5 Series (G60) [Official] The New BMW 5 Series (G60)

[klier]

Gasoline 6-cylinder engines? Not talking about tiny diesels.

M

ALL engines. But surely you knew.

 

[SCOTT27]

I didn't know Aldi made cars lol.

Yes the rebranded but less expensive range from Aldi AL1 to AL8.

 

[empower77]

Good news! A reliable source suggests that the 8cyl 5 series will be out when the 540i will start sales (Q1 of 2024). This will have some sort of an electrical component, either a mild hybrid, an electrikal assist or a plug in. Might weigh as much as a small asteroid but the 8 will still be available

 

[SCOTT27]

Solden,Austria.
And Action!

 

[Merc1]

ALL engines. But surely you knew.

Blanket statement with nothing behind it. Anything else would be a shock.

M

 

[SKY]

OK, I'll start.

First let's understand that these are both superb mid-sized sports sedans, probably the best in class. They both have their pros and cons but it's a bit of a reach to suggest that one is "clearly inferior" to the other. In fact, one's ultimate decision may be more a reflection of personal preferences than anything else of a more objective nature.

Exterior design - I think the nod here goes to the M-B as it's smoother, more coherent and less jarring than the BMW. The M-B tail lights are a little weird but overall, it's a much more pleasing design.

Interior aesthetics - Again, this is largely a subjective matter but the MB is just too over-the-top with ambient lights everywhere that cheapens the look and refinement of the interior. The BMW is very attractive with tons of tech and wonderful ambient lighting that still keeps the interior looking refined and purposeful. Fit and finish on both are excellent although each has areas where there is evidence of cost cutting. MB upholstery options and color choices are far, far better than the BMW.

Interior comfort - The interior of the M-B has a rather confining appearance with a huge center console that limits footroom, especially on the passenger side. The interior of the BMW is far more open and spacious both in fact and in feel. Rear seat leg and headroom in the BMW is significantly better than the MB.

Engines and drivetrains - I can't comment about the 4 cylinder options in either vehicle as I would never buy a car in this segment with a 4 cylinder engine. The inline 6 in the BMW is literally iconic. There's probably never been a mass production 6 that's any better than the inline 6 of the BMW. MB made a very smart move in (finally) designing their own inline 6 and shelving the V6. And while it appears to be a competent engine its long term reliability is unknown as it's only been in production for a year or so. Not only is the power and smoothness of the BMW inline 6 legendary, its effeciency is insane with the engine being rated by the EPA as 28mpg overall. That's a crazy number for an engine generating a conservative 375hp powering a two ton vehicle. I doubt you'll see anything close to this from the MB inline 6. Transmissions in both vehicles are superb.

Reliability - This one's not even close. The BMW consistently has proven to be more trouble free and reliable than the MB. This is not even debatable.

I believe this generation both cars are quite even in terms of driving dynamics. E-Class seems to have a better interior in terms of quality, but it comes at a price much higher than the 5er.

I could understand going for each of them, tbh.

 

[PsychDoc]

Blanket statement with nothing behind it. Anything else would be a shock.

M

Do you have any doubt that MB has lagged significantly behind BMW in reliability for years?

Just take a look at JD Powers results or Consumers Reports.
BMW is clearly a significantly more reliable car.

 

[PsychDoc]

I believe this generation both cars are quite even in terms of driving dynamics. E-Class seems to have a better interior in terms of quality, but it comes at a price much higher than the 5er.

I could understand going for each of them, tbh.

Not "much higher" at all. Similarly equipped, these two vehicles are within $3k - $5k.

I do agree about the driving dynamics. MB has done a good job here closing the gap. From what I've seen and read the W214 and the G60 are pretty much on a par with one another.

As to the interiors, the MB looks quite posh at first glance but there are areas of cost cutting in both vehicles. Rattles and squeeks are also far more common in the MB. If you're looking for a "Tokyo at night" look, the W214 is your car. If a bit more refinement is the goal, the G60 is where you want to be.

 

[PsychDoc]

Consumer Reports: Most reliable car brands of 2023

Consumer Reports released its exclusive car reliability report, revealing what car owners find to be the most reliable vehicles.

www.wral.com

"Auto brands at the bottom of the reliability report were Rivian, Mercedes-Benz and Chrysler."

And then there's this -

 

[Merc1]

Do you have any doubt that MB has lagged significantly behind BMW in reliability for years?

Just take a look at JD Powers results or Consumers Reports.
BMW is clearly a significantly more reliable car.

We were talking about efficiency of engines.

Now, from what I’ve seen experienced with BMW and Mercedes it’s a wash at best. BMWs seem far more fragile as they age. Those JDP surveys don’t give you a breakout of what the issues are. CR and JDP run very different methods and the car manufacturers have to pay to see the actual data. Someone not knowing how to operate infotainment is not the same as a failed transmission. First year surveys don’t mean much. I personally much more into the JDP dependability study as it looks at 3 years of ownership but you can’t see what the actual problems are.


M

 

[PsychDoc]

We were talking about efficiency of engines.

Now, from what I’ve seen experienced with BMW and Mercedes it’s a wash at best. BMWs seem far more fragile as they age. Those JDP surveys don’t give you a breakout of what the issues are. CR and JDP run very different methods and the car manufacturers have to pay to see the actual data. Someone not knowing how to operate infotainment is not the same as a failed transmission. First year surveys don’t mean much. I personally much more into the JDP dependability study as it looks at 3 years of ownership but you can’t see what the actual problems are.


M

I've owned two 5 series over the past 12 years (F10 and G30) and both have been shockingly trouble free.

Based on validated data like that which I posted, you'd have to do some pretty impressive mental gymnastics not to conclude that BMW is far more reliable from day one compared to MB.

