Model 3 [Official] Tesla Model 3

[DjordjeC63]

Does somebody have answers:

1. If all cars in Europe became electric, does Europe have enough of electricity?
2. If it has (or will have) would electricity prices go up?
3. If it has (or will have) that electricity is/would be nuclear or solar/wind (this renewable doesnt sound like much)?

 

[Yaz]

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[bimmer6]

Does somebody have answers:

1. If all cars in Europe became electric, does Europe have enough of electricity?
2. If it has (or will have) would electricity prices go up?
3. If it has (or will have) that electricity is/would be nuclear or solar/wind (this renewable doesnt sound like much)?

1. In Germany the overall amount of electricity needed would rise by 15 percent if all cars were electric. (That's what a consultant from Volkswagen Consulting told me at least)
Not the overall amount is the problem but to make the grid stable and to let it deal with peaks in demand.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

1. In Germany the overall amount of electricity needed would rise by 15 percent if all cars were electric. (That's what a consultant from Volkswagen Consulting told me at least)
Not the overall amount is the problem but to make the grid stable and to let it deal with peaks in demand.

One of my most substantial concerns with regard to the transition from fossil fuel to electric mobility here in Germany is the establishing of an effective as well as comprehensive infrastructure. While the technological resources are available, I fear that we will be confronted with a plethora of snafus courtesy of the relevant federal ministries (economy, finance, transport and research & development). They are currently headed by individuals who have showcased their incompetence on more than a few occasions. The outcome of federal elections in fall 2021 (at the latest) will be an important factor.

 

[SKY]

Come visit Holland and see what a real BEV autopark looks like. And while Tesla is most popular, you see all BEV cars a lot here. Even that Jag SUV.

But your country seems relatively prepared for EVs for the current European standards. Spain is most likely not on par with Holland and other northen Euope countries in terms of EV infrastructure. And even with this in mind, I am seeing more Tesla IIIs in the streets than new 3ers. Something I did not think was possible a year ago. And I assure you the 3er has always been extremely popular in Spain.

Times are a changing, that's for sure...

 

[klier]

But your country seems relatively prepared for EVs for the current European standards. Spain is most likely not on par with Holland and other northen Euope countries in terms of EV infrastructure. And even with this in mind, I am seeing more Tesla IIIs in the streets than new 3ers. Something I did not think was possible a year ago. And I assure you the 3er...

Times are not changing, the wallet simply speaks and you are near insane to lease a 3er over a Tesla given the incentives and tax discounts. People don't want to drive electric per say, they want to pay as little per month as possible. And the Model 3 is comparable to a 3er yet much cheaper to drive.

 

[Eng.ahad]

Does somebody have answers:

1. If all cars in Europe became electric, does Europe have enough of electricity?
2. If it has (or will have) would electricity prices go up?
3. If it has (or will have) that electricity is/would be nuclear or solar/wind (this renewable doesnt sound like much)?

Although, renewable energy is increasing specially in Europe ( I read its almost 20% of overall electricity), but demand will certainly increase due to transportation sector rapidly changing to EV, the easy way is to burn more fossil fuel, which means the world is not going to go green any time soon.

Unless someone discovered a breakthrough to recycle most of the energy in the world, power plants will easily increase its capacity by depending on fossil fuel. But still, it is far more environmentally friendly than ICE.

 

[Matski]

1. If all cars in Europe became electric, does Europe have enough of electricity?

2. If it has (or will have) would electricity prices go up?

3. If it has (or will have) that electricity is/would be nuclear or solar/wind (this renewable doesnt sound like much)?

Some simple maths for the UK:

We drive 254 billion miles per year in cars (ignoring other ICE vehicles (buses, trucks etc.).
A Tesla Model III will uses about 255Wh/mile.
So if we all drove Model III's we'd use 64,770,000,000kWh (64.77 TWh) a year. We currently produce about 360TWh, so it'd be an increase of about 18%, in terms of electricity.
We cover a further 73 billion miles a year with commercial vehicles, so in practice, that 18% is going to be higher.

At the moment we're a net importer of energy (i.e. all forms of energy, not just electricity), as is the EU according to UK ONS statistic, so simply speaking no we don't have enough energy NOW, nevermind after a 15-20% increase. So there isn't enough without buying more in...

However, it's a hypothetical scenario. It's going to take a long time to get to 100% usage of EV's as passenger vehicles, so no doubt we'll attempt to scale up renewable energy as demand increases.

40% of our generation is still fossil, but we've managed to increase our renewable production by about what we'd need to power all our cars with electricity within just the last decade, so it's not unreasonable to think we could be generating that 64TWh cleanly, well before the existing stock of ICE cars is replaced by EV's.

Current revenue generated for the government by tax on ICE fuel is about £28 Billion. Even if the per unit cost of electricity doesn't change, they government will need to find a suitable way of levying tax on EV's to replace this.

 

[EnI]

Don't worry, guys. Boris & Tories will bring us commercially viable fusion reactors by 2040.



Cheap Electric Energy Unlimited + Unicorns + Flying Pigs.

