S-Class (W223) [Spy Shots] Mercedes-Benz S-Class (W223) Spy Shots and Info

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I believe that the 4 door coupe trend will soon fade away. The SWB S class is a typical European version, that can not be substituted. These companies are truly global these days, but neglecting their home market will disconnect them with their roots and with the emerging protectionism that would be a very risky move.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

The S is a car that's best enjoyed in the back seat. A four door coupe with a cramped rear seat isn't viable when the S-Coupe exist. The AMG GT4D fills the role of a spirited alternative to the S sedan.

For the back seat enjoyment we’ve got the LWB V222 and X222.
There are S drivers who love the refined drive and comfortable suspension of the S/SWB and many of them don’t need the extra room in the back.
An AMG GT4 door will never be able to offer that kind of comfort. Besides, if you’re used to the relative lowkey S sedan, you don’t want to drive in a relative shouty AMG...
For me it’s absolutely clear the S will lose a lot of it’s attractiveness for those self driving owners, if the SWB is axed.

 

[SKY]

For the back seat enjoyment we’ve got the LWB V222 and X222.
There are S drivers who love the refined drive and comfortable suspension of the S/SWB and many of them don’t need the extra room in the back.
An AMG GT4 door will never be able to offer that kind of comfort. Besides, if you’re used to the relative lowkey S sedan, you don’t wan...

The SWB S-Class getting scrapped would make little sense IMO. I know S-Class owners who want to drive a huge car mainly due to comfort reasons and don't want the back seat of their cars to look like a saloon (TVs included). Surely the LWB gets a lot of sales from countries in which the S-Class is used to drive people around, but the SWB S-Class can hardly be compared to the E-Class.

Same applies to the rest of the segment IMO.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

I believe that the 4 door coupe trend will soon fade away.

An interesting prediction, although I personally anticipate quite the opposite. My take is that save in the über-luxury segment consisting of LWB MB S-Class and LWB BMW 7 series cars, as well as the RR Ghost, Phantom, Bentley Flying Spur & Mulsanne, the traditional 3-box sedan will soon (say by 10 years down the road) disappear. Increased space efficiency brought via BEV platforms and their "footwells" as well as new seat-mounting technology will usher far more rakish, "coupe-like" configurations with lower centers of gravity in most, if not all, traditional "sedan segments".

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

An interesting prediction, although I personally anticipate quite the opposite. My take is that save in the über-luxury segment consisting of LWB MB S-Class and LWB BMW 7 series cars, as well as the RR Ghost, Phantom, Bentley Flying Spur & Mulsanne, the traditional 3-box sedan will soon (say by 10 years down the road) disappear. Increased space efficienc...

For the next 10 years BMW and MB are predicting that BEV and PHEV cars will form about a quarter of their annual sales, so the alternative drivetrains will not influence that much the overall shape of the cars in the very near future.
For me the 4 door coupe is like wearing a corset- you do look better indeed, but there is a price to be paid for this.

 

[hannaz]

New Mercedes S-Class To Be Offered Only With Long Wheelbase?

The upcoming W223 might exclusively come in long wheelbase, thanks to the E-Class.

Mercedes-Benz has already confirmed the arrival of the new S-Class, which is good news, considering how the brand's SUVs are slowly becoming the money makers for the German marque. After all, it is the S-Class, the ultimate Mercedes sedan.

We have yet to get full details about the full-sized sedan, but there's one bit of information that has entered the rumor mill: the upcoming Mercedes S-Class sedan will only come with a long wheelbase.

According to Autocar UK, the seventh-generation Merc sedan won't come in two different wheelbase lengths anymore. Known internally as the W223, it has been rumored to come in long-wheelbase version only and you can blame that on the E-Class. Since the E-Class has grown to a length of 4,920 millimeters (194 inches), offering a short-wheelbase S-Class would step into its bounds, thus, the decision of keeping the next-generation S-Class in long wheelbase at 5,280mm (208 in).

Although, nothing is confirmed at this point yet, so we can all take this rumor with a grain of salt. At least for now. Besides, Mercedes have a full year to change its mind. A lot of things could happen within this timeline.

