LS [Official] Lexus LS (XF50)

[Carmaker1]

Lexus should hire a car designer instead of the origami master working for them now

The Lexus design director and of all Toyota Motor Corporation since 2010, Tokuo Fukuichi (designed original Previa MPV in 1986-87), has been replaced as of this year with a new design chief.

However, the next evolution of Lexus design is already in progress as seen by those examples I showed. It will not be until 2020-22 that the new chief will show anything truly new at the very earliest. Even at that, a new design is unlikely to replace the incoming one.

CEO Akio Toyoda has a prominent hand in Lexus design direction and changing designers won't make a difference, based on Toyoda's level of influence. He's like the prince of the Japanese automotive industry, so what he wants and he will usually get, save for board approval on certain things budgetary and etc.

 

[Kowalski]

#MakeLexusLookGoodAgain

 

[hovabongZA]

Really tough crowd, but looks are very subjective ....I love Lexus current designs IS, GS, LC and LS ...and I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again I prefer the looks of the IS to the 3er and C class.

 

[martinbo]

Funny how Lexus look far better on the road than in pics. The IS is a great looking car, the NX and RX are refreshing takes on the challenging two-box SUV format. As for the LC 500 - it's a rolling piece of modern automotive art.

 

[Kowalski]

Funny how Lexus look far better on the road than in pics. The IS is a great looking car, the NX and RX are refreshing takes on the challenging two-box SUV format. As for the LC 500 - it's a rolling piece of modern automotive art.

So you're saying the new LS is a rolling piece of shit? Because that's what modern art is.

 

[Monster]

So you're saying the new LS is a rolling piece of shit? Because that's what modern art is.

Comon now don't twist his words.

 

[Carmaker1]

#MakeLexusLookGoodAgain

Honestly, I really hated that period for the LS. The late 2009 to September 2012 iteration above was lame duck product. The worst, next to the aesthetics of the 2000-03 period (copied C140 & W140). The LS 460 of 2006 was so clean and well executed, that the clay model from 2003 highlights my feelings on this. People called it bland and slab-sided, but I disagreed. The exterior was just clean and simple.

It was an L-finessed BMW, simple as that. Very much an upsized derivative of the E60 5er BIG TIME! An indirect BMW copy, which avoided the E65, but went for its sibling (5er). Interior center stack could've been better and more substantial like later version (12+). Despite that, it sold like gangbusters at launch (rivaling W221) and was the car that made me really take the car seriously, only to let me down in 2009 and 2012 with weak or belated efforts. Lexus has never captured that LS momentum again, hoping to do so with the 2018 model.

I have said this before and I'll say it again. Toyota as parent company of Lexus, should've supported Lexus management skipping a 2010 model year WEAK refresh and instead ordered an LS big facelift in Q4 2010/Q1 2011 for the 2011 model year, a la what the 2013 model year LS mega-facelift was. They mismanaged the LS lifecycle badly, thinking they were pulling a 1994 (see '95 LS 400) with the MY 2013 car.

Sure, it wouldn't have gotten the Spindle Grille if launched as a MY 2011, but that could've been added for MY 2013 and then another light update.

This is actually how the XF40 LS life-cycle went, plus some more.

1. 2001 - Start of Development of 250L Programme at Technical Centre Toyota City, Aichi and Nagoya HQ
2. 2002 - Design work starts on XF40 under 250L (LS 430 facelift frozen)
3. 2003 - Final Design Approved (LS 430 facelift also launched)
4. 2004 - Design Freeze of XF40 at beginning of the year.
5. 2005 - Prototypes spotted; LF-Sh Concept
6. 2006 - Model revealed and released, planning for refresh.
7. 2007 - Launch of flagship LS600h, development starts on refresh
8. 2008 - Design freeze on XF40 II, launch of AWD LS 460 for MY 2009.
9. 2009 - Stupid weak refresh is a terrible cost-cutting effort for MY 2010.
10. 2010 - LS permanently loses U.S. sales crown to MB, over cheapened LS for MY 2010. (XF40 III Mega-Facelift design approved)
11. 2011 - LS falls to third place in US sales, via new F01 7er expansion. (Prototypes of XF40 III are tested at Hokkaido and HQ) 200B programme is greenlighted.
12. 2012 - Full development of 200B programme commences in January 2012, XF40 III prototypes hit the roads and teasers are released in January 2012. XF40 III revealed in July, sold from September.
13. 2013 - Styling begins to conclude on 200B programme by December.
14. 2014 - Design of XF50 LS is frozen on June 27, 2014, major updates introduced for MY 2015 XF40 in autumn. First XF50 prototypes built and is shown privately to select audiences in Fall 2014.
15. 2015 - First 200B mules caught testing. Cancelling of mainline V8 offering for 200B. Minor changes for MY 2016 in autumn.
16. 2016 - First 200B prototypes of XF50 spotted in public in July.
17. 2017 - Successor XF50 revealed and XF40 ends production in Q3, after 11 years.

