M6 [Official] BMW M6 Gran Coupe

[K-A]

Yea...those lines on the side are too much. Especially the one going along the wheel arch. I counted 4 lines. That even one more than the CLS. Shame on them.

Dude, GET OVER IT. BMW designs cohesive and beautiful cars, M-B can't design lines that flow to save their lives.

You have no idea about what good lines look like, you admitted it yourself. Look at the 6er and realize how important lines are. Look at the CLS and realize how poorly laid out lines can ruin the essence of a car and take away from it completely.

 

[HighestOfHigh]

Dude, GET OVER IT. BMW designs cohesive and beautiful cars, M-B can't design lines that flow to save their lives.

You have no idea about what good lines look like, you admitted it yourself. Look at the 6er and realize how important lines are. Look at the CLS and realize how poorly laid out lines can ruin the essence of a car and take away from it completely.

What the hell are you talking about?

First of all, I have NEVER admitted being wrong or having "no idea" about anything. Secondly, anyone with common sense can tell that the remark you quoted was me being sarcastic. You are not the supreme authority on the usage of lines/creases in automotive design. You and your followers have no certification nor have you been granted the authority by God to judge designs.

Your whole "lines" campaign is an epic failure, which has cause the entire forum to lower any respect they had for you. Everything that you have stated in this forum is YOUR OPINION and nothing more. The fact that you purchased another car just to prove a point shows your level of stupidity.

Really K-A? Find some newbie to play with because that BS argument doesn't work on my level.

 

[K-A]

You said yourself that "lines are lines" which explains why you can't comprehend the inherent flaws in MB line placement and understand why BMW could have a hundred lines on the side of their cars but right now they all perfectly work and flow.

Case closed.

And I got a new car because it made my M-B feel like a 10 year old Taxi in comparison, and that's the truth.

 

[Giannis]

Guys, let's not get any more off topic and stick to the topic of this thread: M6 Gran Coupe.

Thanks.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Are U surprised?

Honestly, a little. The CF roof was for the M3/M6 coupes only. Didn't think they'd put it on the GC.

 

[picsoubmw]

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[Deleted member 25]

Would have been perfect if the security norms allowed them ton incorporate the grill in the bonnet.

 

[klier]

Those norms allow this, but it's cheaper to make it with fugly hood shutline...

But there's hope; the 1er GT and F15 X5 don't have this hood cutline...

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Dude, GET OVER IT. BMW designs cohesive and beautiful cars, M-B can't design lines that flow to save their lives.

You have no idea about what good lines look like, you admitted it yourself. Look at the 6er and realize how important lines are. Look at the CLS and realize how poorly laid out lines can ruin the essence of a car and take away from it completely.

This is fresh. KA telling someone to GET OVER IT.

BTW KA, I've test driven the 5 on several occasions and am very familiar with BMW products. I certainly don't think it makes our E feel like a 10 year old Taxi.

 

[K-A]

This is fresh. KA telling someone to GET OVER IT.

BTW KA, I've test driven the 5 on several occasions and am very familiar with BMW products. I certainly don't think it makes our E feel like a 10 year old Taxi.

Well I've had both back to back and at the same time.

I stand by that statement. I respect if your views are different, but IMO the F10 just outdoes it on so many levels, if I'm being dramatic then "The E drives/feels like a 10 year old Taxi in comparison (2011 E350 well equipped VS pretty loaded 2013 535i specifically)". I'm not saying it LOOKS like a 10 year old Taxi in comparison, but the drive and interior namely, and of course the technology and engineering methods.

The F10 drives better than a pre-facelift (not sure about facelift as I haven't had much seat time in them) W221 S-Class in my opinion. And before M-B devotees call for my head again, there's a Member on the M-B and BMW Boards names "Emilner" who went from an '07 S550 to a 2011 550i (when it was a newly launched body, he now has a 6er Convertible) and said that his F10 did just about EVERYTHING better if not just as good. Was at least close to or about as smooth, even quieter, far surpassed it in driving dynamics and of course technology was on another level. I thought he was crazy and I think poked fun at that statement when I heard it, but now I see what he was on about. Of course he was looking for something tighter and more dynamic than the strictly-luxury S so that skewed his (and my) perceptions.

This car is really ridiculous, I've never driven anything like it. I really am not trying to throw the E under the bus to enact some misguided "revenge" against M-B for feeling like they tried their hardest to kill the magic of their brand for me.

