X3/X4 [Official] 2011 BMW X3

[Cashmere]

underwhelming indeed because its pretty much copy and paste of what we have seen across the range, but definitely leaps and bounds better then the previous gen X3. That had the worst interior ever.

 

[klier]

Nobody thinks Audi is more expensive than M-B or BMW. It's more or less seen as a kind of "against the common thought", more affordable alternative I'd say.

As for what the world see's as the most expensive of the trio, it goes:

1- Mercedes-Benz
2- BMW
3- Audi

Yeah, pretty much. Though with comparable models I'd say BMW is slightly more expensive than MB even, the last few years.
It's just that MB always has crazy cars like SLR, SLS, SL Black Series, SL65, CL65, S65 that make MB the most expensive brand indeed.

 

[footie]

Most people in your family?
For the rest, most people think an Audi is an expensive VW.

Exactly, I think I ain´t know anyone who thinks Audi is more expensive than BMW or Mercedes. But I do know many people who think an A4 isn´t better enough to cost more than a Passat, or that thinks that R8 and TT are the only nice cars from Audi.

I think you both misunderstood what I meant here. I mean that most people believe Audi to be expensive to buy when compared like with like, not the same as people perceiving Audi to be the more expensive (exclusive) of the two brands.

I do believe that for anyone to believe Audi is an expensive VW has very little knowledge in these two brands. Parts share is only really noticeable in the A3, after that the sharing between brands is almost non existence and limited to such things as engines and transmission which is understandable, especially when these items are among the best available.

 

[klier]

^ Not understandable for me. When I buy an expensive A4/A6 I don't want some low Passator Golf to have the same engine and whatnot.

That's Audi's problem. And a big one. MB and BMW make their own stuff, for their own brand only. Unlike Audi, that has the exact same engine as a freaking SKODA.

 

[footie]

^ Not understandable for me. When I buy an expensive A4/A6 I don't want some low Passator Golf to have the same engine and whatnot.

That's Audi's problem. And a big one. MB and BMW make their own stuff, for their own brand only. Unlike Audi, that has the exact same engine as a freaking SKODA.

Things are about to change. In any case, who makes the engines for Mini?

 

[Human]

Things are about to change. In any case, who makes the engines for Mini?

Joint venture between BMW and PSA Citroen (FWD application). BMW does not use these engines in BMW cars.

 

[footie]

Joint venture between BMW and PSA Citroen (FWD application). BMW does not use these engines in BMW cars.

The point I was making was that when a car needs to be competitively priced it's logical to either co-develop or farm out. Whether the 0er does the same is not something I know but it's definitely possible.

Fact is that VAG make all their own engines and a few of their transmissions as well, the only engines which are shared are on the lower end of their models, exceptions being the diesels. Does this fact mean these engines or cars are inferior to their rivals?

 

[K-A]

^ Not understandable for me. When I buy an expensive A4/A6 I don't want some low Passator Golf to have the same engine and whatnot.

That's Audi's problem. And a big one. MB and BMW make their own stuff, for their own brand only. Unlike Audi, that has the exact same engine as a freaking SKODA.

This is true, but unfortunately like what was said:

Things are about to change./QUOTE]

Not only are M-B and BMW talking about "parts-sharing" already, but I read somewhere that M-B will be sharing Engines with Renault/Nissan? And worst of all, THEY WILL BE GIVING THEM THE E-CLASS PLATFORM FOR THE NEXT G-SERIES' & Z & M-SERIES??

If they do that, M-B will never be the same I think. Parts sharing is one thing, but please don't give a lesser brand your bread & butters whole chassis.

 

[footie]

^ Not understandable for me. When I buy an expensive A4/A6 I don't want some low Passator Golf to have the same engine and whatnot.

That's Audi's problem. And a big one. MB and BMW make their own stuff, for their own brand only. Unlike Audi, that has the exact same engine as a freaking SKODA.

You do understand that VAG (unlike BMW) are a major player with multiple brands, the likelihood of parts sharing makes financial sense. BMW have Mini and Rolls, two brands at the complete opposite of the motoring market, if Mini wasn't fwd then I am sure it would have used some of BMW's vast range of engines but I am pretty sure that when the fwd 0er comes along the two brands will share quite a lot in common.

You as an enthusiast don't view things from a financial perspective, but the reality is that BMW, like all other brands, need to tighten the purse strings, which means part and product sharing. The only difference between BMW and VAG is that BMW was slower to realise the potential benefits.

 

[Top Secret]

Not only are M-B and BMW talking about "parts-sharing" already, but I read somewhere that M-B will be sharing Engines with Renault/Nissan? And worst of all, THEY WILL BE GIVING THEM THE E-CLASS PLATFORM FOR THE NEXT G-SERIES' & Z & M-SERIES??