This is how the life-cycle should've been, accounting for delays:

1. 2006 - LS 460 Launch
2. 2007 - LS 600h Launch
3. 2008 - Minor updates for MY 2009
4. 2009 - No changes for MY 2010
5. 2010 - Major facelift for MY 2011 in Q4 2010.
6. 2011 - Or Major facelift for MY 2011 in Q1 2011. No changes or little amount for MY 2012.
7. 2012 - Moderate changes for MY 2013 in late 2012.
8. 2013 - Minor refresh for MY 2014 to add Spindle Grille, prepare transition to XF50.
9. 2014 - No changes for MY '15
10. 2015 - Standardized equipment for MY 2016
11. 2016 - Redesigned LS revealed in Paris for Q2 2017 launch as 2017.5.

My biggest issue was how weak and lazy the MY 2010 LS facelift was, resulting in so many segment customers dismissing it over the bold step forward with the 2007 MY car. Mostly in favour of the very much improved W221 facelift for MY 2010, that felt solidly Mercedes for once, than rebound MB/high-end Chrysler. (I really did not like pre-facelift W221 in reg guise) Plus that of the new F01, which did even better with sub-750i's in the U.S. market like 740i and hybrid.

Toyota killed the momemtum for the LS with a weak first refresh and that of keeping it past its sell-by date

 

[MAJESTIC]

Wow^

But I must agree the 2007-2009 LS460L/LS600hL were the best looking of the XF40s. The 2010 made it look more Camry-ish to me, especially with the orange turn signal lense out back IMO. To actually read how Lexus mismanaged the last generation so poorly, my goodness, I am at a lost for words.

 

[DjordjeC63]

Agree about that first-facelift. It looked cheap.
For me original LS460 is perfect design, LS430 is also really good. And I like LS500 too.

 

[Carmaker1]

Wow^

But I must agree the 2007-2009 LS460L/LS600hL were the best looking of the XF40s. The 2010 made it look more Camry-ish to me, especially with the orange turn signal lense out back IMO. To actually read how Lexus mismanaged the last generation so poorly, my goodness, I am at a lost for words.

BigBenzGirl, this post of yours is heavenly accurate and beyond! It became a big Camry in looks for 2010, which I forgot to even mention! I wish I could rate this post of yours 2x!

This gaffe was the work of Toyota CEO Katsuaki Watanabe, who became CEO in 2005, roughly 1.5 to 2 years after the final design for the 2007 was approved in 2003.

He nickeled and dimed the XF40 after it went on sale in 2006-07 (via the refresh), plus vetoed much more upmarket aspirations for it. Akio Toyoda become CEO when the last pre-production 2010 cars were being built in mid-2009.

After Toyota's recall crisis in 2009-10 (alongside global financial crisis), the LS even suffered more with Akio Toyoda having his hands tied with the crisis and the expense of LFA project being used against him by the executive board. Delay of a ground-up LS redesign was his idea, plus the need to fix the wrongs of the 2010 car.

This car is supposed to be ambassador for the ultimate in Japanese luxury (on a global scale), if not Asian luxury cars overall. The business models for this car confuses me at times, but another flagship is coming at least. They wanted more of a bargain offering, that even fell below the outgoing XF40 positioning.

Despite the naive giddiness of the UK staff that showed me the LS 500h late last year in private, filling my head either aspirations or fallacies, this new LS is instead meant to not step on the toes of S-Class (to a degree). The expense of the outgoing LS and LS600hL failure, is a major reason. They are taking it very slow.

 

[MAJESTIC]

BigBenzGirl, this post of yours is heavenly accurate and beyond! It became a big Camry in looks for 2010, which I forgot to even mention! I wish I could rate this post of yours 2x!

This gaffe was the work of Toyota CEO Katsuaki Watanabe, who became CEO in 2005, roughly 1.5 to 2 years after the final design for the 2007 was approved in 2003.

He nickeled and dimed the XF40 after it went on sale in 2006-07 (via the refresh), plus vetoed much more upmarket aspirations for it. Akio Toyoda become CEO when the last pre-production 2010 cars were being built in mid-2009.

After Toyota's recall crisis in 2009-10 (alongside global financial crisis), the LS even suffered more with Akio Toyoda having his hands tied with the crisis and the expense of LFA project being used against him by the executive board. Delay of a ground-up LS redesign was his idea, plus the need to fix the wrongs of the 2010 car.

This car is supposed to be ambassador for the ultimate in Japanese luxury (on a global scale), if not Asian luxury cars overall. The business models for this car confuses me at times, but another flagship is coming at least. They wanted more of a bargain offering, that even fell below the outgoing XF40 positioning.

Despite the naive giddiness of the UK staff that showed me the LS 500h late last year in private, filling my head either aspirations or fallacies, this new LS is instead meant to not step on the toes of S-Class (to a degree). The...

This honestly explains so much! With so much going on behind the scenes, the delay was probably the best for the LS... many things needed to be rectified and this current gen LS looks like a return to true Lexus form. But Lexus is insane to even have the thought of positioning the LS as a "bargain" this time around.

P.S. I've been reading your posts here and over in the 7 Series development thread, and I have learned so much information about topics I have always researched about. I have a pleasure in reading about the development of different luxury cars and your posts are golden. Thanks!!

