EQS [Official] Mercedes-Benz EQS

[klugscheisser87]

You do realize this announcement is only for the largest version of MB.EA right? The standard size MB.EA, MMA, VAN.EA, and AMG.EA platforms are still moving forward. 800v architecture will be here next year on both EVA2 and MMA platform vehicles. And even with the EVA2 platform, they will still be upgrading the batteries and motors in the future beyond next year's refresh. The reports have even said the motors and batteries that were supposed to get launched on the new platform will be placed into the modified EVA2 platform.



I agree. I imagine some heavy investment will go into modernizing EVA2. My biggest concern is the weight.

I guess we all realize how late the German tech is coming compared even with lower segements like KIA and Hyundai and damn, even GM.
The hype the Korean get is the best example how important is the timing and the ability to take fast decisions despite changing conditions.

Cancelling the large platform isn’t my issue, but the fact of the desperate step back and milking the ICE tech until the last possible date in pair with populist politicians pushing the stinker industry for efortless business recipe.

 

[Serpens]

I guess we all realize how late the German tech is coming compared even with lower segements like KIA and Hyundai and damn, even GM.
The hype the Korean get is the best example how important is the timing and the ability to take fast decisions despite changing conditions.

Cancelling the large platform isn’t my issue, but the fact of the desperate step back and milking the ICE tech until the last possible date in pair with populist politicians pushing the stinker industry for efortless business recipe.

They're in a business to make money though. Why would you abandon customers that will clearly buy your ICE vehicles? If Mercedes continued their original EV path all that would happen is that their competitors would fill in the gap.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

There is no way back. Synthetic fuel is nearly dead (also butthurt in Germany) so is hydrogen for commercial use.
The transition can take a little bit longer or not, but we are already in the middle of the process.
Now we are facing the slow-down mainly due to inicitives cuts, but IMO this will retake its faster growth in the second half of this decade as many automakers are in the hard and fast development process of EV tech. to make the end product more affordable.

Germans are desperately playing on outdated technology and retaking efforts on ICE‘s, so repeating the same error while ignoring the growth of US and China in this market in the last decade, where now it’s impossible to overhaul.

I wish Mercedes luck making their stinkers until the end (2040) sucking until the last € of it.
Meanwhile other new-comers and already now strong positioned EV makers will have their generations of platforms and gained image in EV world while we don’t even have a BMW or Mercedes with 800/48V tech in 2024!
What they do now is a future suicide IMO and no lesson learned from mid 2010.
No one will wait them.
New young generations want gimmicks Teslas and cyber tech.
Millenials already don’t even know/care what is AMG nor M, but Plaid, Cybertruck and Apple toys. so imagine in 10 years where next young gen. will get their first loan.

If this will end up for Mercedes and Co. as the flop they are facing right now, there they deserved it.

I don't think things are as doom and gloom as you make out at all.
The "Strongly positioned" new EV makers struggle with volume and distribution. Even now Tesla doesn't sell that many cars. Where's Lucid outside of the US? The Chinese car companies have basically made vaporware - wake me up when you can actually buy one of them and see them on the roads in numbers.

 

[kiki voinea]

The Chinese car companies have basically made vaporware - wake me up when you can actually buy one of them and see them on the roads in numbers.

That is only because legislation keeps blocking them. Go to China. They are everywhere. Major cities (at least) are flooded with chinese EVs.

Just see the most recent US 100% tax on chinese EVs.

The best mid sized good-priced chinese EV right now won't even come to the US ( SU7 ), due to Xiaomi being banned in the US.

After the 100% tax , I bet EU will also impose some sort of tax or new legislation to keep them there...

Xiaomi SU7 , for example , it's the best car in it's class and price range. Even if the early reviews are mostly paid , given the track record of Xiaomi delivering pretty solid products , I doubt the car will be bad.

I would bet SU7 will not come to EU , and if it will , it will have a bad price here.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

That is only because legislation keeps blocking them. Go to China. They are everywhere. Major cities (at least) are flooded with chinese EVs.

Just see the most recent US 100% tax on chinese EVs.

The best mid sized good-priced chinese EV right now won't even come to the US ( SU7 ), due to Xiaomi being banned in the US.

After the 100% tax , I bet EU will also impose some sort of tax or new legislation to keep them there...

Xiaomi SU7 , for example , it's the best car in it's class and price range. Even if the early reviews are mostly paid , given the track record of Xiaomi delivering pretty solid products , I doubt the car will be bad.