At this point, based on the recent spy shots, we can predict that the upcoming S-Class could come with level 3 autonomous driving capability, as also confirmed by Daimler's head of R&D. Mercedes would probably use the latest of its MBUX infotainment system, which would be more advanced than what the next-generation CLA will have in its CES debut.

Lastly, the new Mercedes S-Class might have a full-electric version with an EQ S badge. If and when will it debut is something we have to watch out for.

New Mercedes S-Class To Be Offered Only With Long Wheelbase?

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Since the E-Class has grown to a length of 4,920 millimeters (194 inches), offering a short-wheelbase S-Class would step into its bounds, thus, the decision of keeping the next-generation S-Class in long wheelbase at 5,280mm (208 in).

As if size/interior space is the only factor that matters...?! Sometimes those car journalists aren't the brightest people around.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

As if size/interior space is the only factor that matters...?! Sometimes those car journalists aren't the brightest people around.

Fully agree. They do not have an idea of the real plans of Mercedes, but they state the future lack of a SWB version as a fact:

Besides,Mercedes have a full year to change its mind.

 

[Rolf]

Maybe they thinking that the LWB E-class will fill in the role of the SWB S-class as they almost are the same length/wheelbase?

 

[Monster]

Maybe they thinking that the LWB E-class will fill in the role of the SWB S-class as they almost are the same length/wheelbase?

Having sat inside the LWB E-class, I can tell you even though the rear leg room space is similar, the level of comfort, luxury, quality and sense of occasion is still a noticeable level below the S class.

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

There was actually a SWB W220 S350 for the 2006 model year in the U.S.

M

Yeah, but it was a colossal failure - sales were in the hundreds. Real bad timing by MBUSA as W220 sales were dead at that point and they all came about as loaded as mid-spec E320 of that era.

The S450 is selling very well right now as lease rates are quite attractive compared to the S560.

I'm sure, but that wasn't the point, just that the W140 S320 was not the last SWB S-Class sold in the U.S.

M

I guess that's why I forgot about it since it was an afterthought to boost sales of a waning product.

I can see there's much hesitation/consternation regarding there being no SWB for the upcoming S. I'd wait and see if the upcoming E shores up any of its short-comings to help commandeer some of the SWB S sales. Also if some of the more niche vehicles can fill in the role for some customers. I am sure that packaging considerations for all the new tech and cost played a big role in discontinuing a SWB S.

 

[Busty]

I don't know when exactly but it must have been more than two years ago, when I wrote about a (pretty solid) rumor that the S coupe in its present form would be axed. Let's just say quite some forum members wanted to have me institutionalized ... Times have changed and there have been numerous other sources suggesting the same scenario.
Back then, I also mentioned the possibility of 4-door-coupe and a potential revival of the SEC nameplate. It is more or less exactly the argumentation @Mick Briesgau brought up above that nurtured this project. Also, there had been intel from some of the consultancy giants (maybe McKinsey?) that BMW might indeed produce a VFL-shaped vehicle ...

 

[SKY]

I don't know when exactly but it must have been more than two years ago, when I wrote about a (pretty solid) rumor that the S coupe in its present form would be axed. Let's just say quite some forum members wanted to have me institutionalized ... Times have changed and there have been numerous other sources suggesting the same scenario.
Back then, I...

My money is on MB only having the S-Class, SL and EQS in this "segment".

Why a VFL vehicle though? Isn't it redundant?

 

[M.N.D]

Let's just say quite some forum members wanted to have me institutionalized

Anyway, back on topic.

@Busty do you mean that Mercedes is intending to replace the S coupe with a 4 door coupe version? if true, how will the SEC nameplate fit within the company's profile?

 

[Serpens]

I don't know when exactly but it must have been more than two years ago, when I wrote about a (pretty solid) rumor that the S coupe in its present form would be axed. Let's just say quite some forum members wanted to have me institutionalized ... Times have changed and there have been numerous other sources suggesting the same scenario.
Back then, I...

I remember that and you weren’t the only person I heard that from at the time either.

 

[Busty]

My money is on MB only having the S-Class, SL and EQS in this "segment".

Why a VFL vehicle though? Isn't it redundant?

I'm not sure I understand your question ? Anyway, what I meant to say was that they thought the VFL could become real (as a luxury 4 door coupe positioned somewhere between 7 series and Ghost) so it made further sense for them to develop a comparable S class derivate.

