Rumor: BMW's Sustainable Sports Car Concept coming to Frankfurt '09

[Mr Robert]

It's all fine then. BMW will be out of the sportscar business until the new technology is cheap and good enough.

 

[EnI]

It's all fine then. BMW will be out of the sportscar business until the new technology is cheap and good enough.

Yet mind there will still be some very sporty core models (sports versions), and don't forget the Ms.

While regarding hardcore sportscars - we'll have to wait for some time.

Different strategies ... while eg. BMW are saving money today, Daimler are still coming out with vanity projects of today, and investing into the future by buying stake in Tesla.

Time will tell who was right ... But I guess it won't be Daimler.
I just hope there won't be some last-minute desperate moves by Daimler: like buying tech from Toyota. Ouch!

 

[Sunny]

Yet mind there will still be some very sporty core models (sports versions), and don't forget the Ms.

While regarding hardcore sportscars - we'll have to wait for some time.

Different strategies ... while eg. BMW are saving money today, Daimler are still coming out with vanity projects of today, and investing into the future by buying stake in Tesla.

Time will tell who was right ... But I guess it won't be Daimler.
I just hope there won't be some last-minute desperate moves by Daimler: like buying tech from Toyota. Ouch!

Well, looks like MB will have an EV version of SLS also. Which means they are doing both, a sports car for today and investing in a future version.

 

[Mr Robert]

Well, looks like MB will have an EV version of SLS also. Which means they are doing both, a sports car for today and investing in a future version.

They are clearly a few steps ahead today.

 

[EnI]

Well, looks like MB will have an EV version of SLS also. Which means they are doing both, a sports car for today and investing in a future version.

It depends.
Future is not just putting electromotros in the cars of today.
It's much more ...


As said: of course MB & others are not standing still. But the strategies are different. And eg. Daimler are behaving like having tons of money in their pockets - which they don't. The company is in a much poorer financial condition than the closest rivals. Not a good sign for the future though ...

 

[Sunny]

Havent it already happen? The engine in X6M is pretty much a tuned XDrive50 engine. Next M5 better dont get this engine too.... or else.

Can we put this notion that the engine in X6/5 M is just a N63B44 with the boost turned up to a rest for once and for all. It is not. Yes, it is based on the the engine in N63B44, but with a long list of modifications, and that is not any different from the other M engines like S50 (E36 M3) and S54 both of which was based on M50. Even the S14 (E30 M3) was based on M10. And the M88 used in M1 was also based on M49. And S38s were in turn based on M88. The S62 on E39 M5 was based on M62 too. S85 used in E60 M5 is probably the only completely new engine that M made. The S65 (in E9x M3) is based on S85.

And here is the list of modification on the X6/5 M engine:
New pistons, new cylinder heads, new intake manifold, new patented exhaust manifold with crossover that connects both cylinder banks, a finned aluminum oil pan, altered cam timing, new throttle bodies and two new twin-scroll turbos. I bet that is as long list as most other M engines.

It is ok to have misplaced prejudice against turbo engines, but let us not mix fact with fiction. I think it is partially BMW's fault too, they should not have used a 2.5 ton truck to introduce this magnificent engine or tubos in general or even AWD, but a proper sports car - it would have been a true GTR killer.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Can we put this notion that the engine in X6/5 M is just a N63B44 with the boost turned up to a rest for once and for all.

According to every single review I've seen, it certainly drives that way. "Underwhelming and lacking character" is what I've heard. My next car is targeted to be the F10 M5. If it uses this engine then I will be probably looking elsewhere.

 

[klier]

^^^ Like Sunny said, that has probably more to do with the car than with the engine....or with the automatic gearbox mated to the engine. The F10 M5 will not have an auto box, and will be a completely different car, so even with this new 555 hp monster and a proper sporty gearbox, it should be fine?
That's not to say I like this idea of the X5 M engine in the new M5. I really hope that's not going to be the case....

The base N63 is one of the best V8 engines on earth. With all the M modifications it is even better. And BMW has never made a bad engine. They are the engine masters.

It is ok to have misplaced prejudice against turbo engines, but let us not mix fact with fiction. I think it is partially BMW's fault too, they should not have used a 2.5 ton truck to introduce this magnificent engine or tubos in general or even AWD, but a proper sports car - it would have been a true GTR killer.

