C-Class (W205) [Spyshots] 2015 Mercedes-Benz C-Class (W205) Spy Photos

[JLBM]

Marcus, do you really feel that a 328i doesn't drive well? If so, please impart an explanation of your opinion because I have not read a single review from a credible source that criticises the way the F30 drives.

Yes, the W205 looks to be the 3er's best competitor ever with svelte styling and clearly more special interior. But there's one area in which every 3er out does the W205 - the powertrain department. The ZF8 gearbox and entire engine range in the BMW is superior to the older technology in the W205. People are making out like this car is the coming of the messiah.

The W205 looks to be bringing new-found levels of refinement to the class but I sincerely doubt anything significantly more.

Lets wait and see. From a petrol POV this time round it might be different, if the rumoured 4.0l AMG and C400 (turbo v6) materialise. BMW diesels are still way ahead.

 

[Merc1]

Marcus, do you really feel that a 328i doesn't drive well? If so, please impart an explanation of your opinion because I have not read a single review from a credible source that criticises the way the F30 drives.

Yes, the W205 looks to be the 3er's best competitor ever with svelte styling and clearly more special interior. But there's one area in which every 3er out does the W205 - the powertrain department. The ZF8 gearbox and entire engine range in the BMW is superior to the older technology in the W205. People are making out like this car is the coming of the messiah.

The W205 looks to be bringing new-found levels of refinement to the class but I sincerely doubt anything significantly more.

It drives good as a car of course, but for a BMW it is just marginal IMO. Maybe it was the base loaners that I've had, I dunno, but it was nothing special. I couldn't wait to get out it. Didn't drive as good as previous 3-Series models IMO. I don't think it is fair to call the powertrain of the W205 older yet since we don't have all the models on deck yet. If Mercedes is really on their shite, the C350 or C400 or whatever they call it will have the new 3.0L turbo V6 and the new 9G transmission. That surely won't be dated, and that would be the car I would want to drive. How can something bring new found levels of refinement, but those levels not be significant? Sounds like a contradiction to me Martin.

M

 

[martinbo]

I'm told that the 4.0l twin-turbo V8 engine for the new C AMG is a dead cert. Given that AMG have a reputation for building masterful engines it's simple to anticipate that it's going to be a great engine. Then again, it has to be because it's about to come up against another Engine of the Year category winner in the new S55 so at the very best it's a draw there. In reality I believe that, once again, the world's most prolific engine manufacturer has produced a sensationally engineered work of mechanical art that will win the Performance Engine of the Year laurels.

The new turbo'd V6 in the C400 is just that: a V6. This forum seems to have disregarded or forgotten why and how inline sixes are superior in every way to V6s. V6s are coarser and more recalcitrant to rev up than their inherently smoother, more refined, more efficient, more responsive inline counterparts.

As for the cooking engines for joe public, BMW's diesels are superior all round and the 4 cylinder range of twin-scroll turbo'd petrol engines are better than Merc's competitor offerings.

 

[martinbo]

It drives good as a car of course, but for a BMW it is just marginal IMO. Maybe it was the base loaners that I've had, I dunno, but it was nothing special. I couldn't wait to get out it. Didn't drive as good as previous 3-Series models IMO.

I think it drives a good deal better. It's suspension is much less lead-footed than the E90 and has superior high-frequency absorption characteristics; short, sharp ridges in the road surface are far better dealt with. This hasn't come at the expense of sportiness either, BMW's engineers have done an impressive job of endowing the car with good vertical suspension travel and rebound comfort and yet in cornering the car has remarkable anti-roll characteristics. And this is just on the boggo standard springs and passive dampers.

The steering is what it is: nicely weighted, accurate but ultimately about as communicative as a fake sign-language interpreter during an Obama address. Then again I've only ever met a handful of people who knew what to do with good steering feedback and the E90's steering was no better.

The ZF 8 Speed auto is nothing short of sensationally good, it's smooth, predictive and very, very fast for a slusher.

Anyhow that's my assessment of the F30. I guess I must have different standards to other people. Then again, I dont know of anyone else who's taken their diesel auto 3er sideways on a skidpad.

I don't think it is fair to call the powertrain of the W205 older yet since we don't have all the models on deck yet. If Mercedes is really on their shite, the C350 or C400 or whatever they call it will have the new 3.0L turbo V6 and the new 9G transmission. That surely won't be dated, and that would be the car I would want to drive.

9G-Tronic ostensibly will be phased in. The older, proven 7G gearbox is the likely launch transmission. See my comments on V6s. I don't like them at all and I have every scientific reason not to.

