Sportauto: BMW M5 vs Audi S6
- Thread starter Zafiro
- Start date
martinbo said:Ah gee, you're pulling the p!ss now, Gene.
Capybara, now thats a animal I've never heard of. Looks like a wombat (not that we have them here in New Zealand).
OT:
Yeah, I once watched one crossing a river in the Amazon on National Geographic get taken out by a school of Pirahna. Impressive stuff. Useless fact: the Capybara is the world's largest rodent.
Found that out after search Wikipedia. Another useless fact about rodents:
All pet hamsters are descended from a single female wild golden hamster found with a litter of 12 young in Syria in 1930.
Who needs to learn about German cars when we there is so much to learn about rodents.
Carpybara - 0 to 5km/hr in 5 minutes.
Hamster - 0 to 5km/hr in 4 minutes.
My Rodent is better than yours.
yaubrandon
Precision Tuner
to all M5 enthusiasts and especially Gene-
if you think BMW is better than Audi, why don't you accept i say Audi is better than BMW?
i can provide clues saying that Audi is better than BMW, might be.
Gene said he drove some Audis and BMWs before, and say BMW's handling is better than Audi's. but specifically, or clearly, is Audi so boring that you'd die as if you've driven a bus? Audi's handling might not be as good as BMW, but it still provides quite nice handling (don't argue first...).
as a performance car, M5 has a higher achievement than S6. but how about if as a executive sedan? i'd suggest S6 is better in this way. even a conventional A6, i think it at least has more interior space than a 5 series (engine is in the front of front axis).
'if you think performance is everything, please go for a 911/Elise' isn't rude or something, it's just natural. performance cars aren't build for extreme performance (corners particularly, something you like), but a balance between luxurity/comfort and performance. if you're really enthusiasted by BMW, Z4 M and M3 (CSL) are waiting for you, and you might forget M5 aftrwards. i must admit that M5 has a very high quality for being able to achieve such brilliant dynamics compared to its space, but a executive sedan doesn't need that much handling. acceptably agility and comfort is enough, and, power on high class models.
if you think BMW is better than Audi, why don't you accept i say Audi is better than BMW?
i can provide clues saying that Audi is better than BMW, might be.
Gene said he drove some Audis and BMWs before, and say BMW's handling is better than Audi's. but specifically, or clearly, is Audi so boring that you'd die as if you've driven a bus? Audi's handling might not be as good as BMW, but it still provides quite nice handling (don't argue first...).
as a performance car, M5 has a higher achievement than S6. but how about if as a executive sedan? i'd suggest S6 is better in this way. even a conventional A6, i think it at least has more interior space than a 5 series (engine is in the front of front axis).
'if you think performance is everything, please go for a 911/Elise' isn't rude or something, it's just natural. performance cars aren't build for extreme performance (corners particularly, something you like), but a balance between luxurity/comfort and performance. if you're really enthusiasted by BMW, Z4 M and M3 (CSL) are waiting for you, and you might forget M5 aftrwards. i must admit that M5 has a very high quality for being able to achieve such brilliant dynamics compared to its space, but a executive sedan doesn't need that much handling. acceptably agility and comfort is enough, and, power on high class models.
yaubrandon
Precision Tuner
TycoonGTR said:This:
is that you?
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
yaubrandon said:
of course it need, thats why M5 is such popular car and thats why people buy them. Why is Audi building a RS6 if the M5 is such a hopeless car. Rs6 and M5 are the same kind of cars that turn to the same people.
You arent going to tell others what the M5 need or not need. M5 is excalty what the owners want it to be thats why they buy and love them.
Snake Vargas
Oversteer Expert
Wow, what a thread. I might as well stick my foot in it, even though I've only read the last 3 pages. I get the idea the previous stuff was much the same. I had a good laugh at the Capybara though. Hilarious.
I suppose that's meant to be a joke?
Nobody said that Audis in general don't have reasonable handling in and of themselves. Nobody died of boredom, as far as I know. But get this: no magazine review I have ever read has rated Audi's handling better than the BMW equivalent. Comfort, ride, possibly, but handling, no.
Interior space? Maybe. But we're talking about performance here. Maybe this will provide clues as to why the M5 has better performance. You said it yourself - the engine in front of the front axle, whilst making for the possibility of better interior space, is largely detrimental to handling. The extra weight at the forward extreme of the car means that yaw inertia is that much greater, even if you can accept that a 50/50 fore/aft weight balance isn't the last word in handling.
The other clue - S6. This isn't RS6. Even Audi aren't kidding themselves, and I hope you aren't kidding yourself either. If and when an RS6 materialises, then we can talk. In the meantime, accept that the S6 isn't going after quite the same sort of buyer as the M5 is. It's not intrinsically worse, it's just different, and, undeniably slower on a race track, whatever that's worth to the buyer.