 

[sako97]

So Finally.... Lexus is cognizant of the fact that the Spindle grille (and the design language, subsequently) has become too radical and has disappointed their conservative core clientele. Sales aren't really increasing the way the brand hoped and ironically, more and more Lexus owners are moving on to one of the Germanic trio.

Lexus group VP and General Manager Jeff Bracken at NAIAS:

I’ll be very transparent. It’s our signature grille. Some of our models have a more expressive signature grille than others. The folks that look at it as somewhat polarizing would be, for the most part, the folks that have been with us since the beginning. In fact I’ll take phone calls from some of these owners and will literally spend 45 minutes to an hour on the phone with me just expressing how disappointed they are.

It gives me an opportunity to explain why we’re going down this path. I understand your concern. It’s a very purposeful and strategic move on our part. If we lose some of our tradition owners it’s a unsettling for us but won’t preclude us from moving down this path. We hope to gain more (customers) than we lose. We don’t want to lose anybody, but…” The bottom line for Lexus was survival and the older, more traditional styling simply wouldn’t allow for that. “Our (previous) image had been that of a producer of high-quality luxury vehicles for years. But that wasn’t enough to keep us relevant. It was important that we not only produced high-quality luxury vehicles but also that had to be edgy in terms of styling and cutting-edge technology.

The bold is something a GM would usually keep internal.


Link: Old Lexus Owners Called To Complain About The New Radical Styling

 

[Star&Car]

I agree with him,the brand must take a risk or it wouldn't have a chance against Germans.

 

[Monster]

So Finally.... Lexus is cognizant of the fact that the Spindle grille (and the design language, subsequently) has become too radical and has disappointed their conservative core clientele. Sales aren't really increasing the way the brand hoped and ironically, more and more Lexus owners are moving on to one of the Germanic trio.
Lexus group VP and General Manager Jeff Bracken at NAIAS:

The bold is something a GM would usually keep internal.

Link: Old Lexus Owners Called To Complain About The New Radical Styling

The problem with Lexus's styling is more than just the grill, some of the other design elements just seems too random and out of place, the facelifted IS, GS and the NX are examples of over design. However I do find the styling of the RX, RC and the new LS to be quite attractive. Also Lexus really needs to make huge improvements to their in car tech interface, it is still not user intuitive and the graphics, design icons are stuck in the mid 2000s.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

I do understand Lexus. The clientèle in this marketsegment however is rather more conservative than avant-garde/progressive. So I wonder of it’s the right direction for the LS.

 

[Yaz]

I think it fits the new LC and LS more than the previous Lexus'.

They're starting to show up at the dealers. My cousin went to check out the RX350 L sent me this video of the new LS:

 

[tristatez28lt1]

2018 Lexus LS 500 | Why Buy?

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[sako97]

Rode in a relative's new LS500 today... some random takeaways.

- Interior is quite nice and well constructed. Different.
- Exterior is too "trendy" for this segment, and likely won't age well. The chrome rims on the luxury version are way too busy.
- Ride quality is really good, but doesn't hold a candle to the S-Class. Better than the G11 I drove for a while.
- The infotainment would drive me nuts if I had to live with it.
- The TTV6 is plain unrefined. Toyota's VVT-iE + a 3.5L V6 was a kiss of death for smoothness. The 4.6L V8 from last gen was for a time the smoothest and quietest V8 on the market. Unfortunate.

In sum, the competition has nothing to worry about..... loyal LS clientele will upgrade, but I don't forsee many W222 owners going to trade in.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Rode in a relative's new LS500 today... some random takeaways.

- Interior is quite nice and well constructed. Different.
- Exterior is too "trendy" for this segment, and likely won't age well. The chrome rims on the luxury version are way too busy.
- Ride quality is really good, but doesn't hold a candle to the S-Class. Better than the G11 I drove for a while.
- The infotainment would drive me nuts if I had to live with it.
- The TTV6 is plain unrefined. Toyota's VVT-iE + a 3.5L V6 was a kiss of death for smoothness. The 4.6L V8 from last gen was for a time the smoothest and quietest V8 on the market. Unfortunate.

In sum, the competition has nothing to worry about..... loyal LS clientele will upgrade, but I don't forsee many W222 owners going to trade in.

I’m shocked to hear the engine is unrefined. Isn’t that supposed to be a cornerstone of Lexus luxury?

 

[Rolf]

I’m shocked to hear the engine is unrefined. Isn’t that supposed to be a cornerstone of Lexus luxury?

Lexus have gone the more sportier route with this LS. I have seen a few video reviews with the American journo's all mentioning that the turbo V6 has a noticiable sporty rasp and is not butter smooth. Also one video comparison was made with the equivalent S-class S400 and the Lexus was quicker in the slaloms and had better braking ability as well. They said surprisingly the Lexus had less body movements and felt more neutral than the Mercedes. Who would of thought that a Lexus would be more sporty than a Mercedes to drive? One thing they didnt mention was ride comfort and seat comfort, I am sure this is where the Merc will be much better.