This car is SERIOUSLY on another level. Remember, my F10 is pretty well loaded and has some new tech that we got for 2013. The sense of occasion and all around "cutting edge environment" vibe you get from it truly makes the E's feel almost mundane.

 

[Merc1]

Well I've had both back to back and at the same time.

I stand by that statement. I respect if your views are different, but IMO the F10 just outdoes it on so many levels, if I'm being dramatic then "The E drives/feels like a 10 year old Taxi in comparison (2011 E350 well equipped VS pretty loaded 2013 535i specifically)". I'm not saying it LOOKS like a 10 year old Taxi in comparison, but the drive and interior namely, and of course the technology and engineering methods.

The F10 drives better than a pre-facelift (not sure about facelift as I haven't had much seat time in them) W221 S-Class in my opinion. And before M-B devotees call for my head again, there's a Member on the M-B and BMW Boards names "Emilner" who went from an '07 S550 to a 2011 550i (when it was a newly launched body, he now has a 6er Convertible) and said that his F10 did just about EVERYTHING better if not just as good. Was at least close to or about as smooth, even quieter, far surpassed it in driving dynamics and of course technology was on another level. I thought he was crazy and I think poked fun at that statement when I heard it, but now I see what he was on about. Of course he was looking for something tighter and more dynamic than the strictly-luxury S so that skewed his (and my) perceptions.

This car is really ridiculous, I've never driven anything like it. I really am not trying to throw the E under the bus to enact some misguided "revenge" against M-B for feeling like they tried their hardest to kill the magic of their brand for me.

This car is SERIOUSLY on another level. Remember, my F10 is pretty well loaded and has some new tech that we got for 2013. The sense of occasion and all around "cutting edge environment" vibe you get from it truly makes the E's feel almost mundane.

He is silly if he is comparing dynamics of a S-Class to a 5-Series. You're judging the S-Class against a much smaller car that is trying to be sporty. Similarly the 5-Series doesn't ride like or feel like a S-Class either.

" I really am not trying to throw the E under the bus to enact some misguided "revenge" against M-B for feeling like they tried their hardest to kill the magic of their brand for me."

That is exactly what it sounds like because some of what you're saying is just ridiculous. There is nothing harsher than the take from a person in the wrong car, they always try to paint the car out to be far below what they're driving now. Seriously the "dynamics of the S-Class vs the 5-Series", that should tell you right there they're talking our their neck.

I do find it curious though because a few months back in various threads (before the facelift was seen) how much you talked about how BMW was lacking in "engineering" because of the steel used in and the weight of their cars. Now it seems its the best thing on 4 wheels. All of this when the 5-Series has been thoroughly outdone by the competition, even at the M5 level according to the press. Do you really think a 5-Series " did just about EVERYTHING better if not just as good" as an S-Class?

I agree it is a better car in most aspects vs the E-Class, at least the pre-FL one, but on the same level as the S-Class. That says he simply was in the wrong car (S550) to start with.


M

 

[K-A]

He is silly if he is comparing dynamics of a S-Class to a 5-Series. You're judging the S-Class against a much smaller car that is trying to be sporty. Similarly the 5-Series doesn't ride like or feel like a S-Class either.

" I really am not trying to throw the E under the bus to enact some misguided "revenge" against M-B for feeling like they tried their hardest to kill the magic of their brand for me."

That is exactly what it sounds like because some of what you're saying is just ridiculous. There is nothing harsher than the take from a person in the wrong car, they always try to paint the car out to be far below what they're driving now. Seriously the "dynamics of the S-Class vs the 5-Series", that should tell you right there they're talking our their neck.

I do find it curious though because a few months back in various threads (before the facelift was seen) how much you talked about how BMW was lacking in "engineering" because of the steel used in and the weight of their cars. Now it seems its the best thing on 4 wheels. All of this when the 5-Series has been thoroughly outdone by the competition, even at the M5 level according to the press. Do you really think a 5-Series " did just about EVERYTHING better if not just as good" as an S-Class?

I agree it is a better car in most aspects vs the E-Class, at least the pre-FL one, but on the same level as the S-Class. That says he simply was in the wrong car (S550) to start with.


M

Did you not read where I said EXACTLY that? That he was looking for something more fit for him?

