Comparison tests Porsche 918 vs McLaren P1 vs LaFerrari
- Thread starter hoffmeister_fan
- Start date
Who said Pzero are a good tire,? on road yes they are ok, but that's it. On track sorry but they are not good done over 20k miles in 2 X 991Turbo S, they just over heat, even after 3 dial downs, also the grip is not good, its just brakes away then leans on the TC...
Was round Silverstone yesterday for 3 hrs, had very hard time to keep a A45 360BHP, Merc behind that was on MP-Super Sports......
Ibonu/Luque thinks the PZeros are better than MPSS because they beat it in some random tyre test. Hence he thinks the first 12C test with the PZeros against the MPSS-equipped 458 was fair.
Why do you want always loose ? Castle combe same day same conditions = 458 spec 1 seconds faster.
and this because is simply a better engineered car. Deal with it
Of course are wet lap times Genius. Just to remark you are comparing MP-12C with semislicks PZCS with
those of 458 with MPS2.
The only spamming with rubbish this and other websites is you.
The 991 posted outstanding lap times with Pzero. Now bring me same evidence of lap times in MPSS
Outside the K1 Ferrari. Waiting for your evidence
Still waiting the McLaren media controlling Mafia permits to know TG Castelloli time.
Trofero R is faster. This is the only simply fact
Stop with drugs, Emu. Where the 1380 Kg come from ? P1 Motortrend Curb weight is 1500Kg
Where are the other 120 Kg ?
Here we are. Trying to sell ice lolly to an eskimo.
<< hitting a sustained peak G-load of 1.79 in turn 7 at Texas World Speedway, a very fast banked turn around the back of the track.>>
That's have nothing to do with downforce. At the ring in Schwalbenschwanz - karussel (banked turn) 918 it 1,75 g as well.
Keep trying Emu.
I said they are comparable Genius. Tires are moving. Actual Pzero is not that one of 2010.
Snd anyway your beloved MP4-12C with PZCS was not able to beat the 1:20,3 done by a 458 MY2009 with PS2. Lol any other excuses ?
In same test a Noble M600 with MPSS have been tested. Time ? 1:20,8 s
Ans then ?
Cup 2 vs PZCS.
458 with MPSS mostly. The 12C also ran a number of times on PZeros.
Go speak to Apolo1.
http://www.germancarforum.com/threads/porsche-918-vs-mclaren-p1-vs-laferrari-topgear-evo-etc.52070/page-82#post-738585
PZCS tyres vs Cup 2 again. Plus tweaked 918WP, hence why higher speed on the straight. Estimated hp in 4 figures.
Not much faster, not 1.3s faster on a 72s lap - 1:11.11 vs 1:12.40.
As mentioned before, Treynor's car is not the lightest possible example by any means. 1380kg is the weight with no fuel. Since the CoG comes in well over what the actual CoG is, any slight discrepancies matter not.
918 was on Cup 2s on a steeper banking, made 1.75g, P1 on PZCS on a less steep banking made 1.79g. I rest my case.
Meanwhile further to your CoG arguments.
http://mp4-12c.over-blog.com/article-the-m838t-in-detail-96779498.html
You have based your entire case on speculation that the P1's CoG is higher than the 918's purely because the battery (5% of the weight) is higher, but the other 95% is all lower in race mode. Hence your case is fatally flawed from the off, so posting tables and trying to look clever will not help you.
Except they are not comparable, genius. PZeros are useless relative to MPSS, which is the second fastest tyre Michelin do. This is your problem, you want comparisons with Michelin's fastest tyre against Pirelli's second fastest tyre, and between Michelin's 2nd fastest tyre and Pirelli's 3rd fastest tyre. Errr... actually with PZCS it did 1:19.6, which is a more representative comparison against the 1:19.3 set on MPSS. Fact is that the 12C beat the 458 times nearly everywhere, before leaving the 458 for dead in 625hp guise as I've already shown. The 458 was just heavier, even without turbos.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/mclaren_mp4-12c_my2013-vs-ferrari_458_italia.html
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/ferrari_458_italia-vs-mclaren_mp4-12c.html
I rest my case.
Yawn (really boring). Almost every carmakers are with Pirelli PZCS and only EMU is arguing about Pirelli semislicks just to cover McLaren débâcle.
Ferrari used PZCS for years beating Porsche with MPSC. An just not on the press
Semislicks vs semislicks.
http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2010/10/axis-of-power-porsche-997-gt2-vs.html
That's an argument for looser.
