Bethlehem to Bloemfontein (and a 'slip stream' - SLK 55AMG in front) doing higway speeds raging from 180kph-230kph, the X6 M's trip computer calculated an average consumption 5.6 KM/L. The actual figure calculated from my phone @ the pumps came to an average of 4.6 KM/L.
 
Let's look at this statement.

Marketing can't make a case if the cars don't sell to begin with.

Who decided on the price and it's placement in relation to the competition and further more who decided on the potential quantities needed in any given year....... the engineers? :D
It's the marketing department that looks at the competition, sees what is needed, evaluates how much can be charged which into decided the profit being made and guesstimates the potential numbers that might be sold.
As a matter of fact, yes, the engineers can have a huge say in how much it will ultimately cost. When you say marketing and business case are intertwined, you are correct. But I don't think you are correct in saying that marketing alone determines whether the business case can be made. It involves numbers crunching by marketing, engineers (who, after all, are ultimately the ones responsible for determining the level of R&D needed to even make the RHD case from which calculations of cost/benefit can be derived), manufacturing (what is needed on the plant floor to allow the change, and will it adversely affect capacity elsewhere?) and no doubt input from finance (bean counters) who oversee the budgets of each of these departments themselves.
We would have know a little more about the F10 platform and what would be needed to make the business case for an AWD version with RHD. Perhaps, as like Mercedes with the GLK, they felt that AWD and RHD was not feasible at the time of its release and they didn't want to foot the bill for R&D until later.

As for how Audi can do so well with AWD in the UK, well, their identity has been forged for decades with a close association to AWD. Those rally championships weren't just a result of marketing; it was the result of good engineering. Without the latter, you can't have the former (as Cadillac found to their dismay after their failed Le Mans program). Meanwhile, BMW has traditionally been based around RWD. This is certainly changing now, but at this point, it's a weaker part of their portfolio than it is for Audi. And according to Audi's Wolfgang Egger, whether a product fits a company's portfolio can be the #1 priority over considerations of cost, engineering, volume, etc.
The problem with relying solely on marketing is that it gives only a snapshot in time. No doubt Porsche and Mercedes did considerable marketing drives to potential customers with the CGT and SLR, but as they found out, interest was strong initially, then waned and in the final years of production, sales slowed to a crawl. Both fell short of their intended projections. Same thing with the Z8: it sold very strongly at first, but sales trickled in the final years. Throughout this, the cost of engineering pretty much remains the same and thanks to the changing nature of the public, a company can find itself with a hefty cost in engineering but no more customers. It would be nice if marketing can accurately gauge interest, ensure to collect deposits on all cars beforehand and miraculously work with manufacturing to profitably build all cars within a short period of time, but sadly it doesn't work that way for this end of the market.
 

BMW

Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, abbreviated as BMW is a German multinational manufacturer of luxury vehicles and motorcycles headquartered in Munich, Bavaria, Germany. The company was founded in 1916 as a manufacturer of aircraft engines, which it produced from 1917 to 1918 and again from 1933 to 1945.
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)

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