One of my all-time favorites . This fellow, however, has just left the institution and is about to hang himself. Have been close but never at that point in here

Anyway, back on topic.

@Busty do you mean that Mercedes is intending to replace the S coupe with a 4 door coupe version? if true, how will the SEC nameplate fit within the company's profile?

First question: Yes, that is what I heard. Second part: The SEC label was being discussed. However, I don't know what the decision was and I don't know if it fits. Last thing I heard about nomenclature logic in general was: First letter(s) is for the family (C = business compact, E = business superior, S = luxury, GL = Gelaende light, EQ = electric ......), the last describe/s the segment within the family (GLC = compact, GLE = business, GLS = luxury). This nomenclature implies that, for instance, real luxury 'begins' with an S and that a GLS is positioned as a luxurious SUV but still below the S class and that the EQS is a luxurious BEV but, again, still positioned below the S class in terms of luxury. Made sense to me somehow.
Classic labels, such as SL or even a resurrected SEC, may stand 'for themselves'.

 

[M.N.D]

One of my all-time favorites . This fellow, however, has just left the institution and is about to hang himself. Have been close but never at that point in here

It is one of my all time favorites as well, and I really like its story as it has a deep meaning the thing is, the word you mentioned just reminded me of the conversation his folks had in the yard of the prison after Brooks left, so I guess I was supposed to put a photo of that scene instead. I'm glad you're not in the same situation as Brooks because it's gonna be a loss to everyone. Stay safe and happy

First question: Yes, that is what I heard. Second part: The SEC label was being discussed. However, I don't know what the decision was and I don't know if it fits. Last thing I heard about nomenclature logic in general was: First letter(s) is for the family (C = business compact, E = business superior, S = luxury,GL = Gelaende light,EQ = electric ......), the last describe/s the segment within the family (GLC = compact,GLE = business,GLS = luxury). This nomenclature implies that, for instance, real luxury 'begins' with an S and that a GLS is positioned as a luxurious SUV but still below the S class and that the EQS is a luxurious BEV but, again, still positioned below the S class in terms of luxury. Made sense to me somehow.

So this means that the S Class will still stay as the flagship of the whole Mercedes portfolio and above the GLS even though the latter is going to be the flagship of the SUV range, right? This I kind of understand given the image and the history of the S Class, if my understanding is right.

Classic labels, such as SL or even a resurrected SEC, may stand 'for themselves'.

I'm getting the feeling that if the SEC will be resurrected it'll be above the S Class, which to me contradicts my understanding of the S Class position I said above if it's going to be a four door, even a sporty one at that.

I think that these models should stay a low volume production to maintain a level of exclusivity, but in today's market, every company needs to shift a certain number to stay profitable.

Sometimes it's hard to understand the market perception!

 

[hannaz]

I truly wish that Merc's flagship should be retained as S-Class as sedan as a form still have more elegance and class. Look at Phantom & Mulssane over Cullinan & Bentayga, their sedan is still the flagships. Let them get more revenue & profit from SUVs so that company can live well. How ever if a new form like the 3 box SUV as seen in Maybach UL concept comes out & if it could look more elegant then there could be a space to re think about the flagship

 

[Mick Briesgau]

I'm inclined to agree with you @hannaz
For me a SUV/SAC or whatever, could never be a flagship if the brand has a proper sedan in it's portfolio. A sedan oozes much more finesse and elegance than a SUV ever could. But maybe we're a minority. Could very well be, that the more youthful (under 30 years) are so used to and grown up with SUV, that for them a SUV is the pinnacle and a sedan something of yesterday.
It'd be nice if the younger members would chime in and give their opinion on this matter?

 

[Deleted member 1071]

I'm inclined to agree with you @hannaz
For me a SUV/SAC or whatever, could never be a flagship if the brand has a proper sedan in it's portfolio. A sedan oozes much more finesse and elegance than a SUV ever could. But maybe we're a minority. Could very well be, that the more youthful (under 30 years) are so used to and grown up w...

I've often expressed my enthusiasm with regard to sleek, svelte, athletic sedans (aka "sedoupes) and I can be quite passionate about them. And while I can certainly appreciate the existence of SUVs', it is a genre of automobile that I am simply unable to become genuinely passionate about.