How can something bring new found levels of refinement, but those levels not be significant? Sounds like a contradiction to me Martin.

Sounds like you didn't read my statement right. I'm saying the beyond seemingly superior refinement (in certain but not all areas) expected in the W205, I do not see that it will bring anything beyond this to the segment of significance. Not straight line performance, not dynamics, not fuel efficiency...

 

[Serpens]

Marcus, do you really feel that a 328i doesn't drive well? If so, please impart an explanation of your opinion because I have not read a single review from a credible source that criticises the way the F30 drives.

Yes, the W205 looks to be the 3er's best competitor ever with svelte styling and clearly more special interior. But there's one area in which every 3er out does the W205 - the powertrain department. The ZF8 gearbox and entire engine range in the BMW is superior to the older technology in the W205. People are making out like this car is the coming of the messiah.

The W205 looks to be bringing new-found levels of refinement to the class but I sincerely doubt anything significantly more.

You've really never seen a review that criticizes the F30's driving characteristics? Magazines have complained about its driving characteristics even when it has won comparison tests.

Car and Driver comparison test:
"That the electric power steering doesn’t offer much feedback or feel is a bad thing, though. At least it is accurate, allowing you to place the car precisely in a corner without lost motion. Our beef is that the primary communication between driver and road—the steering—is now pleading the Fifth. Please, BMW, remedy this fault."

Car and Driver comparison test #2 against ATS:
"Our grave concern here is that, with each new car it introduces, BMW seems to wrap more padding around the sensations and feel that make them great—while its competitors only zero in more tightly on those same attributes. (We’re convinced that the E90 would handily win a comparison test against the F30.)"

Motor Trend comparison against ATS:
"Traditionally, one of the 3 Series' highlights has been its sharp, balanced handling and less compromised attitude. Ironically, it's here that the BMW is let down."

I still think the 3-series is the benchmark and best all-'rounder for now. We'll see about the new C-class.

 

[martinbo]

Serpens, many other reviews from the other side of the pond have completely contradicted American publications abject lamentation of the 3er's handling characteristics. I do too.

Maybe the US gets a different suspension setup to the rest of the world.

 

[941benz]

I have 328i F30 in my house hold and all I can say is nothing to be proud of. The only good thing about this car is the way it delivers is power, very linear and lag free. But as soon as you stop pushing all fun is over, engine sounds like a diesels did 15 years ago. It makes me think that BMW put Start-Stop on this car so people don't have to listen to rattling engine sound. Every time before driving you have to make a decision- You want to hear rattling engine? Or you want to feel shattering restarts from Start Stop ?.... I wish it was third option.

 

[Merc1]

I think it drives a good deal better. It's suspension is much less lead-footed than the E90 and has superior high-frequency absorption characteristics; short, sharp ridges in the road surface are far better dealt with. This hasn't come at the expense of sportiness either, BMW's engineers have done an impressive job of endowing the car with good vertical suspension travel and rebound comfort and yet in cornering the car has remarkable anti-roll characteristics. And this is just on the boggo standard springs and passive dampers.

The steering is what it is: nicely weighted, accurate but ultimately about as communicative as a fake sign-language interpreter during an Obama address. Then again I've only ever met a handful of people who knew what to do with good steering feedback and the E90's steering was no better.

The ZF 8 Speed auto is nothing short of sensationally good, it's smooth, predictive and very, very fast for a slusher.

Anyhow that's my assessment of the F30. I guess I must have different standards to other people. Then again, I dont know of anyone else who's taken their diesel auto 3er sideways on a skidpad.



9G-Tronic ostensibly will be phased in. The older, proven 7G gearbox is the likely launch transmission. See my comments on V6s. I don't like them at all and I have every scientific reason not to.



Sounds like you didn't read my statement right. I'm saying the beyond seemingly superior refinement (in certain but not all areas) expected in the W205, I do not see that it will bring anything beyond this to the segment of significance. Not straight line performance, not dynamics, not fuel efficiency...

Wasn't my experience. The ones I've driven were slow, with cheap interiors...clearly nothing special.

9G will or won't be present at launch, depending on the model, we don' know this yet.

Engine wise yeah BMW is superior, but in other areas the C appears to have the BMW beat and for me a great drive is important, but not at the expense of a nice interior. The new 3 is lacking in that area, and the 2 I have driven were a non event for me.

You don't know what the car will bring yet, it isn't out yet. All speculation. Unlike you to join the hater wagon before a car is even launched.

