M3/M4 [Official] 2021 BMW M3 and M4 [G80 & G82]

[Rolf]

Tell me, as far as new car launches go - what's been hotter than M3/M4 and 992 Turbo S this year? And please for the love of glory don't say the new S-Class.

The AMG GT Black Series is definitely a contender for the hottest car of the year. This car could destroy the 992 Turbo S around all the famous tracks and come close on performance with its huge 730PS.

 

[David Brent]

Those who drive it in the form of a prototype in pretest, were amazed "the most fun I have ever driven" etc etc,

Oh well, it must be great then.

I don't think I've ever seen a bad review of a car in a pre-production test. They're a mutually beneficial back-rub.

 

[dalab]

Oh well, it must be great then.

I don't think I've ever seen a bad review of a car in a pre-production test. They're a mutually beneficial back-rub.

It's a Motortrend quote, it doesn't have to be great for that, but it isn't necessary for them to be that specifically enthusiastic either, but neither is it necessary that you always have to be annoyingly sarcastic, but you are, so I stick to what I said

 

[David Brent]

It's a Motortrend quote, it doesn't have to be great for that, but it isn't necessary for them to be that specifically enthusiastic either, but neither is it necessary that you always have to be annoyingly sarcastic, but you are, so I stick to what I said

You didn't have to use a meaningless pre-production test drive as supporting evidence to make your point, yet you did. If you're going to do that, don't be surprised if someone counters it by saying "yeah...doesn't really mean anything".

As for me being "annoyingly sarcastic"? Think what you want, but I'm not going to retaliate with insults the other way.

 

[LaArtist]

Tell me, as far as new car launches go - what's been hotter than M3/M4 and 992 Turbo S this year? And please for the love of glory don't say the new S-Class.

For f#cking sure the S class.
And these :
Ferrari Roma
SF 90
Gt black series
Id3
Id4

And probably a shit load more ,

Also wtf is hot ? Something totally different depending on the beholder.

Not one of you have presented anything ground breaking with this ugly heavy piece of shit. Haha

 

[David Brent]

In my quick opinion, it is the studio/indoor shots that are poor. I believe not having natural light (and therefore also natural shadows) does a disservice to the sometimes complex shapes, lines and depth of BMW designs.
The outdoor shots also have artificial lighting, and the action/motion shots are always over-processed. They're good for wallpaper purposes, but not for understanding and appreciate the detailing and sculpting that has gone into the M3/4.

Again, not saying the design is perfect. I feel the vertical grilles should have been given more depth akin to recent BMW concepts. The C-pillar/rear wheel arch of the 4er is still a sticking point, even with the aggressive styling and larger wheels of the M4. Even though the design of the rear bumper is very muscular, it's also quite simplistic when compared to the designs of the F82 and E92 M3/4s. The lights of the 4er should have either been slimmer, or featured eyebrows to give it a more aggressive & focused expression. Rear lights of 3er look better than the 4er.

While I agree with you regarding a lot of modern BMWs of recent years, it didn't happen that way when I saw the G22 for real a few weeks ago. It looks as awkward in real life as it does in the photos.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

For f#cking sure the S class.
And these :
Ferrari Roma
SF 90
Gt black series
Id3
Id4

And probably a shit load more ,

Also wtf is hot ? Something totally different depending on the beholder.

Not one of you have presented anything ground breaking with this ugly heavy piece of shit. Haha

The S class gets hot only when the thermostat refuses to open.

 

[David Brent]

do you want to make it look like I'm insulting you? as you always do .... well f#ck you, there you go

This all started because I said a pre-production drive isn't an accurate barometer of a car's abilities. And I'm sure the sarcasm wouldn't have been an issue if I'd said something postive about the BMW.

 

[Grosser]

M3/M4 thread is becoming W223 S Class thread....Balance is restored

 

[David Brent]

I think for as long as fanboys exist, this kind of bickering will exist. I find the whole thing a bit bizarre. I think the only person entitled to say "f*** you" to anybody criticising the M3/M4, or S-Class, or any other car in fact, is the chief engineer or designer of that car. Everybody else needs to have a serious look at themselves if they're getting GENUINELY upset because a stranger doesn't like their favourite car.

