Taycan [Official] Porsche Taycan

[klier]

klier as a person living in Europe you know about 40% of vehicle owners don’t have a secure off street parking space

More like 90% where I live, maybe more.

 

[Sunny]

hahah and you’ve proven like most Americans you’re completely ignorant of the world outside of America.

Guilty... had no idea laws of thermodynamics worked different outside of America!

Yeah havent visited a station for ages with the e golf.

GTFO! you must be an ignorant American too.

More like 90% where I live, maybe more.

That is not any different from metro areas here like SF. But here, people living in areas like that are just giving up on owning cars itself.

and a large potential market for FCEV’s.

Asked in another thread and didn't get an answer, so what year is this potential going to be realized?

 

[klier]

That is not any different from metro areas here like SF. But here, people living in areas like that are just giving up on owning cars itself.

I don't see that happening anytime soon over here, but we'll see. It's an interesting thought for sure.

 

[KiwiRob]

Guilty... had no idea laws of thermodynamics worked different outside of America!


GTFO! you must be an ignorant American too.


That is not any different from metro areas here like SF. But here, people living in areas like that are just giving up on owning cars itself.


Asked in another thread and didn't get an answer, so what year is this potential goi...

the money is being invested now, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans govts are investing tens of billions in hydrogen research.

None of these companies or countries are very interested in what Sunny from German Car Forum has to say, you’re nobody.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

I don't see that happening anytime soon over here, but we'll see. It's an interesting thought for sure.

That does seem to be an option (not owning an automobile) that an increasing number of young urbanites here in Germany are selecting. For those living in the more outer peripheries of cities or rural areas, automobiles remain indispensible-thanks to an increasingly inadequate public transportation infrastructure and ridiculously high fares.

 

[KiwiRob]

That does seem to be an option (not owning an automobile) that an increasing number of young urbanites here in Germany are selecting. For those living in the more outer peripheries of cities or rural areas, automobiles remain indispensible-thanks to an increasingly inadequate public transportation infrastructure and ridiculously high fares.

My wife and I lived without a car many years ago, that went out the window when we had our first child.

 

[Deleted member 1071]

My wife and I lived without a car many years ago, that went out the window when we had our first child.

My wife and I live in a semi-rural area on the southwestern periphery of greater Hamburg. We are absolutely dependent on our automobile. With Hamburgs' city center some 45 kms away (thanks to the river Elbe and the nearest crossing opportunities being either the Köhlbrandbrücke or the Elbtunnel) and the utterly piss-poor public transportation opportunities in our immediate area, we really have no other viable choice. Other large German cities have a better grasp of this particular issue. Berlin, Munich and Frankfurt/Main for example.

Fortunately, we're seeing an increasing number of charging stations popping up in our area. Our next car may very well be a VW I.D.3 or one of its' VAG MEB-platformed siblings.

 

[Sunny]

the money is being invested now, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans govts are investing tens of billions in hydrogen research.

None of these companies or countries are very interested in what Sunny from German Car Forum has to say, you’re nobody.

Well, better nobody than the retard who thinks it makes sense to trade a dime for a nickel!

But again, you are avoiding the answer - when do these billions in hydrogen "research" bear fruit? Can you give me a year when annual sales of hydrogen powered passenger cars will break a measly 100,000?

 

[klier]

I was at the Porsche dealer yesterday, and while there was no Taycan yet, it was just awefully depressing to see the showroom filled with these huge VAG boats. Panamera, Panamera Touring, Macan, Cayenne and Cayenne couple..... LMAO what a sorry bunch of cars. I wish they all didn't exist. I really do. It getting more and more like some alternate Audi dealership.

I also think half of BMW's line-up is trash, so take it easy my fellow 911 fans.

They however did have a 991.2 GT3 RS with 35 km on the odo. And they had a 991.2 GT3 Touring with chrome around the windows. And they had a 1.4 million 918 Spyder Weissach.

Also had many 992, but I can't seem to like that car yet. Stunning from some angles, but ungainly (IMO) and too huge from others. Not to mention the fugly LED strip in the back. Too much spaceship.

 

[LaArtist]

I was at the Porsche dealer yesterday, and while there was no Taycan yet, it was just awefully depressing to see the showroom filled with these huge VAG boats. Panamera, Panamera Touring, Macan, Cayenne and Cayenne couple..... LMAO what a sorry bunch of cars. I wish they all didn't exist. I really do. It getting more and more like some alternate Audi dealer...

Ur like a uppety bitch really hard to please lol

 

[SKY]

Well, better nobody than the retard who thinks it makes sense to trade a dime for a nickel!

But again, you are avoiding the answer - when do these billions in hydrogen "research" bear fruit? Can you give me a year when annual sales of hydrogen powered passenger cars will break a measly 100,000?

I believe the point is, no matter the hydrogen cars might even be the next big thing after EVs. ICE cars have their days numbered. @Centurion was talking about it in the W206 C-Class thread. The next wave of performance cars by M, AMG and Audi Sport are going to be hybrids. When the next decade nears its end, all German manufacturers will only talk about their M5s, S63s and what else becoming EVs. Maybe the M3 and M2 last a few years more with an ICE engine inside. Same for Ferrari and other exotic brands. But that's it.

EVs are coming to stay. If there is an even better tech after that, we can only guess.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I believe the point is, no matter the hydrogen cars might even be the next big thing after EVs. ICE cars have their days numbered. @Centurion was talking about it in the W206 C-Class thread. The next wave of performance cars by M, AMG and Audi Sport are going to be hybrids. When the next decade nears its end, all German manufacturers will o...

I believe that the demise of ICEVs will come just because EVs will beat them in almost every aspect. Why should an M car has an ICE when a proper EV will smash it dynamically?

 

[manuelf]

I believe that the demise of ICEVs will come just because EVs will beat them in almost every aspect. Why should an M car has an ICE when a proper EV will smashed it dynamically?

Sure. That is logical, isn't it? So what are the ingredients of a sporty car/sportscar like a Mercedes AMG, Audi RS and BMW ///M?
- longitudinal dynamics
- lateral dynamics
- sound
- design
- driver involvement/feedback/emotions

Obviously the last two bulletpoints are blurry/vague/very subjective.
So - looking at the first three items ... where has an ICE an advantage, which is hard to accomplish for a BEV? Sound. But if you follow - at least in the EU - recent legislative tendencies, the ICE become more and more muted every day! Particle filters and the ban of exhaust systems with controllable flaps are just the beginning. Don't even know if this is a strategy by EU, to lower attractivity of ICEs compared to BEV
So ... imho the sound of ICE in two generations is meh anyhow.
Longitudinal dynamics: BEVs are already in the lead - at least to speeds up to 150km/h. But I have no doubt, that they will be also on top in 100-250 (which for me as a german Autobahn user is important).
Lateral dynamics: BEV do struggle a bit with their comparably high weight but on the other side can counter this with very effective/low latency 4WD torque vectoring. And the weight penalty is to some degree compensated with low COG.
Bottom line: With energy density of batteries getting better and better (which should be the case taken into account the amount of money thrown at it now) and the immense restrictions put on ICE nowadays (sound and emissions), the takeover will happen soon.

 

[Matski]

Wait.. When did every ICE car sold become an M, RS, AMG etc..? The 'takeover' will happen when the high volume segments have viable EV options, which you could argue they already do... So why are they still only a small percentage of new cars sold? Its not to do with sound or dynamics.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Wait.. When did every ICE car sold become an M, RS, AMG etc..? The 'takeover' will happen when the high volume segments have viable EV options, which you could argue they already do... So why are they still only a small percentage of new cars sold? Its not to do with sound or dynamics.

Very simple. No body in the automotive industry has interest to do it.

 

[Matski]

Very simple. No body in the automotive industry has interest to do it.

24 models for sale in the UK covering all shapes and sizes. The consumer is still choosing ICE powered cars over EVs... Why is that?

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

24 models for sale in the UK covering all shapes and sizes. The consumer is still choosing ICE powered cars over EVs... Why is that?

Because the products are not good enough (with the exception of Model 3)
Edit: When you don't have interest to do it you just release products that are not good enough and then shift the responsibility to the customers

 

[Deleted member 1071]

With Europes' largest mass-volume manufacturer firmly committed to electric mobility (and putting their money where their mouth is in terms of product development with currently 3 BEV platforms-4 if you count the eTron Quattros' modified-to-electric MLB-based underpinnings-ready for prompt volume production), I anticipate a relatively rapid proliferation of BEVs' here in Europe within the course of the coming 2-4 years. Other European manufacturers will quickly follow suit-or, at best, enter expansive collaborations, be swallowed-or worst case, demise. And with more recent signs that slovenly government officials are finally beginning to smell the coffee, we can be at least hopeful that the required infrastructural transition will be addressed and implemented in a relatively timely manner.

 

[manuelf]

Because the products are not good enough (with the exception of Model 3)
Edit: When you don't have interest to do it you just release products that are not good enough and then shift the responsibility to the customers

Ok. Normally I do agree with most things you say ... not here.
I don't buy it, that the OEMs are throwing billions of euros at development of BEV platforms and battery partnerships and all that, but they want it to fail ... they already know, that there are competitors (not just Tesla ... but chinese companies) waiting for them to fail.
And even the holy grail Tesla Model 3 is not that successful ... outside of USA and Norway ...
For me here in Germany it is quite simple: For mass market infrastructure is not there. Also prices are still too high! 50k € for a Model 3, where you can e.g. get a Skoda Octavia RS for 20k less with the same or better quality ... for most people that makes no sense.
I think, the take over will happen, when infrastructure is there on a broad basis and prices drop to a comparable level of ICEs of today.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

Ok. Normally I do agree with most things you say ... not here.
I don't buy it, that the OEMs are throwing billions of euros at development of BEV platforms and battery partnerships and all that, but they want it to fail ... they already know, that there are competitors (not just Tesla ... but chinese companies) waiting for them to fail.
And even the ho...

The invested billions are pure lie. How can the invested money for a suspension be devided between an EV or ICEV? Most of these amounts go for normal R&D but they book them on the EV account only to shut the mouths of the ecologically concerned people. Just take a look how much money invested Tesla in order to see what is necessary. The shift to EVs is a total catastrophy for the cars manufacturers. They have to dismiss a big part of their current engineers and replace them with programmers, they'll have to write nice farewell letters to suppliers like Getrag, ZF and ect. They will resist this as long as possible.