Origins of the "Sedoupe". It didn't begin with the C219 CLS.

[Deleted member 1071]

My personal favorite genre of automobile. The rakish, athletic, lowslung, fixed-roof 4 door. The concept has become quite popular since the introduction of the Mercedes-Benz C219 CLS. Inspiration, however, was certainly drawn from a number of automobiles that were presented decades before the M-B "trendsetter".

Would the 1934 Pierce Arrow Silver Arrow qualify ?:

...or the 1936 Cord 810 Westchester ?:

Surely the 1937 Bugatti Type 57 Galibier...

...or the CLS' great-grandfather, the 1938 M-B 320 Autobahnkurier...

...and how about a pair of Lagondas' from the 1960s' and 1970s' respectively ?...

...Rovers' 3500 V8 P5B, perhaps ? It was even officially designated as a "coupe":

...and speaking of Rovers...

...and, of course, not to forget the slickest 4 door automobile of its' era...

 

[J.E]

Does the Mazda RX-8 qualify as a "sedoupe"? Saturn ION Quad Coupe?

I have to disagree with you @Rolf on the Rover SD1. It's got a hatchback, so not quite a "sedoupe".

 

[Rolf]

Does the Mazda RX-8 qualify as a "sedoupe"? Saturn ION Quad...

Lol @J.E i think you meant @Jimmy in your post. I agree the SD1 was perhaps more a hatchback than a sedoup. Also agree about the RX8 it was a 4dr Coupé also and a great looking one. Jimmy has a nice collection of classics in his post

 

[Matski]

I think it depends on how one defines a coupe as to what may be the best execution.

The SD-1 is a good example. We had one as a family car when I was about 6 as my father had just started working for Rover at the point. I don't think it fits any definition of a four door coupe aside from it's unashamed stylistic inspiration of the Ferrari 365 GTB 'Daytona'... and I think it looks great for it.

The Aston/Lagonda's are interesting examples too, as they are very much coachbuilt items that added 2 doors to a coupe... yet visually, I think they look pretty bad (the Rapide pretty much followed in the same lines)... and of course the Virage based 4 doors look straight up crap...

.. and THE poster car of my youth, the Vantage, didn't fair any better either...

They effectively turn a coupe into a saloon, without really retaining the styling that works as a 2 door.


For me, the car that works best... the car that takes a coupe and adds a meaningful set of rear doors, is the 6 Series Gran Coupe...

It's a Coupe that doesn't sacrifice anything (visually) in being turned into a four, and retains enough of sexy profile to be as desirable as the Coupe.

The W218 CLS is one of my favourite Mercedes designs, and it's a sleek 4 door indeed, but there's nothing about it that says 'coupe' to me, even though it'd have made quite the impressive 2 door!

 

[J.E]

Lol @J.E i think you meant @Jimmy in your post. I agree the SD1 was perhaps more a hatchback than a sedoup. Also agree about the RX8 it was a 4dr Coupé also and a great looking one. Jimmy has a nice collection of classics in his post

Holy shit do I need glasses or what?!

Sorry for not mentioning you @Jimmy

Rover SD1 was just a hatchback. Mercedes CLS and BMW 8er GC are proper sedoupes.

 

[martinbo]

Better terminology for SD1 is fastback or liftback - hatchbacks tend to have more upright rear doors.

 

[LaArtist]

Yeah these arent 4 door coupes

 

[DjordjeC63]

Tatra?

 

[Centurion]

Tatra?

View attachment 5

It's like a huge insect on wheels.

 

[DjordjeC63]

Its very cool. Besides cool aerodynamic look, it has rear mounted, air cooled v8. Ferdinand Porsche stole their design for KDF Wagen (VW Beetle) - see Tatra V570. Tatra has sued VW after WW2 and won.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Its very cool. Besides cool aerodynamic look, it has...

No, Tatra sued VW before the war, but the decision of the court came simultaneously with the invasion of Czechoslovakia by the Germans.

 

[GTA45E]

What ultimately separates the CLS from most anything labeled as a 4-door coupe IMO is
low slung green house that continues through the C-Pillar.

Most every other "4-door coupe" is designed as a fast-back with traditional high sedan doors (at the rear in particular.)
The rear doors of the CLS are cut very low. You literally have to bow your head to get in the rear seat, just like most 2-door coupes, if not you will smash your head against the roof line which does not feel good.
The CLS just might be original at this.

 

[J.E]

God, I love the CLS. Damn you Mercedes for not making an AMG 63 of the new one.

 

[hovabongZA]

Despite what may be an inelegant hofmeister kink the overall silhouette of the 8GC remains very coupish as it should be it's the only "sedoupe" based on an actual coupe.

 

[Wolfgang]

Tatra has sued VW after WW2 and won.

Yes, believe Bela Barenyi, who at the time led advanced design at MB, sued VW without the help of MB, and won.

Chassis designed by Béla Barényi

The idea of a people’s car inspires many engineers to search for new technical concepts. In 1925, the 18-year old technology student Béla Barényi designs a chassis for a people’s car. His design features rear-wheel drive, a boxer engine and air cooling, all elements later characteristic of the Beetle.

1904 to 1933 – From the Automotive Dream to the Volkswagen Idea

In the early 20th century the motor car was still a rare mode of transport. There were barely 16,000 throughout all of Germany in 1910. Some were driven as a form of adventure sport, while others were considered a mark of prestige. Cars remained the preserve of the rich and the beautiful people...

www.volkswagenag.com

The instinct of a mastermind.

However, Béla found ways and means to enrol as an engineering student at the Viennese Technical College of Mechanical and Electrical Engineering in 1924. The young student's feel for future trends was astonishing: one of his first design projects was the front end of an automobile whereby the end piece of the body was a horizontal piece, bordered by two horizontal body ends. The horizontal piece as a predominant stylistic element was to be called the “New Look” a few years later – and to be integrated into many automobiles.

In his student days he already thought about the “future people's car”. Sketches he made in 1924-25 prove that he was the intellectual father of the “people’s car” or “Volkswagen”. This would be of particular significance almost twenty years later.

https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/classic/bela-barenyi-the-lifesaver/

 

[chonkoa]

My personal favorite genre of automobile. The rakish, athle...

I think people need to understand the meaning of the word coupe, and then apply it to the modern day interpretation. Bottom line is the ratio of the green house to the door(body) being low. So yes, in a strict as well as loose interpretation, all the examples that you have shared qualify as coupes.
The CLS I would say the reawakened this school of design interpretation of the coupe. BMW GC, Audi A7 all follow the same design interpretation.

 

[Merc1]

This is a very unique looking car, it's utterly gorgeous. So quintessentially British.

Never seen this one before. Classic look. Very handsome.


M

 

[Gianclaudio]

I'll like to mention the Toyota Ceres/Marino, from the 90's:
toyota ceres - Buscar con Google

Very coupe-ish in proportions, frameless windows, super low roof which means stupidly uncomfortable. My head touches the liner, and I'm not tall, at 1,77 mt

Also the Alfa 156, with its hidden rear door handle

 

[martinbo]

Also the Alfa 156, with its hidden rear door handle

Excellent reminder!

 

[klier]

Yeah these arent 4 door coupes

Agreed. The first CLS is the very first sedan-coupe.

In my opinion, this whole sedan coupe is an utter fad. Kill them off. All.