M3/M4 [Official] BMW M3 Sedan and M4 Coupe

[bimmerjph]

Not impressed with the exhaust note.

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+1

Although I want to make it clear that I love the inline six sound, just not THAT inline six's sound.

 

[Porsche Guy]

Lol Klier, why not 200HP/200kilos? The car is already making ~470 HP according to most dynos. I don't think it needs anymore. Weight is interesting. There is some easy gains to be made - bucket seats, stripped out inside, thinner glass surfaces, CF hood maybe. Beyond that it is going to be difficult and expensive. The car is already light for it's size. Think about it, despite being a proper 2+2/4 seater based on bog 3er, M3/4 is as light/lighter than the AMG GT - a much more expensive dedicated 2 seater sports car.

High performance models typically have the highest margins for manufacturers so there is probably room to do something $$$ with the GTS. Not saying it will happen though. The M3/4 is surprisingly light but it could always be lighter. Who needs AC or iDrive anyways?

 

[Zafiro]

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[klier]

Lol Klier, why not 200HP/200kilos? The car is already making ~470 HP according to most dynos. I don't think it needs anymore. Weight is interesting. There is some easy gains to be made - bucket seats, stripped out inside, thinner glass surfaces, CF hood maybe. Beyond that it is going to be difficult and expensive. The car is already light for it's size. Think about it, despite being a proper 2+2/4 seater based on bog 3er, M3/4 is as light/lighter than the AMG GT - a much more expensive dedicated 2 seater sports car.

I know, but I want to keep it positive, yet 200/200 is pushing it

If it gets 100hp extra, and is 100kg less, then it will 100,000 big ones more expensive too!

So?
The base M4 is cheap to begin with for what it offers. M4 GTS/CSL should be priced at/perform at 991 GT3 levels.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

So?
The base M4 is cheap to begin with for what it offers. M4 GTS/CSL should be priced at/perform at 991 GT3 levels.

The E92 M3 GTS was an overpriced model, albeit a very good one, which only sold out because it was built in extremely low numbers. Other than the engine changes, you could have modified a standard E92 M3 for much less and achieve results pretty close.

On to the present day - he standard M4 isn't even close to the standard 991 in terms of desirability. I'll refrain from comparing a GT3 to a car that doesn't exist yet.

The 911 has moved to an altogether higher level with the 991, both in terms of price and perceived status within motoring hierarchy. The M4 IS a good car. A very good one, and it's something I'd love to own one day. But it's no 911, and neither should it be compared to one.

As for the M4 being "cheap"? Really? Give it six months and there will be massive discounts on offer, just like the E92 M3, and therefore it's overpriced. The market decides that, just like the market has decided the M5 and M6 are overpriced and why you can get huge discounts on new cars. From my own observations of other, less BMW focused forums, the M3/M4 has been met with a luke-warm reaction. Most seem to think BMW are having a laugh charging what they do for what they PERCEIVE to be a slightly modified N55 engine. "Why buy an M4 when you can get an M135i for £30,000 less, or buy a 435d xDrive with 0-100 in 4.7 seconds?"

You try getting a similar discount on a 911.

 

[klier]

You don't get to decide what is desirable, sorry.

People will make their own judgement. And when a BMW is as expensive as a certain 911, be assured it will be as good or better.

 

[martinbo]

The standard M4 isn't even close to the standard 991 in terms of desirability. I'll refrain from comparing a GT3 to a car that doesn't exist yet.

The 911 has moved to an altogether higher level with the 991, both in terms of price and perceived status within motoring hierarchy. The M4 IS a good car. A very good one, and it's something I'd love to own one day. But it's no 911.

Whilst I do agree with you from a philosophical standpoint, I still have to wonder why I want an M4 more than a base 911. For me, it's the M4 that's the more desirable vehicle for my needs and wants. The problem with 911s and Caymans is that they are strictly two-people affairs (don't tell me about the rear seats in a 911 - my 10 year old can't get her legs behind either front seat) and therefore rather selfish things. An M4 you can enjoy more of the time with up to four people on board. Now, make it an M3 and the usability factor goes up further.

 

[Zafiro]

M4 isn't cheap, no one buy a standard M4 anymore, the ones I've seen are fully loaded with extra goodies which makes the price closer to a M5. Whats wrong with people!

 

[Betty Swollocks]

You don't get to decide what is desirable, sorry.

I never said I did Klier. Can we not assume that when someone makes a post, it's their own opinion? Do we have to write IMHO after every post?

Having said that, are you seriously suggesting that if you did a poll of general car enthusiasts, the M3/M4 would be voted as desirable as a 911? Really?!

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Whilst I do agree with you from a philosophical standpoint, I still have to wonder why I want an M4 more than a base 911. For me, it's the M4 that's the more desirable vehicle for my needs and wants. The problem with 911s and Caymans is that they are strictly two-people affairs (don't tell me about the rear seats in a 911 - my 10 year old can't get her legs behind either front seat) and therefore rather selfish things. An M4 you can enjoy more of the time with up to four people on board. Now, make it an M3 and the usability factor goes up further.

I think the usability of the M3/M4 is why it sells to the levels it does. I agree, being able to take three people along with you for the ride is a huge bonus. But is that really desirability? By that argument (and I'm taking it to the extreme here), the LaFerrari isn't as desirable as the M3.

 

[klier]

The 911 has moved to an altogether higher level with the 991, both in terms of price and perceived status within motoring hierarchy.