 

[Matski]

Don't worry, guys. Boris & Tories will bring us commercially viable fusion reactors by 2040.



Cheap Electric Energy Unlimited + Unicorns + Flying Pigs.

The flying pigs will actually be the new way of handling livestock import and export at the Irish border. To avoid checks it will simply be fired across the border using a catapult.

 

[martinbo]

To avoid checks it will simply be fired across the border using a catapult.

Increased prevalence of swine flew?

 

[Matski]

Increased prevalence of swine flew?

Ladies and gentlemen, the perfect pun.

You always hog the best ones, I'm getting boar-ed of it.

 

[Sunny]

so simply speaking no we don't have enough energy NOW, nevermind after a 15-20% increase

Hogwash!!

In the hypothetical case where you replace all ICE vehicles with EVs (and provided miles driven stays the same), the net energy used/imported should go down cause you will need to import less fossil fuel to burn directly in ICE vehicles.

So yes, while you will need to generate more electrical energy, your total energy import should go down.

In fact, assuming simplistic case where everyone in UK was driving something as efficient as 320d - 68mpg (and I doubt that is the case) and we replaced it all with model 3s, your country's net energy consumption for transportation would go down roughly 50%.

 

[klier]

Don't worry, guys. Boris & Tories will bring us commercially viable fusion reactors by 2040.

ITER (a 65 billion costing project between several nations) might actually be operational by 2045........so you're quite close.

And Boris has indeed something to do with that as he is the PM of the UK, and the UK is a partner.

 

[EnI]

Commercially viable reactor, not an multibillion experimental reactor!

Boris was talking about fusion reactors for commercial use, in 2040. BS!

 

[klier]

Commercially viable reactor, not an multibillion experimental reactor!

Sure, but the aim of this project is not at all experimental, but in fact the exact opposite.

And in the meantime, just build f'ing regular reactors! They're close to perfect, despite what those left wing extremists want us to believe.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

Ladies and gentlemen, the perfect pun.

You always hog the best ones, I'm getting boar-ed of it.

Yeah-the climate debate as well as BREXIT scenarios have become so fragmented that it's all beginning to appear a bit "pigs and whistles".

 

[Sunny]

We drive 254 billion miles per year in cars (ignoring other ICE vehicles (buses, trucks etc.).
A Tesla Model III will uses about 255Wh/mile.
So if we all drove Model III's we'd use 64,770,000,000kWh (64.77 TWh) a year. We currently produce about 360TWh, so it'd be an increase of about 18%, in terms of electricity.
We cover a further 73 billion miles a year with commercial vehicles, so in practice, that 18% is going to be higher.

What you did not count (and I also didn't in my earlier reply) is how much electrical energy you would save by not having to refine fossil fuel if you replace all gas cars with EVs. It takes on average 6 kwh of energy to refine 1 gallon of gasoline. Avg fuel consumption in UK for new cars is 50mpg for gas cars and 60 mpg for diesel. Obviously, in real world not all existing cars are getting that figure , but even if you assume a generous 40mpg, you need about 6 billion gallons of oil to drive 254 billion miles. To refine 6 billion gallons of oil @ 6kwh, you need about 36 billion kwh. Which you would not anymore if you convert all those cars to Evs, so net electrical energy consumption would only go up by 65-36 = 29 TWh (8% increase). Of course, in addition, your oil imports would go down by 6 billion gallons too.

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[Matski]

What you did not count (and I also didn't in my earlier reply) is how much electrical energy you would save by not having to refine fossil fuel if you replace all gas cars with EVs. It takes on average 6 kwh of energy to refine 1 gallon of gasoline. Avg fuel consumption in UK for new cars is 50mpg for gas cars and 60 mpg for diesel. Obviously, in real worl...

It's a fair point, though I'm not sure it's as simple as that. We're still going to be refining oil to get other products we want. Until we reduce dependency on plastics and come up with alternatives to all other refined crude products, we're still going to be producing hydrocarbon fuels even if it's just as a byproduct. If you want a tonne of polyester you're still going to have to refine out the same lot of other petrochemicals, so the cost and energy impact of the refinement is still present, it just gets dumped somewhere else (commercially speaking). Reducing dependence on Oil based products is what it takes to cut out that energy required for refinement, not just petrol or diesel.

Also, the other obvious solution to reducing transport related energy use, is to stop relying on cars for the vast number of miles we cover that could be done by electric bike, for instance. E-bikes need to be subsidised, I honestly believe that would make more of a difference than simply trying to stimulate EV sales with subsidies.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

It's a fair point, though I'm not sure it's as simple as that. We're still going to be refining oil to get other products we want. Until we reduce dependency on plastics and come up with alternatives to all other refined crude products, we're still going to be producing hydrocarbon fuels even if it's just as a byproduct. If you want a tonne of polyes...

The problem is that urban transport needs to be weatherproof. I suppose very few people would use an E-bike in a cold winter day. In order to ban ICEs in the cities (which IMHO is a must) a reliable alternative should be provided.