False. The MP4-12c run only the first two time with Pzero. Bedford (1:20,6 ) and Rockingham (1:30,2) asking to switch to PZCS for new laps. All Mp4-12C time in the list are with PZCS. 458 MY 2011 have MPSS from 2nd half 2011.
The fax machine have 100% lost vs 458 when one vs one same day same condition
I don't need to speak with anyone. I work with Pirelli engineer 365 years per day and they well known about their products.
Lol. Excuse only excuses
Once again explain us the minus 120 Kg where came from ? Tell us how as a mere mortal can order a 1380 Kg P1 all included less the fuel.
Still waiting.
918 was at 59 mph the P1 at 100 mph. In all P1 lap I don't see more than 1,36g and with bend at 90 mph. The car is on TROFEO R tires.
http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/watch-a-mclaren-p1-drive-texas-world-speedway-in-fast-f-1655147444
I just showed to you that the P1 can not have 600 kg of downforce. Your babbling about the downforce raising grip are junk. You can check all the video in Texas speedway. Braking from high speed too. Just your childish pride doesn't want to admit the truth
When we start to discusse about this, you had no idea of what a tires was.
Do you have any idea of Pirelli marketing ? Do you think they are all idiot ?
The trofeo R is simply the new motorsport generation tires that replaced the old corsa semislicks
Its market share and production is very limited, as for Yokohama A048 or other Motor sport semislicks
They can not be stored under 5°c. The technical advice for the MPSC2 says under -10°c
Just to fix to you of which compound we are talking about
Michelin have not a similar product in range
The PZCS is the natural competitor of the MPSC2. Not semislicks and dot streetable Track & Competition tire.
The new Aventador 750SV fit 2015 PZero corsa and there is a reason why Ferrari fitted PZCS in la ferrari as well and rumor says faster than 918 in Anglesey.
MPSS are in the same class of the PZERO
MPS3 are in the same class of the P7
If you were right PZERO should match the PS3 but the PS3 is not used as OEM on any Sport car and it doesn't have the right sizes (no 20 inches size and up 285 tread width)
Plain and simple.
Facts are that the Fax machine was not able to beat any 458 time lap with PS2 wearing the Pzero. And your house of cards is down again. Weight turbos ?
Emu , 918 weights more and have not turbos. Get it ?
From TreynorSadly my information comes from someone who was actually at the test, who owns a P1 and has all the test telemetry. It is interesting that owners say HL lasts longer and also interesting that this year's 918 was an average of 3-4mph faster on every straight. It'll be interesting to compare charge depletion rate between the 2014 918 and the 2015 918 if MT launch a video of the day.
918 2014 test / 2015 test (Delta)
T2-3 99mph vs 102mph (+3mph)
T3-4 105mph vs 108mph (+3mph)
T4-5 134mph vs 139mph (+5mph)
T5-6 122mph vs 126mph (+4mph)
T6-7 131mph vs 134mph (+3mph)
T8-9 91mph vs 99mph (+8mph)
T9-10 107mph vs 109mph (+2mph)
T10-11 111mph vs 113mph (+2mph)
2014 918 lap at 1:01:10
<< That night Carlos sends me telemetry from BDC and our MRLS day. We both note the new 918 is showing higher speeds than the last one they drove. I review telemetry and tell him I think the difference is due to technique on corner exit, not horsepower - the speed gap remains constant throughout the straights. Carlos checks the tire codes on both cars with the ones recorded by Tire Rack. They match. Looks like a legit result, modulo possible tweaking like suspension settings. I observe the braking advantage the 918 shows into 2, 7 and ask if he can send the telemetry to McLaren. Carlos agrees, McLaren rep says they will look it over.>>
Another piece of crap from our friend EMU that doesn't sleep just to fin explaination about P1 débâcle.
Now he has not the tire excuses so any desperate attempts is now legit
Lol. Just McLaren fanboy. We are spoken about LSD and he came up with standing start launch
From Autocar : Britain’s Best Driver’s Car 2014
<< The McLaren also understeered where the GT3 and 458 just gripped at the front and went. At the exit of Quarry and through Tower, for example, the 650S’s front end washed away surprisingly fast, and all you could then do was wait and be patient. Dialling up more throttle merely added understeer, or a wild hit of oversteer >>
Lol still all marketing garbage ?
So how come a 650S Spider made the same time as a 458S on Cup 2 on Autocar Dry Handling and then laid waste to it on the Wet Handling Track?
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/ferrari_458_speciale-vs-mclaren_650s_spider.html
Wrong. But guess what it lost by less than a second at Rockingham even with the shitty PZeros.