@dalab we get it. You like BMWs. Hell, I love them too.

 

[Sunny]

Difference is that no Mercedes looks like this.
It’s like comparing you marrying a 250 kg gorilla looking ass woman and say what’s the difference other people get married.. well yeah but not to a 250 kg gorilla with a mustache.
Do you understand the difference ?

No they don't. Instead they look like a whale penis - AMG GT 4, or a pug taking a dump - CLA. I have seen door mats that look more interesting than the new S. But that doesn't seem to stop you guys from circle jerking to it? Why? Don't be pissed, I am just calling it as is - all the fanboys are the same, they act like the car is family.

Not one of you have presented anything ground breaking with this ugly heavy piece of shit. Haha

Yes, I don't think there is anything groundbreaking about it either. And that is the bigger issue here. But the same goes for most german cars these days. With few exceptions, they are just massaging the same old turd, and that goes for the new S class too.

 

[dalab]

I think for as long as fanboys exist, this kind of bickering will exist. I find the whole thing a bit bizarre. I think the only person entitled to say "f*** you" to anybody criticising the M3/M4, or S-Class, or any other car in fact, is the chief engineer or designer of that car. Everybody else needs to have a serious look at themselves if they're getting GENUINELY upset because a stranger doesn't like their favourite car.

Do not transgress what I said anymore, I am not a fan boy and do not call me that again, the brand has nothing to do but with your disgusting sarcasm, I don't give a shit if you like these cars or not, I don't care, It is your behavior always trying to want to show you how you know more than others, nobody was talking to you so do not get involved

 

[LaArtist]

No they don't. Instead they look like a whale penis - AMG GT 4, or a pug taking a dump - CLA. I have seen door mats that look more interesting than the new S. But that doesn't seem to stop you guys from circle jerking to it? Why? Don't be pissed, I am just calling it as is - all the fanboys are the same, they act like the car is family.


Yes, I don't think there is anything groundbreaking about it either. And that is the bigger issue here. Not the ugly looks. But the same goes for most german cars these days. With few exceptions, they are just massaging the same old turd, and that goes for the new S class too.

True about the gt 4 door it’s a ugly beast.
The new S is the shit though and I can list you a shit load that is ground braking in that car over this. Just the rear seat airbags for one.

Thing is someone said this car is the shit and hot minus the looks and I say it ain’t actually the looks how ever shitty they are, are the only talking point of this car.

So yeah it ain’t hot it’s just ugly.

Look at it like a girl, normally girls who lack in looks make it up with personality or not being plain f#cking stupid.

So this car is ugly so it better come up with something to balance it’s looks, and it doesn’t so f that it’s the hottest car besides the 911..

 

[Ultimate Car Guy]

Yes, I don't think there is anything groundbreaking about it either. And that is the bigger issue here. But the same goes for most german cars these days. With few exceptions, they are just massaging the same old turd, and that goes for the new S class too.

Have been following this thread and would like to weigh-in on the topic of rate of development amongst the German car makers. It's common knowledge within the industry that development for each new model is on average 10%. If you were to combine every single product line across all the brands and analyse them collectively, you will see a 10% improvement from each successive generation. It's important to note that improvements come in the form of technology, quality, cost etc.

There's nothing that i can see in the new S Classe that deviates from the norm. It just simply follows the standard development rate of 10%. I share the same viewpoint with the latest M3/M4.

The only instances where i can see the Germans deviating from this standard practice is through the following:

BMW i3, i8
Porsche Taycan
VW ID3

 

[martinbo]

Have been following this thread and would like to weigh-in on the topic of rate of development amongst the German car makers. It's common knowledge within the industry that development for each new model is on average 10%. If you were to combine every single product line across all the brands and analyse them collectively, you will see a 10% improvement from each successive generation. It's important to note that improvements come in the form of technology, quality, cost etc.