I would bet SU7 will not come to EU , and if it will , it will have a bad price here.

Yeah, those taxes are called countervailing duties.

These exist because China is heavily subsidising the cost of these vehicles which would in theory allow Chinese companies to dump their vehicles in western markets below their cost of manufacture. Normal car companies, Germans, Japanese, Koreans, French, British etc would not be able to compete with those low prices, because they have to be able to turn a profit, or at least break even.

 

[klugscheisser87]

I don't think things are as doom and gloom as you make out at all.
The "Strongly positioned" new EV makers struggle with volume and distribution. Even now Tesla doesn't sell that many cars. Where's Lucid outside of the US? The Chinese car companies have basically made vaporware - wake me up when you can actually buy one of them and see them on the roads in numbers.

Tesla and BYD are selling 2 million units each, which it’s nearly double annual growth.
The Model 3/Y are the best selling cars globally where the top should be the BMW 3 Series at least in the lower premium segment, but this era is gone and now Germans have to fight to keep their position for the next decade.

Looking at their BEV sales and chaotic decisions I doubt in their strategy.
The 300k they sell each is what they’ve got for bad strategy and ignorance for years.
Maybe I’m wrong and they will revamp it somehow in lower segments, but that’s what it is now.

Only for pushing the ICE to its limits and making constant pressure on the politicians at the same time greenwashing our heads it’s a no-go for me to buy a new Merc or BMW. Looking at the circus/panic happening in DE these months I feel disgust by the image they want to sell vs. the opposite acting.

 

[kiki voinea]

Yeah, those taxes are called countervailing duties.

These exist because China is heavily subsidising the cost of these vehicles which would in theory allow Chinese companies to dump their vehicles in western markets below their cost of manufacture. Normal car companies, Germans, Japanese, Koreans, French, British etc would not be able to compete with those low prices, because they have to be able to turn a profit, or at least break even.

Do you really believe that story?

Come on man....Look at the numbers !

ALL countries do subsidize EVs ! ALL !

Only in 2023 , 1.2milions EVs were sold in the US. That is 9 billion USD just in 2023 ! (correct me if I am wrong )

Mass media makes it look bad , because it favors the paying costumers...Sorry , "have their back covered".

There are 500EV manufacturers in China. Their plan of supporting EV growing has worked. All that subsidies have went to all of them. How many of those EV manufacturers went to EU or US? Can count them on the fingers of your hand.

I repeat : ALL countries give subsidies ! More or less.

China just went all in into the EV market. As opposed to EU or US.

Why? Because legacy manufacturers make s**t tons of money out of ICE cars.

Maintenance , parts , engine oil change , filters , transmition oil change , filters , timing belts , blablabla.

MONEY. None of that are present in a EV.

I am already in the 3rd year of EV and I still haven't visited any service center , with any of my 2 EVs

On the other hand , I have 2 visits with the Touareg. And on the next visit I have to do a transmission service. More money.

Again , the issue that "chinese cars are cheap just because they are subsidized" is wrong ! And if you don't believe me , AGAIN , for more than 10 times now , LOOK AT THE ANUAL FISCAL REPORTS for ANY German manufacturer. And wonder....(and compare it to japanese or korean car manufacturers income and revenue)

"Tight cost control" ... LMFAO

 

[Mick Briesgau]

I guess we all realize how late the German tech is coming compared even with lower segements like KIA and Hyundai and damn, even GM.
The hype the Korean get is the best example how important is the timing and the ability to take fast decisions despite changing conditions.

Cancelling the large platform isn’t my issue, but the fact of the desperate step back and milking the ICE tech until the last possible date in pair with populist politicians pushing the stinker industry for efortless business recipe.

Populist politicians. You do know what populus means?
I know it’s difficult, but please, let us keep this thread clean from politics.

 

[Design FIRST]

I looked at a metallic black EQS sedan parked at a local grocery center carpark yesterday. The EQS is not that common of a sight after all. And ya know, I do not find it "ugly" at all. Certainly a bit "weird"-but not necessarily in a genuinely negative way. And somehow, it also does not look THAT large as well.

 

[Matski]

I don't think things are as doom and gloom as you make out at all.

There's been doom posting on the topic for many years. We're now almost 4 years past when ICE and PHEV sales should have 'fallen off a cliff'... we're, at most, 18 months from the collapse of BMW, we're a couple of years past the point where I was chastised for not believing EV's could be 50% of major global market sales... it will go on, I'm sure.