BMW isn't itself anymore and it is very clear they are vulnerable on the dynamic front, having being beat by Audi, Cadillac and Lexus in various tests of the 3 and the 5. BMW is lacking with the 3 IMO. I6 and 8ZHP are great, 320i I drove sucked as did the 328i. This whole thing started when someone tried to suggest that a base 3 is a nicer car than the base C, a car we haven't even seen yet.


M

 

[W201]

...I have driven were a non event for me.

M

After 6 Series, I doubt many cars from lower segments will be an event for you...

 

[martinbo]

Who says I'm on the hater wagon? You'll see a couple of pages earlier that I have immense appreciation for the W205 and how it will surely usurp the 3er from a sales point of view in the class. I have a great network of informed industry professionals but I never make a song and dance about it. We've all assessed that the W205 has tons of appeal where it matters and that it will a) be sensational and b) the top seller in the class.

There's not much mystery surrounding what powertrain configurations will be available at launch so it's hardly speculation. Autocar have already ridden shotgun in the 2.1 litre diesel which, has the same outputs as before and is still slower than the equivalent 320d. Yes, of course, let's wait for the definitive head to head verdicts but, jeez, when was educated surmising a crime?

But what I really can't stand is when people make sweeping statements about how the 3er drives like shite. What a crock.

 

[Merc1]

Who says I'm on the hater wagon? You'll see a couple of pages earlier that I have immense appreciation for the W205 and how it will surely usurp the 3er from a sales point of view in the class. I have a great network of informed industry professionals but I never make a song and dance about it. We've all assessed that the W205 has tons of appeal where it matters and that it will a) be sensational and b) the top seller in the class.

There's not much mystery surrounding what powertrain configurations will be available at launch so it's hardly speculation. Autocar have already ridden shotgun in the 2.1 litre diesel which, has the same outputs as before and is still slower than the equivalent 320d. Yes, of course, let's wait for the definitive head to head verdicts but, jeez, when was educated surmising a crime?

But what I really can't stand is when people make sweeping statements about how the 3er drives like shite. What a crock.

Sorry Martin, the car doesn't do it for me compared to previous 3-Series models, especially the 320i. For a BMW it is sub par in my experience. No one has driven the C400 yet that I know of or experienced the 9G in the C so yes that is speculation as to how that combination will perform vs the competition and in general.

M

 

[Merc1]

After 6 Series, I doubt many cars from lower segments will be an event for you...

I though that too, but that isn't so always. You have to get used to lesser cars, but they shouldn't feel like they're from different brand when they are of the same brand.

M

 

[SKY]

Expecting the new C to drive better than the F30 is a bit optimistic IMO. I haven´t driven it, but I know a few friends who have driven it and they all say it drives so good. I expect the W205 to be better than the W204, but if it beats the bimmer I would be very surprised.

 

[Merc1]

When people say drives better it could mean a number of things. Generally better just means sportier or who is the sportiest. I don't expect the Mercedes to be better in that regard. I expect it to be more luxurious, more comfortable yet sportier than the current car, if such a combination is possible. To me both a BMW and Mercedes drive great, because they don't drive the same. It varies by model though. S-Class isn't sportier, but it is more of a pleasure to drive than a 7-Series IMO. Most people think sportier = best driving, that isn't always so IMO. I look for substance, feeling that sort of thing, not just sheer grip and cornering speed....a combination of it all.

M

 

[LaArtist]

Did i just scroll through 1.5 pages of 3series talk?

 

[Wunderkind]

I read some road tests of the 3.0L twin turbo E400 and reports are that the engine is slightly coarser than the N/A 3.50L engine. The power delivery is refined with no sporting overtures at all. I was actually hoping the "Sport" button would dial up the engine and gearbox responses, but no! Thats why I didn't wait for the E400.

 

[JLBM]

I read some road tests of the 3.0L twin turbo E400 and reports are that the engine is slightly coarser than the N/A 3.50L engine. The power delivery is refined with no sporting overtures at all. I was actually hoping the "Sport" button would dial up the engine and gearbox responses, but no! Thats why I didn't wait for the E400.

I can believe that. A CLK 350 floored past me this week and sounded so good.. Nothing beats NA for that pure, good old 6 cyl sound.

 

[Wolfgang]

Guess MBUSA will offer the C250 as main engine. Here are some specs compared, using the tool available on http://www.mbusa.com

 

[vios1]

Official!!!! more photo...

 

[vios1]