That would explain your bias, both for Pirelli and Ferrari - Italian fan boy.
Same excuses you used at Anglesey Coastal, except legitimate in this case.
Dry weight minus all heavy options.
Article is incorrect. And the banking is way less than the Karussell.
Sure it does. Apparently Ferrari did 1600-1360kg = 240kg and added that to the downforce figures for the LaFerrari.
And Cup 2 replaces the old already very sticky Cup.
Rubbish. Never seen any car on PZCS beat a car in the same class on Cup 2s. Why didn't Pirelli take them to their little tyre test with Chris Harris? Because they'd have lost.
Faster than PZCS time only and yes, that's only a rumour, so it may never have happened, much like 9.6s@157mph and 1360kg LOL.
Except both Apolo1 and I say you're talking garbage.
Facts are this:
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/mclaren_mp4-12c_my2013-vs-ferrari_458_italia.html
The verdict
McLaren MP4-12C is noticeably faster.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/ferrari_458_italia-vs-mclaren_mp4-12c.html
The verdict
McLaren MP4-12C is noticeably faster.
I rest my case.
With all due respect that isn't mathematically possible. Attaining an extra 3-4mph at near 140mph would require an exit speed tens of mph faster, not simply 3-4mph faster. Acceleration against distance is highly non-linear. A more valid explanation is that either:
a) The production cars have 70hp more, or
b) HL mode was tweaked.
There's a technique to it, ask Jason Hart. Randy Pobst didn't seem to have any problems at Big Willow, even with Direzionale on the fronts messing things up. Made a pretty stunning time, faster than a Viper ACR, that has 1000lbs of downforce at 150mph, all on 91 octane.
Seems to me you're just an irrational fan of everything Italian from tyres to cars.
The MPSC2 is lower-rolling resistance tire using stiffer build constructions and hard rubber compounds to achieve low rolling resistance and fuel savings.
There is an inverse relationship between low rolling resistance and wet grip performance that even the highest tire techonolgy could only mitigate.
No I'm correct. It's you that are just living in denial.
Fax Machine Pzero 1:30,06 (+1.76s)
Fax Machine PZCS : 1:29,24 (+0,94s)
458 : 1:28,30
Totally spanked. Another evidence you are a cheater.
That's explain my knowledge. You actually know how to be banned.
120 Kg of heavy options.
I will ask Treynor if he ordered a P1 with lead rims.
That's the n°1 BS from your side.
Article is correct, Trofeo R are reported in Jason hart you tube video.
In the video no more than 1,36g except that fast banked turn.
All said.
Ah really ? And why the 650s lapped faster than a 458 in Vairano or with same lap time in Mira ?
Pirelli TROFEO R target are owners that are doing trackdays, Genius.
That's why showing how much is faster than a MPSC2. The PZCS is an OE tires and have two times more homologation than MPSC2. Ridicolous post
You quote people at your convenience. Everyone can read your garbage and your boundless ability to assert false. See Above
Lol again, but do you have tracked your car just one time in your life ?
Any car of the world have a setup that is a compromise on track and on the road
The 650S lack of an LSD and has much power and torque to manage than a 458S and with the same tire size. That means the F/R roll stiffness setup (the 650S has no rollbars but dual chamber shock tenneco system) is built to permit load transfer to the rear to increase motricity.
In Quarry and tower turns the setup and brake steer are not enough. You get understeer even under acceleration (more torque transfer is needed on the outer wheel) insisting under power, the inner wheel loose grip
Porsche have been more clever. The PVT system is similar but it works with a Mechanical Locked Differential.
Seems to me you are a kid just stucked talking about tires.
The MPSC2 is lower-rolling resistance tire using stiffer build constructions and hard rubber compounds to achieve low rolling resistance and fuel savings.
There is an inverse relationship between low rolling resistance and wet grip performance that even the highest tire techonolgy could only mitigate.
No I'm correct. It's you that are just living in denial.
Fax Machine Pzero 1:30,06 (+1.76s)
Fax Machine PZCS : 1:29,24 (+0,94s)
458 : 1:28,30
Totally spanked. Another evidence you are a cheater.
That's explain my knowledge. You actually know how to be banned.
120 Kg of heavy options.
I will ask Treynor if he ordered a P1 with lead rims.
That's the n°1 BS from your side.
Article is correct, Trofeo R are reported in Jason hart you tube video.
In the video no more than 1,36g except that fast banked turn.
All said.
Ah really ? And why the 650s lapped faster than a 458 in Vairano or with same lap time in Mira ?
Pirelli TROFEO R target are owners that are doing trackdays, Genius.
