A8/S8 [Official] The new Audi A8

[SCOTT27]

There has actually been some recent speculation that Bentley Motors will be "discontinuing the production of a model line". The Mulsanne, due to lack of relevant economies of scale, would appear to be the most likely victim. Bentleys' short-to-medium term future lies in the success of the Continental GT/Flying Spur lineups, as the Bentayga is apparently c...

Could it be the Flying Spur? The new one premieres in Geneva.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

Could it be the Flying Spur? The new one premieres in Geneva.

I wouldn't think so. The FS will surely be replaced by what appears to be a now fully developed successor (as you mention, very likely slotted for a Geneva 2019 public presentation).

I assume that the Mulsanne line may be phased-out without a successor. Question: Would Bentley Motors throw in the towel regarding the Bentayga as well ?

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I wouldn't think so. The FS will surely be replaced by what appears to be a now fully developed successor (as you mention, very likely slotted for a Geneva 2019 public presentation).

I assume that the Mulsanne line may be phased-out without a successor. Question: Would Bentley Motors throw in the towel regarding the Bentayga as well ?

I don't think the Bentayga is in a danger of being axed. It needs a huge improvement and it would not cost that much to do it since the base of the car is good. But the Mulsanne on the other hand is very endangered spices being based on an ancient genuin Bentley platform. I doubt that the company has the resources to develop alone a brand new platform and in the same time there is no suitable and already available platform from VAG

 

[Deleted member 1071]

I don't think the Bentayga is in a danger of being axed.

Neither does Bentley Motors CEO Adrian Hallmark, according to a recent interview conducted by Germanys' Autozeitung. He does however question the relevance of a rumoured more sleek "coupe" version and hinted at the possibility of a commercially far more viable EWB version. Complete with PHEV configurations. Not only for the Bentayga, but also for the Continental GT/Flying Spur series.

Hallmark also confirmed a relatively fast-track developement of BEV offerings, the first being "neither an SUV nor a sportscar similar to the EXP 2 seater coupe/roadster concepts". This appears to support speculation that Bentleys' first BEV car will be a 4 door sedoupe based on the Porsche/Audi PPE platform-complete with many of the design cues found on the aforementioned EXP concept cars (which were apparently very favorably received).

 

[Deleted member 1071]

...Horch super saloon will become the most luxurious chauffeur's car in VAG.

Various speculative tidbits regarding the revival of the Horch nameplate date back to the days of C2 as well as C3 100-based Audi 200/200T models. What in fact resulted was the C3 Audi V8-and afterwards, the generations of the A8.

It surprises me a bit that this sort of speculation has reemerged. And I'll admit to chuckling at the thought of "Hortch" or "Hork" making an entry in the North American market. Not unsimilar to "Chef-ro-lett" here in Germany.

 

[tristatez28lt1]

Audi quits bid to give A8 Level 3 autonomy
CHRISTIAAN HETZNER

With no indication on the specific requirements for a Level 3 autonomy, Audi says it won't have sufficient time to make its eyes-off autonomous system compliant in the A8, which is due for a face-lift next year.


FRANKFURT -- Audi has abandoned plans to introduce its Level 3, eyes-off autonomous driving technology in its A8 flagship sedan, a senior executive told Automotive News Europe.

The feature, called Traffic Jam Pilot, was the most significant technological breakthrough added to the latest-generation A8 that debuted in 2017. At that time Audi said the system would only be activated in markets where governments allowed it.

Since then, global regulators in Geneva have still not agreed on a type approval process for even the most rudimentary Level 3 functionality. At that level a vehicle can be put in auto pilot under certain circumstances, allowing the driver to take his eyes off the road.

Given the various regulatory delays, Audi says it won't have sufficient time to make its Level 3 system compliant in the A8, whose facelifted version is due to arrive next year already.

"We will not see the Traffic Jam Pilot on the road with its originally planned Level 3 functionality in the current model generation of the Audi A8 because our luxury sedan has already gone through a substantial part of its model life cycle," Audi Technical Development boss Hans-Joachim Rothenpieler told Automotive News Europe.

All other current production vehicles, including a forthcoming new flagship from Lexus, offer Level 2 autonomy, which provides assistance but requires the driver to remain in control of the vehicle at all times.