He said the 5 was QUIETER and rode almost as, if not as smoothly and if I'm not mistaken his take was that it felt even more solid. That's what struck out to me.

I was saying that BMW's use less "advanced steels" to make their cars stiff and sturdy while M-B use more advanced steels, but less of them (hence the weight differences). That's a fact if you look at the rate of HSS/UHSS/etc. The only other things I've derided BMW's engineering over is their reliability woes lately.

The 5 does EVERYTHING better than the E, save for some quirks here and there. It's no comparison. The facelift E might slightly help that, but it's still inherently the same car.

Have you driven a W212 and F10 regularly over the same roads to gauge how they handle bumps? I have, and the F10 is remarkably smoother and quieter. Have you driven both through canyons? I have, and while the E rolls like a Caddy the F10 plants pretty nicely. Let's not get into the N55 VS the pre-facelift 268 HP V6 (performance, smoothness, or mileage). How about tech? No contest, Transmission? The 7G just doesn't hold up, interior? No contest. I ALWAYS said what kept me partial to the E wasn't its engineering but its looks. The beauty of that is that the F10 is such a nice car all I had to do was let my grip go of my partiality to the E and I could not only fall for it quickly (as I've been saying forever would be the case if the opportunity arose), but I could now see it for all its engineering supremacies.

There's a reason I made the jump. This wasn't an overnight revelation.

I haven't shifted my position one bit on the E's looks aside from naturally maturing with it and forcing it to now impress me by literal design prowess and not "new-hotness". Yeah the rear started to bore me too much and the fussy detailing on the sides started to get a little old to me, not to mention the proportions started looking a liiiiiittle less cunning, but IMO the front of the pre-facelift E is an absolute masterpiece. That was always my strongest connection to it.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

K.A I'm finding it very hard to take your posts seriously. Comparisons of the 5 and E have gone both ways, and I'm yet to read a review that states the E is as thoroughly outclassed as what you are trying to represent in your posts.

Interestingly, it is the 5-er that has been criticized by Australian press for having a fidgety yet floaty ride and dead feeling steering.

From your posts over the months, it appears you are a man of extremes. It's one way or another, all or nothing, no middle ground.

On a side note, whoever believes the 5's refinement approaches or exceeds that of an S has rocks in their head.

 

[K-A]

K.A I'm finding it very hard to take your posts seriously. Comparisons of the 5 and E have gone both ways, and I'm yet to read a review that states the E is as thoroughly outclassed as what you are trying to represent in your posts.

Interestingly, it is the 5-er that has been criticized by Australian press for having a fidgety yet floaty ride and dead feeling steering.

From your posts over the months, it appears you are a man of extremes. It's one way or another, all or nothing, no middle ground.

On a side note, whoever believes the 5's refinement approaches or exceeds that of an S has rocks in their head.

I'm a self professed extremist, that goes without saying.

Remember, what the reviewers pan the F10 for is what makes ME fall for it. They pan it because it feels so isolated, too quiet, too soft and cozy, too luxurious.... but guess what? Those are all the reasons I wanted M-B for. So M-B has been slacking on that and BMW basically made the best Benz of today. On top of all that you still get BMW dynamics in the sport categories that might not be up to snuff to those who crave the E60's brutally connected ride, but to an M-B guy feels downright canyon-carving-ready.

To put it in short: The F10 gave me what I wanted out of Mercedes, yet there's still BMW DNA in there. Motor Trend I believe it was said the same thing "Feels like how Mercedes used to Build their cars". They (or another publication) also said something along the lines of "The A6 really tries to feel like a $60K car, but the BMW doesn't have to try at all, it does it without effort".

This is what I wanted out of the W212. I looked past the lousy tech (I don't buy cars for tech), I didn't mind the exaggeratedly floaty steering, I made myself rationalize the hard plastics and kind of cold interior feel (it reminds me of the W126 era), I just wanted a rock solid, hot looking Benz. But guess what? The most prevalent reason to buy the car, the ride, was spoiled because it feels like it's trying to make itself fall apart when you go over road harshness.

The W212 was my best experience in owning a car to date, the F10 will have to prove itself before it can take that crown, but so far, it outclasses the E heavily, they truly don't feel like they're in the same class. Does that speak highly of the F10 or lowly of the W212? I guess that's up to perception, but IMO mostly highly of the F10 because the E as a functional and utilitarian product is very well done.