I don't want to make fun of people's English, but that's "luxury", not "luxurity". Again, we're not talking about the best compromise. We're saying that the M5 is a better performer around a track than the S6.
Plus, they are largeish sedans, but don't start with the "buy an Elise instead" thing. Some people want to have the best of both worlds. In the end, sure, many people might not take such a car on track. That's not the argument. Please, please just have the courage to admit that!
Don't be someone whose identity and whole sense of self esteem is founded upon the notion that Audi is better than BMW! They're only cars, after all.
yaubrandon said:
I suppose that's meant to be a joke?
yaubrandon said:
Nobody said that Audis in general don't have reasonable handling in and of themselves. Nobody died of boredom, as far as I know. But get this: no magazine review I have ever read has rated Audi's handling better than the BMW equivalent. Comfort, ride, possibly, but handling, no.
Interior space? Maybe. But we're talking about performance here. Maybe this will provide clues as to why the M5 has better performance. You said it yourself - the engine in front of the front axle, whilst making for the possibility of better interior space, is largely detrimental to handling. The extra weight at the forward extreme of the car means that yaw inertia is that much greater, even if you can accept that a 50/50 fore/aft weight balance isn't the last word in handling.
The other clue - S6. This isn't RS6. Even Audi aren't kidding themselves, and I hope you aren't kidding yourself either. If and when an RS6 materialises, then we can talk. In the meantime, accept that the S6 isn't going after quite the same sort of buyer as the M5 is. It's not intrinsically worse, it's just different, and, undeniably slower on a race track, whatever that's worth to the buyer.
yaubrandon said:
I don't want to make fun of people's English, but that's "luxury", not "luxurity". Again, we're not talking about the best compromise. We're saying that the M5 is a better performer around a track than the S6.
Plus, they are largeish sedans, but don't start with the "buy an Elise instead" thing. Some people want to have the best of both worlds. In the end, sure, many people might not take such a car on track. That's not the argument. Please, please just have the courage to admit that!
Don't be someone whose identity and whole sense of self esteem is founded upon the notion that Audi is better than BMW! They're only cars, after all.
Here we go again.yaubrandon said:
BMW's M5 is better than the S6 as a performance sedan. In general BMW is the better manufacturer at performance vehicles, but I would never say BMW is better than Audi. Those are the words of a fanboy.
Nobody said that Audi's are boring to drive, and nobody said Audi's are bad handlers. We are here saying the in the handling/drivevability department, most M models beat out their Audi equivalents. In fact most Audi's are better handling vehicles than several manufacturers. Besides who said that buses are bad handlers? I reserve judgement until I've actually driven one.yaubrandon said:
The magazine article focuses largely on performance (hence the name sport auto). I'm sure the S6 would win a magazine article by comfort auto. Now you've decided you want to focus on executive sedans all of a sudden, I can tell you the S6 would most probably a better comfort cruiser than an M5. Not so say that the M5 isn't comfortable, just that the M5 compromises the comfort the S6 has, for performance. Are you happy now? I said the S6 is better than the M5 at something.yaubrandon said:
This is where your argument breaks down again, and you become Mr Fanboy again.yaubrandon said:
As I've explained many time before, and assuming I was going out to spend my hard earned money on a car, I need the fun factor, but I also need to be practical. These M5 provides these values in the right proportions/compromises to my liking. In fact many people call the M5 the "thinkings man ferrari". The S6 simply doesn't apply the same values in the proportions that I like. Lets summarise that for you, don't tell me what I should get and what I shouldn't. I know what I like. You don't.
[/QUOTE=yaubrandon]but a executive sedan doesn't need that much handling. acceptably agility and comfort is enough, and, power on high class models.[/QUOTE]
What do you know what is acceptable level? There is no set "acceptable" level that defines a executive sedan/performance sedan. So please don't say that M5 doesn't provide acceptable levels. The fact that I've been in an M5 and other German/Japanese/European/French cars, means I've been able to compare the cars, and the M5 is more than acceptable that those areas.
This has to be the comment of the year. Although I'll be mature, and hope you meant performance sedans.yaubrandon said:
I should really give up on this, because it is getting frustrating. You really need to read the previous comments, and try look at them from an objective point of view, taking into account that every car maker makes compromises. No car will ever be perfect at everything, including Audi's.
Audi so boring cars to drive that people are dying 
yaubrandon
Precision Tuner
TycoonGTR said:You like to watch/play football acc. to your profile, so i guess you'll understand me when i say to you that you just got a yellow card from me... I think you know what follows after the second yellow card...
what? that post is off-topic, and 'is that you' is only joking. i don't mean humiliating anyone in the forum.
sorry for that if he feeled offended...yaubrandon
Precision Tuner
i don't think carmag are in the same prospective to the consumers. most consumers in this class don't care too much about handling, so it's only a bonus. however, some carmag editors always think handling is everything, so it's natural for them to say 5 series is better than A6.
for some buyers, they only buy cars with brands they're familiar with, that's why all the people buy MB in hk...