Only for pushing the ICE to its limits and making constant pressure on the politicians at the same time greenwashing our heads it’s a no-go for me to buy a new Merc or BMW. Looking at the circus/panic happening in DE these months I feel disgust by the image they want to sell vs. the opposite acting.

Do you ever even stop to consider that there are some people (currently about 85% of the market), that don't actually want to buy an EV?

 

[klugscheisser87]

Populist politicians. You do know what populus means?
I know it’s difficult, but please, let us keep this thread clean from politics.

Knowing what is going on on the right side of politics in germany and their petrol lobbys I think every1 can imagine what I mean without trashung the topic too much with German economy crisis.

The politics is the strongest pilar in Germany that still pushes stinker tech.

Spiegel did post a very interesting and quite balanced article about the current situation in the EV transition for their car makers. I recomend it as an informative lecture.

Electric Shock: An Existential Crisis in the German Auto Industry

Electric cars are selling poorly, and many German manufacturers are still focusing on the combustion engine. The threat from cheaper Chinese competitors is growing. Might this be the death knell of Germany's fabled automobile industry?

www.spiegel.de

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Do you ever even stop to consider that there are some people (currently about 85% of the market), that doesn't actually want to buy an EV?

Hear, hear…

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Knowing what is going on on the right side of politics in germany and their petrol lobbys I think every1 can imagine what I mean without trashung the topic too much with German economy crisis.

The politics is the strongest pilar in Germany that still pushes stinker tech.

Spiegel did post a very interesting and quite balanced article about the current situation in the EV transition for their car makers. I recomend it as an informative lecture.

Electric Shock: An Existential Crisis in the German Auto Industry

Electric cars are selling poorly, and many German manufacturers are still focusing on the combustion engine. The threat from cheaper Chinese competitors is growing. Might this be the death knell of Germany's fabled automobile industry?

www.spiegel.de

Politics in Germany has been green-left for 1,5 decade now. There are hardly any real right wing politicians left in that country. All the mess that’s going on over there, is caused by left wing parties like SPD, Bündnis 90/die Grünen and the greenwashed CDU.
A well meant suggestion: don’t read only die Spiegel. The quality of that magazine, if it ever had any, has been deteriorating for quite a while now. Claas Relotius ring a bell? Besides, it’s always been a left wing magazine, very SPD-near.
Care to chime in @Design FIRST?

 

[Design FIRST]

Hear, hear…

I suppose that embracing change can be a rather daunting process for many. And the extrapolation of the curve of skepticism and anxiety towards change can be the hamfisted promotion by policy makers, fervent, uncompromising ideologists from many sides of the spectrum and their supporters, and a myopic "make a quick buck" industry itself, etc... This all leaves many a consumer anxious, frustrated, angry and in some cases even spiteful. My take is that we will inevitably see BEVs gaining an increasingly stable foothold. It will just take a good deal longer than many proponents intitially anticipated.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Avoiding the political issue @Design FIRST Very smart. I got tempted and couldn’t resist.

@klugscheisser87 let’s leave it here with politics, shall we? Feel free to PM me, if you want to discuss it further.

 

[Matski]

To imply a conclusion to the political matter without even getting in to policy, or the parties behind it...

... if the demand is there it doesn't matter if politicians don't act.

 

[Design FIRST]

Avoiding the political issue @Design FIRST Very smart. I got tempted and couldn’t resist.

Thank you, Mick. Treacherous terrain that I will refrain from attempting to navigate. I respect that this is a CAR forum. I respect that politics simply bore a good many people to tears and perhaps especially pertaining to those who are members of a CAR forum. I realize that my sentiments regarding politics are of little if any interest or significance on platforms such as this. They have no business being presented here, I have no business presenting them. I'll go to an appropriate venue to present them should I get the urge to do so.

 

[AndreB]

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7HyIy4t_4U/

Why Mercedes’ $100,000 Electric Jellybean Flopped

The German automaker’s limousine customers care as much about comfort and status as saving the planet. Now they should worry about residual values too.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

He hits many of the points. But like most every journalist, and Mercedes head honchoes themsleves, he fails to recognise quality is also a major issue.

 

[AndreB]

I think quality is the first issue and second is the exterior design. My neighbor complains about the quality, he said the new E-class is better.