I used to get pissed on the MB Boards because people would trash the W212 so much, say how it wasn't "competitive", I'd be the biggest defender of the car. But how much could I do so? BMW put out a product that they designed to crush the E, and guess what again? M-B's about-face facelift proves that BMW did just that. I try and stick to my guns as much as possible, but I can only hold my ground for so long before I have to objectively start open-mindedly judging even my own car.

 

[Merc1]

I'm a self professed extremist, that goes without saying.

Remember, what the reviewers pan the F10 for is what makes ME fall for it. They pan it because it feels so isolated, too quiet, too soft and cozy, too luxurious.... but guess what? Those are all the reasons I wanted M-B for. So M-B has been slacking on that and BMW basically made the best Benz of today. On top of all that you still get BMW dynamics in the sport categories that might not be up to snuff to those who crave the E60's brutally connected ride, but to an M-B guy feels downright canyon-carving-ready.

To put it in short: The F10 gave me what I wanted out of Mercedes, yet there's still BMW DNA in there. Motor Trend I believe it was said the same thing "Feels like how Mercedes used to Build their cars". They (or another publication) also said something along the lines of "The A6 really tries to feel like a $60K car, but the BMW doesn't have to try at all, it does it without effort".

This is what I wanted out of the W212. I looked past the lousy tech (I don't buy cars for tech), I didn't mind the exaggeratedly floaty steering, I made myself rationalize the hard plastics and kind of cold interior feel (it reminds me of the W126 era), I just wanted a rock solid, hot looking Benz. But guess what? The most prevalent reason to buy the car, the ride, was spoiled because it feels like it's trying to make itself fall apart when you go over road harshness.

The W212 was my best experience in owning a car to date, the F10 will have to prove itself before it can take that crown, but so far, it outclasses the E heavily, they truly don't feel like they're in the same class. Does that speak highly of the F10 or lowly of the W212? I guess that's up to perception, but IMO mostly highly of the F10 because the E as a functional and utilitarian product is very well done.

I used to get pissed on the MB Boards because people would trash the W212 so much, say how it wasn't "competitive", I'd be the biggest defender of the car. But how much could I do so? BMW put out a product that they designed to crush the E, and guess what again? M-B's about-face facelift proves that BMW did just that. I try and stick to my guns as much as possible, but I can only hold my ground for so long before I have to objectively start open-mindedly judging even my own car.

That's just it though, there is a huge contradiction here. You don't get the MB experience of quiet isolation etc and the BMW dynamics. The dynamics aren't there like they used to be, no where near it according to most. It isn't canyon carving ready by true/traditional BMW standards.

Any car can feel expensive if done right, that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about here. If BMW is building a Mercedes, then you aren't getting the true BMW experience.

I too am attracted to BMW's now, but it is for their design first, not the way they drive. I am under illusion that the current heavy BMWs are the cars they were one or two generations ago. Those cars were truly connected to the road with real steering which didn't require you to push a button to get a more dynamic experience.

How does the BMW hold up over the same bumpy roads? The 6-Series has what the press calls "violent impact harshness" and it is true. Certain sharp edged bumped send a shiver right down the spine of the car that you can really feel, which is nothing at all like a Mercedes S-Class or CL, near the 6-Series' price point. Not sure about the 5-Series, but it does ride on the same platform. If feels as if there are no bushings or any kind of suspension at all, yet it isn't jarring like in a cheaper/sports car.


M

 

[K-A]

That's just it though, there is a huge contradiction here. You don't get the MB experience of quiet isolation etc and the BMW dynamics. The dynamics aren't there like they used to be, no where near it according to most. It isn't canyon carving ready by true/traditional BMW standards.

Any car can feel expensive if done right, that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about here. If BMW is building a Mercedes, then you aren't getting the true BMW experience.

I too am attracted to BMW's now, but it is for their design first, not the way they drive. I am under illusion that the current heavy BMWs are the cars they were one or two generations ago. Those cars were truly connected to the road with real steering which didn't require you to push a button to get a more dynamic experience.

How does the BMW hold up over the same bumpy roads? The 6-Series has what the press calls "violent impact harshness" and it is true. Certain sharp edged bumped send a shiver right down the spine of the car that you can really feel, which is nothing at all like a Mercedes S-Class or CL, near the 6-Series' price point. Not sure about the 5-Series, but it does ride on the same platform. If feels as if there are no bushings or any kind of suspension at all, yet it isn't jarring like in a cheaper/sports car.