So that means there are too many badge whores.

Whilst I do agree with you from a philosophical standpoint, I still have to wonder why I want an M4 more than a base 911.

An M4 is better and cheaper than a base 911, so I don't think you have to wonder.

M4 isn't cheap, no one buy a standard M4 anymore, the ones I've seen are fully loaded with extra goodies which makes the price closer to a M5. Whats wrong with people!

It's cheap compared to a 911. Which is the whole point. Have you ever specced a fully loaded 911? Dear Lord brace yourself!

 

[martinbo]

I think the usability of the M3/M4 is why it sells to the levels it does. I agree, being able to take three people along with you for the ride is a huge bonus. But is that really desirability? By that argument (and I'm taking it to the extreme here), the LaFerrari isn't as desirable as the M3.

Well, it's all down to who's doing the desiring. It's such a personal thing. I'm not phased to admit that I desire the M4 more than the LaFerrari. I mean who am I kidding? What on earth would I want a LaFerrari for given my present socio-economic circumstances. Sure, if I was an excessively wealthy business mogul, or, a writer of such abysmally shit pop songs of Scandinavian origin, then naturally my value system would render the M4 completely undesirable and a LaFerrari the epitome of desirability. But in my conservative, yet still upwardly mobile circumstances an M4 is more desirable in just about any criteria over the base 911. Would I want a GT3 more? Of course I would. But only after I'd achieved the M4.

 

[Bucketslash11]

But in my conservative, yet still upwardly mobile circumstances an M4 is more desirable

so would you say you're following the law of jante (it's strong here in norway)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante

 

[martinbo]

so would you say you're following the law of jante (it's strong here in norway)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante

No, looking at the definitions and descriptions thereof I wouldn't say that I subscribe to this way of thinking. All that I am saying is that, all needs considered, my need for an M4 is greater than my need for a 911 or LaFerrari for that matter as it represents a certain milestone in my own self-actualisation. A 911 doesn't (yet) and nor does a LaFerrari (ever).

 

[Betty Swollocks]

so would you say you're following the law of jante (it's strong here in norway)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante

Blimey, I thought that mentality was unique to the British.

 

[DblPen]

As for the M4 being "cheap"? Really? Give it six months and there will be massive discounts on offer, just like the E92 M3, and therefore it's overpriced. The market decides that, just like the market has decided the M5 and M6 are overpriced and why you can get huge discounts on new cars. From my own observations of other, less BMW focused forums, the M3/M4 has been met with a luke-warm reaction. Most seem to think BMW are having a laugh charging what they do for what they PERCEIVE to be a slightly modified N55 engine. "Why buy an M4 when you can get an M135i for £30,000 less, or buy a 435d xDrive with 0-100 in 4.7 seconds?"

You try getting a similar discount on a 911.

Well, i think M3/M4 is probably a better value than any other m3 that came before it, just because of how much of engineering was put in it. Probably every m3 has been met with luke-warm reaction really. And the last quote is just dumb, anyone who thinks like that should just get 435d xdrive and be done with it.

 

[Mr Robert]

Whilst I do agree with you from a philosophical standpoint, I still have to wonder why I want an M4 more than a base 911. For me, it's the M4 that's the more desirable vehicle for my needs and wants. The problem with 911s and Caymans is that they are strictly two-people affairs (don't tell me about the rear seats in a 911 - my 10 year old can't get her legs behind either front seat) and therefore rather selfish things. An M4 you can enjoy more of the time with up to four people on board. Now, make it an M3 and the usability factor goes up further.

Yeah, my plan was for you to make the M4 (shrudder) into an M3 for that comparison with the non-S Carrera and see what happens.

Thanks.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Well, i think M3/M4 is probably a better value than any other m3 that came before it, just because of how much of engineering was put in it. Probably every m3 has been met with luke-warm reaction really. And the last quote is just dumb, anyone who thinks like that should just get 435d xdrive and be done with it.

As much as I agree that comparing a 435d xDrive with the M4 is stupid, the sad reality of today is that the general population seem more interested in numbers and performance "on paper". An I6 twin-turbo in the nose of an M3/M4 which appears similar to the N55 just is causing people to go "meh".

And the world is different to what it was 10 years ago when the E46 M3 was out. Some die-hard petrol heads, including friends of mine, just don't have the stomach for the costs of driving high performance cars any more, such as fuel, taxes and speeding fines. Driving is now more anti-social than ever, and it seems, at least from my viewpoint, some petrol heads are waving the white flag.

 

[Sunny]

Whilst I do agree with you from a philosophical standpoint, I still have to wonder why I want an M4 more than a base 911. For me, it's the M4 that's the more desirable vehicle for my needs and wants. The problem with 911s and Caymans is that they are strictly two-people affairs (don't tell me about the rear seats in a 911 - my 10 year old can't get her legs behind either front seat) and therefore rather selfish things. An M4 you can enjoy more of the time with up to four people on board. Now, make it an M3 and the usability factor goes up further.

Add me to the list of people who find M3/4 more desirable than the base 991. For me, the 911 line really starts with Carrera S. I know I am probably wrong in feeling this way - but I feel the base 911 panders to the crowd desperate to be seen driving a 911. Now Cayman GTS, yes, I would choose that over a M3/4 (provided of course the need for 4 seats is taken care of by other means).

 

[ThroughandThrough]

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