Audi had expected the A8 would be the first production car to have the eyes-off conditional autonomy available to private customers. (Waymo launched its Level 4 robocar taxi service Waymo One in Phoenix in December 2018, but this driverless technology is not available commercially).

The setback for Audi means it could end up trailing its its German rivals, if they keep their promises to launch Level 3 or higher systems in this new-generation Mercedes-Benz S-Class sedan due this year and the BMW iNEXT crossover due in 2021.

Rothenpieler cited problems getting regulatory approval for the Traffic Jam Pilot, which when operating would automatically transfer liability in the event of an accident from the driver to the manufacturer.

"Currently, there is no legal framework for Level 3 automated driving and it is not possible to homologate such functions anywhere in the world in a series production car," Rothenpieler said.

Audi initially planned for Traffic Jam Pilot to have restricted functionality, only capable of use on highways separated from oncoming traffic at speeds of up to 60 kph (37 mph). While the benefit may seem limited, drivers would no longer be responsible at all for operating the vehicle during periods of heavy, stop-and-go traffic, leaving them free to read, stream a movie or play video games as the vehicle drove itself.

This image shows how the A8's Level 3 autonomous system was supposed to tell the driver to take back control.

Thus far all current systems on the market such as Tesla’s Autopilot and Super Cruise from General Motors are Level 2. At best, they are able to steer themselves, but require the driver to monitor the surroundings constantly and be prepared at a moment’s notice to assume control. Liability remains firmly with the individual behind the wheel.

Sources close to Audi told Automotive News Europe that corporate lawyers in particular have been critical of any Level 3 system, warning Audi executives that there are no guarantees customers would properly service the vehicle. Should an accident then occur while the car is piloting itself, Audi would be liable even if the system was still 99.9 percent safe at the time it was delivered to the customer.

In its annual 10-K regulatory filing to the SEC, Tesla attested to the problems. The U.S. electric automaker warned of the “likelihood of a patchwork of complex or conflicting regulations” that could delay or limit its full self-driving system, due to be launched at some point in the future, according to the company.

Automakers such as Volvo Cars consider the Level 3 driving mode "unsafe" and will "skip this level of autonomous driving,” CEO Hakan Samuelsson has said.

Rothenpieler agreed that the complications were significant obstacles on the way to even limited, eyes-off conditional autonomy. Therefore, Audi's focus has shifted to improving Level 2 driver-assistance systems that do not transfer any legal responsibility for the vehicle’s operation to the manufacturer at all.

Said Rothenpieler: “The euphoria in the auto industry around Level 3 has subsided substantially.

 

[Centurion]

^^
No surprise. This is the issue with autonomous tech. It's frighteningly expensive to develop and getting regulatory approval is very difficult unless the tech is near dumb proof.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

^^
No surprise. This is the issue with autonomous tech. It's frighteningly expensive to develop...

But wasn't AUDI's management aware of this when they promised that the A8 is level 3 ready.

 

[Centurion]

But wasn't AUDI's management aware of this when they promised that the A8 is level 3...

A department in a multinational organisation wasting resources on unviable projects? Nevah!

 

[AndreB]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Audi quits bid to give A8 Level 3 autonomy
CHRISTIAAN HETZNER

With no indication on the specific requirements for a Level 3 autonomy, Audi says it won't have sufficient time to make its eyes-off autonomous system compliant in the A8, which is due for a face-lift next year.


FRANKFURT -- Audi has abandoned plans to introduce its Level 3, eyes-off autonomous driving technology in its A8 flagship sedan, a senior executive told Automotive News Europe.

The feature, called Traffic Jam Pilot, was the most significant technological breakthrough added to the latest-generation A8 that debuted in 2017. At that time Audi said the system would only be activated in markets where governments allowed it.

Since then, global regulators in Geneva have still not agreed on a type approval process for even the most rudimentary Level 3 functionality. At that level a vehicle can be put in auto pilot under certain circumstances, allowing the driver to take his eyes off the road.

Given the various regulatory delays, Audi says it won't have sufficient time to make its Level 3 system compliant in the A8, whose facelifted version is due to arrive next year already.

"We will not see the Traffic Jam Pilot on the road with its originally planned Level 3 functionality in the current model generation of the Audi A8 because our luxury sedan has already gone through a substantial part of its model life cycle," Audi Technical Development boss Hans-Joachim Rothenpieler told Automotive News Europe.