That's why showing how much is faster than a MPSC2. The PZCS is an OE tires and have two times more homologation than MPSC2. Ridicolous post
You quote people at your convenience. Everyone can read your garbage and your boundless ability to assert false. See Above
So how come a 650S Spider made the same time as a 458S on Cup 2 on Autocar Dry Handling and then laid waste to it on the Wet Handling Track?
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/ferrari_458_speciale-vs-mclaren_650s_spider.html
Wrong. But guess what it lost by less than a second at Rockingham even with the shitty PZeros.
That would explain your bias, both for Pirelli and Ferrari - Italian fan boy.
Same excuses you used at Anglesey Coastal, except legitimate in this case.
Dry weight minus all heavy options.
Article is incorrect. And the banking is way less than the Karussell.
Sure it does. Apparently Ferrari did 1600-1360kg = 240kg and added that to the downforce figures for the LaFerrari.
And Cup 2 replaces the old already very sticky Cup.
Rubbish. Never seen any car on PZCS beat a car in the same class on Cup 2s. Why didn't Pirelli take them to their little tyre test with Chris Harris? Because they'd have lost.
Faster than PZCS time only and yes, that's only a rumour, so it may never have happened, much like 9.6s@157mph and 1360kg LOL.
Except both Apolo1 and I say you're talking garbage.
Oh look Rockingham. 458 gets highest speed on the straight. Like that'll ever happen. That didn't even happen at Bedford West on a shorter track on the super crappy PZeros. Either a tweaked 458 or a sandbagging driver. Oh but McLaren cheated for not wanting a PZero vs MPSS comparison, whereas Ferrari just came with impossibly faster straight line speed?
Yeah, they switched to PZCS because PZeros are absolute dogshit that have no place on any performance car and can't possibly compete with PZCS.Texas Speedway. Big deal, it still pulled a higher g than the 918 on the Karussell, despite the banking being about 10deg as opposed to the 30+deg on the Karussell. Deal with it.
Very shortly the P1 will come back with fixed ABS and unf**k the Laguna time too and then you'll be able to take your head back out of your butt and see reality, just as it was presented at Anglesey.
Facts are this:
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/mclaren_mp4-12c_my2013-vs-ferrari_458_italia.html
The verdict
McLaren MP4-12C is noticeably faster.
http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/ferrari_458_italia-vs-mclaren_mp4-12c.html
The verdict
McLaren MP4-12C is noticeably faster.
I rest my case.
With all due respect that isn't mathematically possible. Attaining an extra 3-4mph at near 140mph would require an exit speed tens of mph faster, not simply 3-4mph faster. Acceleration against distance is highly non-linear. A more valid explanation is that either:
I agree with Wtdoom user. Grow up and stop living in denial.
You cannot have excuses for everything
a) The production cars have 70hp more, or
b) HL mode was tweaked.
Reply to Wtdoom:
I wasn't including the main straight in my figures - it was +13mph there. I only looked at the other straights and even ignored the straight after the corkscrew, where it was +8mph. Turboad said the production versions may have had a power boost. This is probably the most likely explanation. Castelloli though, is still a different matter, assuming TG didn't misprint it.
There's a technique to it, ask Jason Hart. Randy Pobst didn't seem to have any problems at Big Willow, even with Direzionale on the fronts messing things up. Made a pretty stunning time, faster than a Viper ACR, that has 1000lbs of downforce at 150mph, all on 91 octane.
Seems to me you're just an irrational fan of everything Italian from tyres to cars.
Tower? You talking about the Bedford lap on PZeros again.
Face it. The 12C and 650S are above the 458 on the leaderboard for more tracks then they are behind. That's just plain fact. So all your blah, blah, LSD, is just the same as we've heard from the UK magazines who set some of the worse 12C/650S lap times. They don't like the lack of LSD because they can't drift the car as well. Meanwhile, over in the US, the 12C and 650S have stamped a gaping wide hole in the ass of the 458 that it needed surgery to fix, hence the 488.
Mafalda
Stuttgart Specialist
fastestlaps is just a databases, and a little bit stupid because compares all the hotlaps
-relaible or not
- official or not
- direct comparo or not...
ex, when no direct comparo, the 12C humilates the 458 (Top gear-3s), but when on the same track the same day, usually the 458 wins
and also, the overall 458 wins again..
-relaible or not
- official or not
- direct comparo or not...
ex, when no direct comparo, the 12C humilates the 458 (Top gear-3s), but when on the same track the same day, usually the 458 wins
and also, the overall 458 wins again..
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