There's nothing that i can see in the new S Classe that deviates from the norm. It just simply follows the standard development rate of 10%. I share the same viewpoint with the latest M3/M4.

The only instances where i can see the Germans deviating from this standard practice is through the following:

BMW i3, i8
Porsche Taycan
VW ID3

One of the best things to see in this thread was a post from you, UCG. I hope you're well.

 

[Sunny]

Have been following this thread and would like to weigh-in on the topic of rate of development amongst the German car makers. It's common knowledge within the industry that development for each new model is on average 10%. If you were to combine every single product line across all the brands and analyse them collectively, you will see a 10% improvement from each successive generation. It's important to note that improvements come in the form of technology, quality, cost etc.

There's nothing that i can see in the new S Classe that deviates from the norm. It just simply follows the standard development rate of 10%. I share the same viewpoint with the latest M3/M4.

The only instances where i can see the Germans deviating from this standard practice is through the following:

BMW i3, i8
Porsche Taycan
VW ID3

I don't know what the % is or if it is easily quantified, but completely agree with the sentiment and the list of cars even. Almost everything else (including the rear seat airbags in S class artist mentioned) is just incremental updates. Nothing groundbreaking.

Won't go down well in this forum, but well, wth, I think, both BMW and Mercedes got tunnel visioned into a state of complacency where they were just too focused on beating the cross country adversary by a few meaningless points on a sales chart - "They have a sedan coupe that sold 2345 more units, we should have coupe sedan. They have a crossover with a sloping roof, here is one with even more sloping roof. They have a big grill, we will go even bigger". Did anyone stop and ask where is the real innovation in all this?

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

I don't know what the % is or if it is easily quantified, but completely agree with the sentiment and the list of cars even. Almost everything else (including the rear seat airbags in S class artist mentioned) is just incremental updates. Nothing groundbreaking.

Won't go down well in this forum, but well, wth, I think, both BMW and Mercedes got tunnel visioned into a state of complacency where they were just too focused on beating the cross country adversary by a few meaningless points on a sales chart - "They have a sedan coupe that sold 2345 more units, we should have coupe sedan. They have a crossover with a sloping roof, here is one with even more sloping roof. They have a big grill, we will go even bigger". Did anyone stop and ask where is the real innovation in all this?

The main thing the German manufacturers do in the recent years is marketing exercises.

 

[manuelf]

Oh well, it must be great then.

I don't think I've ever seen a bad review of a car in a pre-production test. They're a mutually beneficial back-rub.

I don't know, if there have been pre-tests/pre-drives before with a generally negative verdict... but since the whole concept of pre-drives is rather new, there is not much to look back to.
Regarding the specific pre-drive event of the G8x:
- it took place on a race track
- journalists drove G8x and F8x Comp.(which up-to-date was still class benchmark) back to back
- their unisono statement: G8x more planted, more accurate, better turn in, ...

Yes, sure: This pre-test does not replace a detailed instrumented test! As detailed as some of the hardcore magazines are used to do.
For many journalists it might have been especially enlightening as they do rarely track tests and never have the chance of a real back-to-back test.

BUT: There were lots of magazines/journalists with good reputation at this event, which later on had written those verdicts I cited above.
I think there is less likelyhood, that all of a sudden they write something contrary? E.g. " what a let-down is the G8x - much less sporty, agile, performing, ... than its predecessor"

So I tend to follow @dalab here: The outcome of this pre-drive event is rather a positive sign. You can't just wipe that off the table as "favourably slanted articles" in sum.

 

[AndreB]

We can call them 'Sleepy Germans' )

 

[AndreB]

Almost everything else (including the rear seat airbags in S class artist mentioned) is just incremental updates. Nothing groundbreaking.

Let's be honest, the M3/M4 look groundbreaking, the powertrain is dated, has nothing electric in it like e-turbo, eq boost, etc