If they do that, M-B will never be the same I think. Parts sharing is one thing, but please don't give a lesser brand your bread & butters whole chassis.

MB already have a history of giving away their platforms and engines to their partners. The Chrysler 300C uses a derivative of the E-Class chassis and suspension, whilst the Crossfire is essentially a rebadged SLK.

Not to mention MB's relationship with the Chinese-owned Korean manufacturer, Ssangyong. Their Musso SUV from a decade ago used Mercedes engines and transmissions, whilst their Chairman luxury sedan was previously based on (and styled after) the W140 S-Class and now the W220 S-Class.

 

[K-A]

Yes, true, but with the 300, they gave them the W124 (or W210) Chassis, keeping them a step behind of course. Also, yeah I knew about the SLK, but that's just an SLK as far as I'm concerned, even sharing a C Chassis I can understand, but by giving away an E Chassis, whether or not it's "more expensive" to construct (which it's not I'm sure), it doesn't do them any favors in remaining an "exclusive" type of Luxury brand. Also, E buyers pay more than G, or Z, or even M buyers do for their cars. To know that the G-Series next to you is riding on the exact same underpinnings, for a lot less money, isn't a great feeling for an "E" owner. Especially since the G is supposed to compete with the C-Class and 3-Series if I'm not mistaken.

I understand it's the sum of the M-B's parts that make it an M-B, and nobody will ever know about the chassis sharing, and it won't make a difference in the big picture.... But still, would be nice if they wouldn't go to those lengths, in a perfect world.

 

[Kowalski]

I wasn't a fan of the old X3 and I'm not a fan of the new X3 either.

 

[footie]

First reviews of the X3 are starting to appear in the UK.

Very promising and it appears that most are placing it up there with the best on offer which is a very good sign.

Will it be classed as best small SUV?

 

[Levi68]

The previous X3 was classed "best small SUV", because it was alone in this category. That is why GLK and Q5 came to take away its thrown. Maybe it will get it back but there are some thing I do not like.

To say the truth I do not like Z4 (E89), X1 (E84) and X3 (F25). For me these cars have the new BMW design, but old technology. Why does X1 have 1 Series E8X interior and not 1 Series F20 interior? Why does X3 (F25) have 3 Series E9X interior and not 3 Series F30 interior? I hope X3 get an updated interior at facelift. I don't like the E8X/E9X control panels and buttons. It just looks cheap. Z4 (E89) does not look as masculin as Z4 (E85/E86). Z4 (E89) is just too feminin.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Why does X3 (F25) have 3 Series E9X interior and not 3 Series F30 interior?

Seeing as you haven't seen the F30 interior how can you possibly comment?

I hope X3 get an updated interior at facelift.

The last X3 didn't get an updated interior at facelift (to the E90) so I don't expect this one to either.

 

[klier]

Will it be classed as best small SUV?

Mid size SUV. X1 is a small SUV. And yes, the best mid size SUV for sure, no need to wait for reviews.

To say the truth I do not like Z4 (E89), X1 (E84) and X3 (F25). For me these cars have the new BMW design, but old technology.

LOL, you have got to be kidding. Seriously. Old technology.....yeah right. X3 even has things like Head Up Display, 8 speed auto box and tech most other brands can only dream of....

 

[PanterroR]

You do understand that VAG (unlike BMW) are a major player with multiple brands, the likelihood of parts sharing makes financial sense. BMW have Mini and Rolls, two brands at the complete opposite of the motoring market, if Mini wasn't fwd then I am sure it would have used some of BMW's vast range of engines but I am pretty sure that when the fwd 0er comes along the two brands will share quite a lot in common.

You as an enthusiast don't view things from a financial perspective, but the reality is that BMW, like all other brands, need to tighten the purse strings, which means part and product sharing.

Well said, fully agree.

The only difference between BMW and VAG is that BMW was slower to realise the potential benefits.

Or they didn't have enough money or capital like VAG to start sooner with it...

 

[footie]

Mid size SUV. X1 is a small SUV. And yes, the best mid size SUV for sure, no need to wait for reviews.

I'm not so sure that it's as clear cut as it usually is for BMW. There are some seriously good contenders for the title, at present I believe many regard either the LandRover Freelander or Audi Q5 as best depending on what role you want your SUV is do. Based on what I believe will be the X3's role I reckon it's closer to the Audi.

Both offer very similar options and size, the X3 will offer the more powerful engine options at present but only Audi will offer a dual clutch transmission.

Should be very close.

 

[Palbay]

First Red Real Life Pic's-F25 X3

First Red RLP's. Enjoy. Thanks. PalBay

 

[zegerman]

Looks a bit cartoonish next to the 7er.