100% agree.

 

[Sunny]

According to every single review I've seen, it certainly drives that way. "Underwhelming and lacking character" is what I've heard. My next car is targeted to be the F10 M5. If it uses this engine then I will be probably looking elsewhere.

Put the S85 from M5 in a 5200lb truck and it will still drive that way if not worse and just be slower. Yes, a turbo will not have the character of a high revving NA engine, but that doesn't somehow make S63 just an N63 with boost turned up. At least not any more than S50 was an M50 with rev turned up.

 

[PanterroR]

And BMW has never made a bad engine. They are the engine masters.

Period!

 

[Sunny]

BTW S63 has a redline of 7200 rpm which is as much as "high reving" NA engine from AMG.

 

[Zafiro]

Can we put this notion that the engine in X6/5 M is just a N63B44 with the boost turned up to a rest for once and for all. It is not. Yes, it is based on the the engine in N63B44, but with a long list of modifications, and that is not any different from the other M engines like S50 (E36 M3) and S54 both of which was based on M50. Even the S14 (E30 M3) was based on M10. And the M88 used in M1 was also based on M49. And S38s were in turn based on M88. The S62 on E39 M5 was based on M62 too. S85 used in E60 M5 is probably the only completely new engine that M made. The S65 (in E9x M3) is based on S85.

And here is the list of modification on the X6/5 M engine:
New pistons, new cylinder heads, new intake manifold, new patented exhaust manifold with crossover that connects both cylinder banks, a finned aluminum oil pan, altered cam timing, new throttle bodies and two new twin-scroll turbos. I bet that is as long list as most other M engines.

It is ok to have misplaced prejudice against turbo engines, but let us not mix fact with fiction. I think it is partially BMW's fault too, they should not have used a 2.5 ton truck to introduce this magnificent engine or tubos in general or even AWD, but a proper sports car - it would have been a true GTR killer.

Points taken.



- BUT, media says the X6M feels like a normal X6 to drive. That sucks. BMW should have given the engine in X6M its own character so it differs from other BMW's.

- The engine have the same redline as sDrive50 = 7000 rpm. Thats sucks. (LoL even my babybimmer have a 7000 rpm redline)

- Another problem with X6, the steering is the same as sDrive50. Beauty with M (in the past at least) is that steering are so much better on M versions. More direct feel and quicker.

If people say next M5 drives like a 550i, then BMW got some serious issues.
God forbid it happens

 

[PanterroR]

BUT, media says the X6M feels like a normal X6 to drive.

You still believe in that?

 

[Zafiro]

You still believe in that?

Absolutly. Not a single review had said the opposite. I tend to trust guys that works for carmagazines like EVO,Autocar and Drivers republic.
M3 also got some heavy beating in the beginning because everyone compare the car to M3 E46 but they never said M3 V8 felt like a normal BMW to drive. .

 

[PanterroR]

Suit yourself, i don't believe that it's that bad. They never drove an M SUV until now, so maybe they've had too high expectations...?

Whatever the case is, i doubt, regardless which magazine.

 

[Zafiro]

Suit yourself, i don't believe that it's that bad. They never drove an M SUV until now, so maybe they've had too high expectations...?

EVO rated ML63/Cayenne higher than X6M. Ouch!

 

[Sayyaaf]

The M3 first press tests were also negative .. "the car has gone soft, too comfortable .. etc" and now on their top ten for best driver cars ... I don't know what the press were expecting from the X5/X6 .. but compared to the cayenne I bet they are more hardcore .. the Cayenne manages to be soft yet capable and well balanced .. I think BMW took the same route but in a more focused version .. No Air suspension and more dirct steering .. launch control and more accurate throttle response ..

 

[Zafiro]

The M3 first press tests were also negative .. "the car has gone soft, too comfortable .. etc" and now on their top ten for best driver cars ...

but that was only becuase the compare it to M3 E46. The problem with X6M is that people compare the X6M to a normal X6. You see the difference, right.
And a 2000 kg "sporty" SUV will never be on a top ten list.

 

[PanterroR]

^I say it's a BS.

 

[Zafiro]

Over at Autobild they say following thing: "A sports car study with a Diesel and two electric motors."