M

Yeah, but the 5er STILL makes the E feel like a floaty Caddy in corners AND is more luxurious at the same time (and more quiet I think). It literally feels and drives like a considerably more expensive car. It has the E's number in each of the two areas (luxury/sporty), which is why my observations seems dramatized.... yet true. Why do you think M-B did such an insanely about-face facelift. Oh, and add seats to that. The E's seats are flat and basic after you've sat in even the NON-Multicontour Dakota seats on the 5er, they are on comfort levels vastly superior to the E's. I even think the 5ers interior feels just as if not more rigid and strong, especially since it doesn't have that faulty "sliding door" center console that always gets stuck (on both my E's). The 5ers doors sound very underwhelming when closing though, very flabby and light which isn't as nice as the E's crisp and "clank" sounding door closing.

It may not have classic BMW dynamics, but compared to the E it feels like a scalpel, much more balanced and tight in corners and more poised in pretty much all road conditions. AND it has bigger wheels to boot. And again, is considerably more comfortable. KEEP IN MIND that my 2013 M Sport is the first F10 to have an all "steel" (no tech) suspension that's actually made by M for the F10. Before you had to get tech upgrades to change the suspension, which is why basic F10's felt so soft. I feel like my 2013 feels tighter than the 2012 M Sport I drove which felt a little floatier.... though I'd have to drive both back to back to really see what's what.

The 6er relies on a sportier vibe and that may be throwing its bumps absorbing off, I've heard people talk about a harsher experience over various rods. The 5er handles bumps and harsh roads extremely well.

 

[Merc1]

Yeah, but the 5er STILL makes the E feel like a floaty Caddy in corners AND is more luxurious at the same time (and more quiet I think). It literally feels and drives like a considerably more expensive car. It has the E's number in each of the two areas (luxury/sporty), which is why my observations seems dramatized.... yet true. Why do you think M-B did such an insanely about-face facelift. Oh, and add seats to that. The E's seats are flat and basic after you've sat in even the NON-Multicontour Dakota seats on the 5er, they are on comfort levels vastly superior to the E's. I even think the 5ers interior feels more rigid and strong, especially since it doesn't have that faulty "sliding door" center console that always gets stuck (on both my E's). The 5ers doors sound very underwhelming when closing though, very flabby and light which isn't as nice as the E's crisp and "clank" sounding door closing.

It may not have classic BMW dynamics, but compared to the E it feels like a scalpel, much more balanced and tight in corners and more poised in pretty much all road conditions. AND it has bigger wheels to boot. And again, is considerably more comfortable.

The 6er relies on a sportier vibe and that may be throwing its bumps absorbing off, I've heard people talk about a harsher experience over various rods. The 5er handles bumps and harsh roads extremely well.

The facelift didn't have anything to do with the way the car drives, it was the design they changed. The chassis hasn't been touched from what we've seen so far. Your observations are dramatized for sure because any long time BMW driver/owner will tell you that the current 5 is the least dynamic one yet and overweight too boot.


M

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

The facelift didn't have anything to do with the way the car drives, it was the design they changed. The chassis hasn't been touched from what we've seen so far. Your observations are dramatized for sure because any long time BMW driver/owner will tell you that the current 5 is the least dynamic one yet and overweight too boot.


M

This. The M-Sport helps tighten the car up a bit though.

 

[Merc1]

This. The M-Sport helps tighten the car up a bit though.

Yep and it still doesn't equal the sporty prowess of past 5ers.


M

 

[K-A]

The facelift didn't have anything to do with the way the car drives, it was the design they changed. The chassis hasn't been touched from what we've seen so far. Your observations are dramatized for sure because any long time BMW driver/owner will tell you that the current 5 is the least dynamic one yet and overweight too boot.


M

Why are you bringing up previous 5ers? Have you ever driven any? Because I grew up with them.

The point is the F10 OUT-MERCEDESES MERCEDES, AND still has superior sporting dynamics via BMW DNA, albeit more lost in the coddling comfort (fine by me, I'm coming from a Mercedes).

I would never buy an E60 because it was too harsh.

My point is the F10 does everything better than the W212. You have no idea what you're arguing here because you have no experience with both cars. Name ONE area the W212 objectively does better than the F10. I'll be waiting.