 

[Merc1]

I've owned two 5 series over the past 12 years (F10 and G30) and both have been shockingly trouble free.

Based on validated data like that which I posted, you'd have to do some pretty impressive mental gymnastics not to conclude that BMW is far more reliable from day one compared to MB.

You missed the point totally. Yes the rankings are clear, but you have no idea why, especially when it comes to the JDP survey. It’s really a matter of what these “problems” really are. If you actually did some research on it you’d see it isn’t as cut and dry as posting the rankings and calling it a day. Again not saying MB is more reliable. Some of the European surveys count a flat tire as breakdown. That isn’t the manufacturers fault. Our ownership experiences have been vastly different regarding BMW. It happens.

M

 

[PsychDoc]

You missed the point totally. Yes the rankings are clear, but you have no idea why, especially when it comes to the JDP survey. It’s really a matter of what these “problems” really are. If you actually did some research on it you’d see it isn’t as cut and dry as posting the rankings and calling it a day. Again not saying MB is more reliable. Some of the European surveys count a flat tire as breakdown. That isn’t the manufacturers fault. Our ownership experiences have been vastly different regarding BMW. It happens.

M

You can keep redefining the question, critique methodologies and moving the goal posts but, at the end of the day, BMW consistently is shown to be significantly more trouble-free.

No amount of revisionist history or wishful thinking is going to change that fact. And for someone like me, who plans to own a car for years after the warranty expires, that's a very important variable.

 

[Merc1]

You can keep redefining the question, critique methodologies and moving the goal posts but, at the end of the day, BMW consistently is shown to be significantly more trouble-free.

No amount of revisionist history or wishful thinking is going to change that fact. And for someone like me, who plans to own a car for years after the warranty expires, that's a very important variable.

Yep and you still won’t have the details either. I never said Mercedes was more reliable. You simply aren’t getting what I said. I didn’t move any goal posts. I never said a word about what was more trouble free. Good luck owning any German car long after the warranty expires. It’s going to be expensive either way you wanna slice it. None of your surveys goes past 1,2, or 3 years, so it’s whatever you need to tell yourself in using them for something they don’t even measure.

M

 

[PsychDoc]

Yep and you still won’t have the details either. I never said Mercedes was more reliable. You simply aren’t getting what I said. I didn’t move any goal posts. I never said a word about what was more trouble free. Good luck owning any German car long after the warranty expires. It’s going to be expensive either way you wanna slice it. None of your surveys goes past 1,2, or 3 years, so it’s whatever you need to tell yourself in using them for something they don’t even measure.

M

And if you know of any I'd be happy to review them.
However, based on available metrics for reliability I'll go with the conclusion that BMW is a more reliable vehicle than MB.

I'm well aware of the risks of owning a German car out of warranty. I've been doing this now for well over a decade and I've been pleasantly surprised with the results thus far. It's a crap shoot to be sure, but I feel better going with the brand that the available data points me to. It's been a great decision thus far.

 

[dalab]

 

[klier]

You missed the point totally. Yes the rankings are clear, but you have no idea why, especially when it comes to the JDP survey.

Nah, you're just bringing up other excuses. As usual. That whole JP thing is a gigantic piece of American BS. Leave it there.

Blanket statement with nothing behind it. Anything else would be a shock.

M

LMAO. Every single engine in the last 20 years behind it, but whatever.

Based on validated data like that which I posted, you'd have to do some pretty impressive mental gymnastics not to conclude that BMW is far more reliable from day one compared to MB.

Welcome to Merc1's world.

However, based on available metrics for reliability I'll go with the conclusion that BMW is a more reliable vehicle than MB.

More reliable per JD power (which is a crap source to me but ok), and way more efficient too. Simply superior in all metrics it seems.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

LMAO. Every single engine in the last 20 years behind it, but whatever.

Where is this coming from?

Didn't BMW have to do recalls over the N53 and N54 due to faulty injectors and high pressure pumps (I can personally attest to the sheer f#ckery of the N53)?
The S85 wasn't exactly famed for its stoutness and reliability.
The N62 was another known to be a problem child.
Lots of complaints about the N42 too.

Now I'm not saying Mercedes also hasn't had some big problems (I know the M156 has had some troubles for example), but BMW have had some pretty high profile f#ck-ups in terms of reliability in the last 20 years as well.

Overall vehicle reliability? I don't know. I know Merc was famous for having electrical problems more than mechanical ones. Meanwhile everyone knows that if you want a used BMW you need to have cash in hand to deal with problems too.

If you're saying in the last 5-6 years? Sure. The B58 is bulletproof it seems.

 

[klier]

Where is this coming from?

Didn't BMW have to do recalls over the N53 and N54 due to faulty injectors and high pressure pumps (I can personally attest to the sheer f#ckery of the N53)?
The S85 wasn't exactly famed for its stoutness and reliability.
The N62 was another known to be a problem child.
Lots of complaints about the N42 too.

Uhm, I was talking about the efficiency and BMW always being better. All this reliability talk is brought in by Merc1 to deflect from the point as usual.

Nothing from Germany is reliable and they all break down at some point. Buy a Toyota if this bothers you.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Uhm, I was talking about the efficiency and BMW always being better. All this reliability talk is brought in by Merc1 to deflect from the point as usual.

Nothing from Germany is reliable and they all break down at some point. Buy a Toyota if this bothers you.

I wouldn't own an N53 if I wanted reliability lol.

Efficiency? I really don't know tbh. Mercedes cars are always typically heavier than their BMW counterparts, so I would wager that factors into efficiency as well. So yeah, wouldn't surprise me if they were less efficient.