(the sales of MB was 1/3 of Toyota last year in hk) so even Audi (they don't know what the hell's that) is so good, no one cares.
for some buyers, they only buy cars with brands they're familiar with, that's why all the people buy MB in hk...
(the sales of MB was 1/3 of Toyota last year in hk) so even Audi (they don't know what the hell's that) is so good, no one cares.yaubrandon
Precision Tuner
What do you know what is acceptable level? There is no set "acceptable" level that defines a executive sedan/performance sedan. So please don't say that M5 doesn't provide acceptable levels. The fact that I've been in an M5 and other German/Japanese/European/French cars, means I've been able to compare the cars, and the M5 is more than acceptable that those areas.Gene said:
This has to be the comment of the year. Although I'll be mature, and hope you meant performance sedans.
I should really give up on this, because it is getting frustrating. You really need to read the previous comments, and try look at them from an objective point of view, taking into account that every car maker makes compromises. No car will ever be perfect at everything, including Audi's.[/quote]
ok, i have never said Audi is unbeatable, i just express my views that Audi is better in building performance SEDANS (sorry for some typos earlier) than BMW. i won't argue with you if you say BMW has better handling than Audi, coz that's partly correct and i've no evidence to answer back.
for RS6, that's only a beast forced to be created by Audi just to keep its fame, or people might think Audi isn't comparable to other brands. to achieve some big saloons with good handling like M5 are brilliant, but that isn't neccessary. that's just for not to 'loose face', like Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru STi always compete of max torque in new models. do you think common people can distinguish Evo VII's and Evo IX's engine just by driving them once? what they want is NUMBER. what the consumers know is 'BMW M5's 0-100 is 4.7 and S6 is 5.2, so BMW is better', so Audi needs to build RS6. that's quite silly indeed...
if you still have to argue, i can't control you. i can only sum up that, M5 might have better driving dynamics and popular, but it isn't fit to be an executive sedan as an S6 can do.
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
yaubrandon said:
and S6 isnt fit to be an executive sedan as an M5 can do. Thats why thousands of people buy a M5 and thats why thousands of people who cant afford a M5 is dreaming about a M5. Cars like M5, RS6, E63 wouldnt exist if people didnt buy them. Brandon just accept that M5 and S6 are build for differents goal in mind and directed to different buyers and then end the discussion there. At the moment this thread is still the same page after page. Getting rediciolus actually
yaubrandon
Precision Tuner
Just_me said:and S6 isnt fit to be an executive sedan as an M5 can do. Thats why thousands of people buy a M5 and thats why thousands of people who cant afford a M5 is dreaming about a M5. Cars like M5, RS6, E63 wouldnt exist if people didnt buy them. Brandon just accept that M5 and S6 are build for differents goal in mind and directed to different buyers and then end the discussion there. At the moment this thread is still the same page after page. Getting rediciolus actually
M5 and RS6 are really unnecessary in my opinion, coz they aren't keeping on their initial mission-providing a lot of comfort. you're right, just_me, that sounds rediculous, but that's the truth. the consumers are only concerned on number, yea, NUMBERS. they can use their cars to show off. if they only want comfort and a bit more speed, they can well choose 550i, which makes more sense, and, not bad, 0-100 <6s.
on the other hand, S6 is just like a tuned up 550i of BMW, but not as rediculous as RS6/M5. unnecessary is unnecessary, i don't have the power to change your mind if you still don't believe. i know, people always buy nonsense cars, coz they themselves are nonsense. M5 is a great car, but it doesn't make sense.
Mr. Chigga_Chan
Quattro Commander
Yes it does make sense. I want to go really really fast, experience knife edge handling, fit 4 passengers, and at the same time be comfortable with ameneties. All while looking really good in my BMW M5. Why deny me my right to buy this car if I have the ability to do so?
yaubrandon
Precision Tuner
Mr. Chigga_Chan said:
i have never asked you not to buy M5, but it really doesn't make sense. i've said M5 is not as comfortable as its competitors. if you do need 'knife edge handling and fits 4 passengers', a lot of cars can do, such as Mitsi Evo, or BMW's M3. 5 series is an executive sedan, so it doesn't fit to be as sporty as M5, coz comfort is compromised.
Zafiro
Supreme Roadmaster
yaubrandon said:
Not everyone care about numbers I care about the driving experience without losing practicality or comfort. And a lot of others care about the same. Therefore M5 is a perfect choice, it makes perfect sense to me.
Not everyone want to bragg about the car like you seem to think. M, AMG and RS are for car enthusiasts. Sure there are people buying this cars just to show off but far away from everyone.