All other current production vehicles, including a forthcoming new flagship from Lexus, offer Level 2 autonomy, which provides assistance but requires the driver to remain in control of the vehicle at all times.

Audi had expected the A8 would be the first production car to have the eyes-off conditional autonomy available to private customers. (Waymo launched its Level 4 robocar taxi service Waymo One in Phoenix in December 2018, but this driverless technology is not available commercially).

The setback for Audi means it could end up trailing its its German rivals, if they keep their promises to launch Level 3 or higher systems in this new-generation Mercedes-Benz S-Class sedan due this year and the BMW iNEXT crossover due in 2021.

Rothenpieler cited problems getting regulatory approval for the Traffic Jam Pilot, which when operating would automatically transfer liability in the event of an accident from the driver to the manufacturer.

"Currently, there is no legal framework for Level 3 automated driving and it is not possible to homologate such functions anywhere in the world in a series production car," Rothenpieler said.

Audi initially planned for Traffic Jam Pilot to have restricted functionality, only capable of use on highways separated from oncoming traffic at speeds of up to 60 kph (37 mph). While the benefit may seem limited, drivers would no longer be responsible at all for operating the vehicle during periods of heavy, stop-and-go traffic, leaving them free to read, stream a movie or play video games as the vehicle drove itself.

This image shows how the A8's Level 3 autonomous system was supposed to tell the driver to take back control.

Thus far all current systems on the market such as Tesla’s Autopilot and Super Cruise from General Motors are Level 2. At best, they are able to steer themselves, but require the driver to monitor the surroundings constantly and be prepared at a moment’s notice to assume control. Liability remains firmly with the individual behind the wheel.

Sources close to Audi told Automotive News Europe that corporate lawyers in particular have been critical of any Level 3 system, warning Audi executives that there are no guarantees customers would properly service the vehicle. Should an accident then occur while the car is piloting itself, Audi would be liable even if the system was still 99.9 percent safe at the time it was delivered to the customer.

In its annual 10-K regulatory filing to the SEC, Tesla attested to the problems. The U.S. electric automaker warned of the “likelihood of a patchwork of complex or conflicting regulations” that could delay or limit its full self-driving system, due to be launched at some point in the future, according to the company.

Automakers such as Volvo Cars consider the Level 3 driving mode "unsafe" and will "skip this level of autonomous driving,” CEO Hakan Samuelsson has said.

Rothenpieler agreed that the complications were significant obstacles on the way to even limited, eyes-off conditional autonomy. Therefore, Audi's focus has shifted to improving Level 2 driver-assistance systems that do not transfer any legal responsibility for the vehicle’s operation to the manufacturer at all.

Said Rothenpieler: “The euphoria in the auto industry around Level 3 has subsided substantially.

So what exactly will the W223 come with? Will they make a whole lot of fuss at launch like Audi, only to then tell customers it will be made available later on, and then quietly push out the introduction to the facelift.

 

[Serpens]

I personally think the W223 will only have Level 3 active in extremely limited conditions.

 

[sako97]

I forgot all about the D5 A8. Undesirable car in my opinion.

 

[Serpens]

I forgot all about the D5 A8. Undesirable car in my opinion.

All that fighting with Porsche during development and this is what they have to show for it...

 

[Merc1]

The worlds dullest luxury car bar none.

M

 

[TheDeadMan]

A total failure in so many aspects.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

As good as the W222 is, I think it had the enormous luck with such weak competitors like the last generations of the 7er and the A8 (although the LCI 7er was a big step in the right direction).

 

[Deleted member 1071]

I forgot all about the D5 A8.

I imagine that even at VAG, many are attempting to do precisely the same.

The D5 A8/S8 is most certainly not a "bad" car. Quite the opposite actually. But it's about as visually interesting as a glass of lukewarm water is to the palate. I, for one, will certainly not miss it when it is finally retired. And I'm sure that decision makers at Audi AG and VAG are giving the concept of Audis' luxury sedan a very serious "re-think".

 

[emet]

That's the case... In fact it's praised everywere for almost everything... BUT the looks, especially the bland front with huge overhang.

ps. I bet in reality S8 is well over 600hp.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

That's the case... In fact it's praised everywere for almost everything... BUT the looks, especially the bland front with huge overhang.

ps. I bet in reality S8 is well over 600hp.

A set of 22" Abt rims do wonders for the D5s' visual: