S-Class (W222/C217/A217) [Official] Mercedes-Maybach S600 (X222)

[Gianclaudio]

Very good, solids points, but there are low profile millonaires who don't want to be seen on something as eyecatching as a Rolls or Bentley, for the right or wrong reasons (think security, on kidnapping friendly places) so the rather lower profile MB Maybach may fill their bill perfectly.
What I hate, is the fact they made a trim out of a past and notable brand, which is just ridiculous. This top of the line S class could be properly called the 600, which itself is a recongnized designation within Mercedes S classes.

 

[SDNR]

P

?..... there are low profile millonaires who don't want to be seen on something as eyecatching as a Rolls or Bentley, for the right or wrong reasons (think security, on kidnapping friendly places) so the rather lower profile MB Maybach may fill their bill perfectly.

I think you are very correct, which also reinforces Hassan's point that the S class Maybach is a perfect executive "taxi" for business people. As I have said before, there are certain situations where a Rolls-Royce might just seem over-indulgent.

.....but is the extra leg room really so prestigious? .......obviously not, so the prestige is almost entirely a matter of perception. I still think the S65 will be regarded by most Benz fans as the "ultimate" S class.

And who, as a private individual, will buy the Pullman in this day and age? .......is there really much demand for formal 7 seat limousines beyond hotels and wedding hire companies?

 

[Gianclaudio]

.....but is the extra leg room really so prestigious? .......obviously not, so the prestige is almost entirely a matter of perception. I still think the S65 will be regarded by most Benz fans as the "ultimate" S class.

For the chinese market I guess? It seems, longer= more prestigious, and the taxes must be supremely high for the S65, over there.

And who, as a private individual, will buy the Pullman in this day and age? .......is there really much demand for formal 7 seat limousines beyond hotels and wedding hire companies?

I guess nobody outside of presidential/official limos, besides the wedding hire you mentioned before.

 

[Sovereign]

The only two things working for RR and Bentley over the S class is the exclusivity factor and hand stitching /building factor. The S to my understanding is superior in technology, power (S65), features. The existence of S65 indicates that Mercedes (S) can play in the RR/Bentley territory with a model that is far less exclusive and that is designed and built for the masses (relatively). Maybach at least add the exclusivity to improve on one of the boutique brands' factors.

 

[SDNR]

The only two things working for RR and Bentley over the S class is the exclusivity factor and hand stitching /building factor. The S to my understanding is superior in technology, power (S65), features. The existence of S65 indicates that Mercedes (S) can play in the RR/Bentley territory with a model that is far less exclusive and that is designed and built for the masses (relatively). Maybach at least add the exclusivity to improve on one of the boutique brands' factors.

You are technically correct.


I do think the Bentley Mulsanne is the most special of the high-luxury vehicles. The Phantom may be bigger and more expensive but for pure sensory enjoyment, the Mulsanne is unsurpassed imo.

Sure, the S65 may have more technical wizardry.......but Bentley have never claimed to rival Mercedes in that department. Bentley is a niche brand and the Mulsanne is a niche product within that brand.

Don't assume the Mulsanne is antiquated though, it is also laden with state-of-art technology ....but the Mulsanne is so much more than that. The difference is not something that can be measured.

The S class is first and foremost an industrial product .....and up until relatively recently Mercedes prided themselves on this. Afterall, Mercedes-Benz is a child of Modern German industry and the political and social circumstances that saw Germany transform itself from an agricultural to an industrial society in the 20th century.

Now it seems Mercedes wants to convince us that the S Class is somewhat bespoke or handmade.

Technical innovation and industry was at the forefront of German culture After WW2. Whereas, in the UK, there appears to have been a kind of post-war sentimental attachment to a mythical tradition of "Britishness" ......I believe this is why Rolls-Royce and Bentley became increasingly obsessive about "tradition" and were certainly not above using snobbery and class-affiliations to sell their cars .......it worked particularly well in the USA.

It is a shame that perceptions of prestige and snobbery have overshadowed the great talents of the gentlemen who founded the companies (Rolls-Royce and Bentley) for they were outstanding engineers and pioneers of the automotive industry.

I don't want Mercedes to lose its connection with its heritage of industrialism .....to hell with "handmade", I don't care if an S class is entirely made by robots. Mercedes is a different product to Bentley .....Mercedes should embrace their own heritage and not try to imitate Bentley's.

 

[Sunny]

I would ask all the people who are so negative about this model being named Maybach: How does it in any way hurt either Mercedes or Maybach?

Missed that pinata... can I have a go? pretty please?

Let us say we were in an alternative universe where Maybach was successful and RR and/or Bentley were done and in response BMW came out with a RR that was an XL 7er with some extra quilted leather. Or VW came out with a Bentley that was a A8 XL and a massage chair and a big ass badge glued to the C pillar? Will we be celebrating those cars? Yea, I didn't think so.

Most of this thread is people deluding themselves that this is some master move from Mercedes. They just made what was their answer to RR and Bentley a trim option you can order with a V6, yes a freaking V6! So let us call it what it really is - at best, a cynical move to sell a bunch of it, especially in China. At worst, a big white flag to RR and Bentley. Either way, it is an 18' tombstone on the fresh Maybach grave from under which it will probably never rise to compete with a Phantom or Mulsanne for a long while.

And people please stop with silly AMG comparison, AMG was an engineering concern before Mercedes and continues to be. They have a team, engineers and a factory dedicated to progressing AMG. Maybach has a dedicated badge. We here love to rip on VAG for badge engineering, but even VAG doesn't take badge engineering this literally.

This is not a decision that has been made lightly, so let's just wait and see where it leads.

Probably a Maybach SUV and XL E class and people here still deluding themselves how that is an awesome move too.

 

[SDNR]

Missed that pinata... can I have a go? pretty please?

Let us say we were in an alternative universe where Maybach was successful and RR and/or Bentley were done and in response BMW came out with a RR that was an XL 7er with some extra quilted leather. Or VW came out with a Bentley that was a A8 XL and a massage chair and a big ass badge glued to the C pillar? Will we be celebrating those cars? Yea, I didn't think so.

Most of this thread is people deluding themselves that this is some master move from Mercedes. They just made what was their answer to RR and Bentley a trim option you can order with a V6, yes a freaking V6! So let us call it what it really is - at best, a cynical move to sell a bunch of it, especially in China. At worst, a big white flag to RR and Bentley. Either way, it is an 18' tombstone on the fresh Maybach grave from under which it will probably never rise to compete with a Phantom or Mulsanne for a long while.

And people please stop with silly AMG comparison, AMG was an engineering concern before Mercedes and continues to be. They have a team, engineers and a factory dedicated to progressing AMG. Maybach has a dedicated badge. We here love to rip on VAG for badge engineering, but even VAG doesn't take badge engineering this literally.



Probably a Maybach SUV and XL E class and people here still deluding themselves how that is an awesome move too.

Entertaining post there Sunny.

Few were bigger critics of the Maybach 57/62 than I was. ......I had a serious love/hate thing going.

You are 100% correct ......this Maybach-badged S Class is aimed squarely at the Chinese market.

Cynical? ........well maybe pragmatic would be a better word

The Maybach brand may be superficial .....but it will make money for Daimler - and that is ultimately what this is all about.

 

[Wolfgang]

Hadn't seen this vid posted?

2016 Mercedes-Maybach S 600 World Premiere - Los Angeles -- YouCar

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[Wolfgang]

The dimensions compared. The Mercedes-Maybach (X222) is 5.453 m long with front and rear overhangs of 888 and 1200 mm, while the LWB S-Class (V222) reaches to 5.287 m with 896 and 1226 mm long overhangs. Finally the SWB S-Class (W222) is 5.116 m with 888 and 1193 mm overhangs. The wheelbase ranges from 3.365 m (X222) to 3.165 m (V222) and to 3.035 m (W222). The Maybach comes with the most spacious rear, offering a legroom of 1015 mm, compared with 867 mm for the V222 and 737 mm for the W222 models. Lateron the longer Pullman version (VV222) follows, to be built at Brabus.

The Maybach is intended for customers who primarily use it with chauffeur. Daimler expects the majority of customers from China, Russia and the United States. The model is positioned above the previous S-Class segment, but still below ultra-luxury vehicles, for example, the Rolls Royce Ghost or the Bentley Continental Flying Spur.

Source: MB Passion

 

[Wolfgang]

2016 Mercedes-Maybach S-Class INTERIOR -- YouCar

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[ryana]

P


I think you are very correct, which also reinforces Hassan's point that the S class Maybach is a perfect executive "taxi" for business people. As I have said before, there are certain situations where a Rolls-Royce might just seem over-indulgent.

.....but is the extra leg room really so prestigious? .......obviously not, so the prestige is almost entirely a matter of perception. I still think the S65 will be regarded by most Benz fans as the "ultimate" S class.

And who, as a private individual, will buy the Pullman in this day and age? .......is there really much demand for formal 7 seat limousines beyond hotels and wedding hire companies?

Hello. Loooong time lurker, first time poster.

Missed that pinata... can I have a go? pretty please?

Let us say we were in an alternative universe where Maybach was successful and RR and/or Bentley were done and in response BMW came out with a RR that was an XL 7er with some extra quilted leather. Or VW came out with a Bentley that was a A8 XL and a massage chair and a big ass badge glued to the C pillar? Will we be celebrating those cars? Yea, I didn't think so.

Most of this thread is people deluding themselves that this is some master move from Mercedes. They just made what was their answer to RR and Bentley a trim option you can order with a V6, yes a freaking V6! So let us call it what it really is - at best, a cynical move to sell a bunch of it, especially in China. At worst, a big white flag to RR and Bentley. Either way, it is an 18' tombstone on the fresh Maybach grave from under which it will probably never rise to compete with a Phantom or Mulsanne for a long while.

And people please stop with silly AMG comparison, AMG was an engineering concern before Mercedes and continues to be. They have a team, engineers and a factory dedicated to progressing AMG. Maybach has a dedicated badge. We here love to rip on VAG for badge engineering, but even VAG doesn't take badge engineering this literally.



Probably a Maybach SUV and XL E class and people here still deluding themselves how that is an awesome move too.

Hello. Looong-time lurker first time poster. Normally, I'd be content on reading the insights on this forum, but this one, I felt I really need to reply in disagreement.

Regarding the alternate proposition of if BMW or VW were to do the same thing roughly with Rolls and Bentley respectively, I think this is a flawed. Because we know that BMW would never make a BMW-Rolls-Royce 760Li or VW with an Audi-Bentley A8 w12. They would rather reskin a 7 for the Ghost and the Phaeton for the Continental/Flying Spur. And this was an easy decision; the brands they have (Rolls and Bentley) have too much cachet to be tied to the brands "BMW" and "Audi", whereas Maybach doesn't. Up until they revived it, very few people knew what Maybach was, whereas Rolls and Bentley were steadily selling vehicles and were renowned right up to when BMW and VW bought them up. Couple this lack of all-smothering prestige with its rather lackluster appearance, and we all know what became of Maybach Manufaktur a few years after its revival. I don't think we should be celebrating the return of the Maybach as we'd hoped it to be with successors to the now defunct 57 and 62 because that would be another gamble for Mercedes that they could lose again. But rather, respect Mercedes for realizing that maybe taking Bentley and Rolls head on with a relatively unknown sub-brand was not a smart move, and instead gradually reintroduce this sub-brand by attaching it to their most prestigious sedan.

And Mercedes-Maybach isn't necessarily Daimler's answer to Rolls and Bentley. Maybe in top of the line V12 guise, one could cross-shop it with a Ghost or a Flying Spur, but the same applies for a non-Maybach trimmed S600. Take it for what it is: another version of the S-class that isn't trying to be anything else but that. To complain about its existence is to complain about the purpose of the AMG S-classes. Instead of giving you more performance and sport in Mercedes-AMG guise, you get more rear legroom in Mercedes-Maybach guise. It's not a whole new car aimed at the most expensive sedans out there. It's a longer S-class that is being marketed as such, and is priced accordingly. And in that regard, having a V6 for it is no more wrong than having a regular S400. Is it a white flag to RR and Bentley? If you want, sure, let's call it that. How else would you expect them to react after the failure of their first attempt? Try again right after and risk another failure and face even more cynicism than they are now? Or just bury the Maybach name completely? Or instead, rebuild the Maybach brand and if enough people buy it, its brand will be recognized, and maybe one day they'll retry a stand alone model with it. Mercedes took a bad outcome from their first attempt and salvaged it with a cautious approach. And if it works, I wouldn't be surprised if BMW and Audi each offer an extra-long wheelbase version of their flagships as well.

And finally: "And people please stop with silly AMG comparison, AMG was an engineering concern before Mercedes and continues to be. They have a team, engineers and a factory dedicated to progressing AMG. Maybach has a dedicated badge." I could easily rewrite that to:

"And people please stop with silly RR/Bentley comparison, RR/Bentley were engineering concerns before BMW and VW and continue to be. They have teams, engineers and factories dedicated to progressing RR/Bentley. Maybach has a dedicated badge."

If you will disallow the validity of comparing it to AMG, I can say the same about comparing it to RR/Bentley. Because that is what Maybach is now, a badge for a longer S-class. Accept it and stop trying to make it something for RR and Bentley to worry about. That's the past.

So bring on the Mercedes-Maybach SUV, so people can one day hopelessly debate its existence against the upcoming RR and Bentley SUVs....

 

[hannaz]

The dimensions compared. The Mercedes-Maybach (X222) is 5.453 m long with front and rear overhangs of 888 and 1200 mm, while the LWB S-Class (V222) reaches to 5.287 m with 896 and 1226 mm long overhangs. Finally the SWB S-Class (W222) is 5.116 m with 888 and 1193 mm overhangs. The wheelbase ranges from 3.365 m (X222) to 3.165 m (V222) and to 3.035 m (W222). The Maybach comes with the most spacious rear, offering a legroom of 1015 mm, compared with 867 mm for the V222 and 737 mm for the W222 models. Lateron the longer Pullman version (VV222) follows, to be built at Brabus.

The Maybach is intended for customers who primarily use it with chauffeur. Daimler expects the majority of customers from China, Russia and the United States. The model is positioned above the previous S-Class segment, but still below ultra-luxury vehicles, for example, the Rolls Royce Ghost or the Bentley Continental Flying Spur.

Source: MB Passion

Wolfgang; isn't the V222 in the drawing AMG kitted car, rather S65? So the difference in overhangs is due to the additional AMG body kit. Other wise both the X222 and V222 (S600) would be the same, am I right?

Better/bigger photos of the same diagram.

 

[Wolfgang]

Yes, hannaz, the V222 dimensions above were for the largest version, the S 65. To compare, the normal V222 measures 5.246 m in length, with 888 mm front and 1193 mm rear overhangs, and also a wheelbase of 3.165 m.

 

[Rainer271]

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[Sunny]

Hello. Looong-time lurker first time poster. Normally, I'd be content on reading the insights on this forum, but this one, I felt I really need to reply in disagreement.

Welcome and thanks for the considered post. But having read it, I am not sure we are really in as much disagreement as you think.

...the brands they have (Rolls and Bentley) have too much cachet to be tied to the brands "BMW" and "Audi", whereas Maybach doesn't.

I wholeheartedly agree. My argument was from the perspective that Mercedes fans would want Maybach to have the same level of cachet as Rolls or Bentley and compete with those brands or at least to try.

Because that is what Maybach is now, a badge for a longer S-class. Accept it and stop trying to make it something for RR and Bentley to worry about. That's the past.

Again my post was from the perspective that Mercedes fans would want Maybach to be something more than a, and I quote,a badge for a longer S-class.

If everyone is merry about Maybach being just "a badge for a longer S-class", of course Mercedes got it right and there is really no argument from me.

 

[Sovereign]

I don't want Mercedes to lose its connection with its heritage of industrialism .....to hell with "handmade", I don't care if an S class is entirely made by robots. Mercedes is a different product to Bentley .....Mercedes should embrace their own heritage and not try to imitate Bentley's.

Well said.

But if handmade is a valued factor at the upper echelon of the automotive world than Mercedes and its S (W221 and W222) is the only "mass" production car that offers the interior environment, that is styling and the layout, that can rival the hand made interiors of boutique brands 3 times its price. Yes the Audi interior is a comfortable place with very high quality material but it does not offer the same feeling IMO. Mercedes changed its philosophy of building cars a number of times with the changing environment, something RR and Bentley did not do before the Germans jumped in. It was all form follows function and simplicity until W140, then it became the gadget laden machines with a button doing this and a sensor doing that. Bentley and RR became out of date by this time until BMW and VW overhauled these brands with modern technology while retaining the hand-built factor because it is demanded by the customer. IMO Mercedes is playing extremely well by combining the two.......that is keeping the upper hand on technology and a much lower price point to the boutique brands while offering their type of interior environment and the grand exterior styling.....value at its best and that is the S forte. Results are in for the 1st year of W222.... SUPERIOR RETURNS.

 

[hannaz]

Don't know who created this, but its interesting. But in this 3D diagram, the monogram is MM instead of Three Point Star

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[SDNR]

Don't know who created this, but its interesting. But in this 3D diagram, the monogram is MM instead of Three Point Star

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I bet they will make this an option.

 

[SDNR]

Hello. Loooong time lurker, first time poster.



Hello. Looong-time lurker first time poster. Normally, I'd be content on reading the insights on this forum, but this one, I felt I really need to reply in disagreement.

Regarding the alternate proposition of if BMW or VW were to do the same thing roughly with Rolls and Bentley respectively, I think this is a flawed. Because we know that BMW would never make a BMW-Rolls-Royce 760Li or VW with an Audi-Bentley A8 w12. They would rather reskin a 7 for the Ghost and the Phaeton for the Continental/Flying Spur. And this was an easy decision; the brands they have (Rolls and Bentley) have too much cachet to be tied to the brands "BMW" and "Audi", whereas Maybach doesn't. Up until they revived it, very few people knew what Maybach was, whereas Rolls and Bentley were steadily selling vehicles and were renowned right up to when BMW and VW bought them up. Couple this lack of all-smothering prestige with its rather lackluster appearance, and we all know what became of Maybach Manufaktur a few years after its revival. I don't think we should be celebrating the return of the Maybach as we'd hoped it to be with successors to the now defunct 57 and 62 because that would be another gamble for Mercedes that they could lose again. But rather, respect Mercedes for realizing that maybe taking Bentley and Rolls head on with a relatively unknown sub-brand was not a smart move, and instead gradually reintroduce this sub-brand by attaching it to their most prestigious sedan.
,
And Mercedes-Maybach isn't necessarily Daimler's answer to Rolls and Bentley. Maybe in top of the line V12 guise, one could cross-shop it with a Ghost or a Flying Spur, but the same applies for a non-Maybach trimmed S600. Take it for what it is: another version of the S-class that isn't trying to be anything else but that. To complain about its existence is to complain about the purpose of the AMG S-classes. Instead of giving you more performance and sport in Mercedes-AMG guise, you get more rear legroom in Mercedes-Maybach guise. It's not a whole new car aimed at the most expensive sedans out there. It's a longer S-class that is being marketed as such, and is priced accordingly. And in that regard, having a V6 for it is no more wrong than having a regular S400. Is it a white flag to RR and Bentley? If you want, sure, let's call it that. How else would you expect them to react after the failure of their first attempt? Try again right after and risk another failure and face even more cynicism than they are now? Or just bury the Maybach name completely? Or instead, rebuild the Maybach brand and if enough people buy it, its brand will be recognized, and maybe one day they'll retry a stand alone model with it. Mercedes took a bad outcome from their first attempt and salvaged it with a cautious approach. And if it works, I wouldn't be surprised if BMW and Audi each offer an extra-long wheelbase version of their flagships as well.

And finally: "And people please stop with silly AMG comparison, AMG was an engineering concern before Mercedes and continues to be. They have a team, engineers and a factory dedicated to progressing AMG. Maybach has a dedicated badge." I could easily rewrite that to:

"And people please stop with silly RR/Bentley comparison, RR/Bentley were engineering concerns before BMW and VW and continue to be. They have teams, engineers and factories dedicated to progressing RR/Bentley. Maybach has a dedicated badge."

If you will disallow the validity of comparing it to AMG, I can say the same about comparing it to RR/Bentley. Because that is what Maybach is now, a badge for a longer S-class. Accept it and stop trying to make it something for RR and Bentley to worry about. That's the past.

So bring on the Mercedes-Maybach SUV, so people can one day hopelessly debate its existence against the upcoming RR and Bentley SUVs....

Couldn't have put it better. I agree entirely.

There does appear to be a little bit of "Benz-bashing" going on here. Although I do take Sunny's point - sometimes the Mercedes fans can appear to be mindless cheerleaders. .......but I must say I was irritated at the insinuation that I thought it was "a master move" to use the Maybach moniker. I have never said I thought it was genius .........but I do understand why they have chosen to do this.

 

[PINHEAD]

Some little details would make it much more unique: Maybach style grille, Maybach sign instead of the Three Point Star on the hood and on the wheels, on the steering wheel . . .