Motor Trend: BMW 535i vs Infinit M37S vs Lexus GS 350 F Sport vs Audi A6

[VoltageLeak]

Hard to take parts of this review seriously, especially the effusive praise of the Lexus's interior. Calling the 350's gaudy menagerie of controls and materials "class leading" in regards to cabin design is laughable. Car and Driver got it right: "Not so impressive: Corolla-grade plastic masquerading as metal on the steering wheel, doors, and dashboard; remarkably unremarkable fonts and graphics; and the huge black hole housing the optional 12.3-inch infotainment screen. And then there’s the endlessly distracting, pad-on-a-stick-on-a-pedestal Remote Touch interface."

 

[K-A]

BMW should just re-release the E60 and they'll win all these tests again.

After driving the F30, I feel it is an about-face by BMW. The "BMWness" about the drive made you feel like they were telling you that they're sorry for making the F10 such a whale of a soft luxury car.

I like driving the F10 over the E60, but I'm an M-B buyer, what that says is that BMW moved into Mercedes territory with the F10, but gave up some BMW territory, where Audi and friggin' LEXUS quickly and happily grabbed upon.

I like it the way it used to be, with M-B being the comfort car and BMW being the sporty car. Now they compete so closely in both aspects, it's almost a toss up, with each retaining a smidgen of their core qualities to hold over the other.

Lexus' new GS is incredibly bland, lifeless, and unappealing to me in terms of exterior, I'd never consider it, but as far as drive, you gotta give it up to Lexus for doing what BMW didn't do this time around in the Midsize segment.

 

[K-A]

Hard to take parts of this review seriously, especially the effusive praise of the Lexus's interior. Calling the 350's gaudy menagerie of controls and materials "class leading" in regards to cabin design is laughable. Car and Driver got it right: "Not so impressive: Corolla-grade plastic masquerading as metal on the steering wheel, doors, and dashboard; remarkably unremarkable fonts and graphics; and the huge black hole housing the optional 12.3-inch infotainment screen. And then there’s the endlessly distracting, pad-on-a-stick-on-a-pedestal Remote Touch interface."

I'm not a huge fan of the GS's interior, however it can be argued that it's class leading by some. A very vocal and almost fanboy-ish member on the BMW Boards who owns an F10 550i, stated that after driving and seeing the GS, he hates the exterior mightily, but said that the GS's interior is "class leading" (his words, not mine).

 

[Guibo]

^Ultimate grip isn't something you can dismiss that easily which was why I suggested that the A6 might feel like its got more understeer without that actually being the case. A car can be slower than another yet feel quicker due to the experience it gives you which might well be what's happening here.

I understand full well the benefits of balance but a well balanced car does not mean its quicker, I'm of the opinion that figures don't lie but that a human being can be fooled into think the opposite to be true.

Who's dismissing ultimate grip? I'm saying you can't know that you've interpreted the data correctly. You also don't know how the skidpad figure is being recorded here: Is it purley steady state (as you seem to think) or is the throttle being manipulated throughout the run to achieve a certain balance for the lowest ET (from which the lateral g figure can be derived)? You don't know. What we do know is that the A6 is shod with the fattest front tires and a square setup; hmm...perhaps to try to quell an inherently understeery setup?? Maybe the worst weight distribution of the group at 55/45 might also be at play here?
Unfortunately for you, we have more than one human being "being fooled" into thinking the A6 feels heavier in the nose. And the number increases even further if we talk about the A7 which shares the A6's underpinnings.
Who here is being fooled into thinking that being more well balanced means it's quicker? Indeed, Motor Trend are saying the exact opposite: Forget the figures which suggest the fastest car (Audi) is the most well balanced because it's not (as confirmed in previous tests). The Audi might excel in a figure-8 test because it just might have more mechanical grip.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Hard to take parts of this review seriously, especially the effusive praise of the Lexus's interior. Calling the 350's gaudy menagerie of controls and materials "class leading" in regards to cabin design is laughable. Car and Driver got it right: "Not so impressive: Corolla-grade plastic masquerading as metal on the steering wheel, doors, and dashboard; remarkably unremarkable fonts and graphics; and the huge black hole housing the optional 12.3-inch infotainment screen. And then there’s the endlessly distracting, pad-on-a-stick-on-a-pedestal Remote Touch interface."

Let me guess, the BMW should of won, right?

 

[Guibo]

Hard to take parts of this review seriously, especially the effusive praise of the Lexus's interior. Calling the 350's gaudy menagerie of controls and materials "class leading" in regards to cabin design is laughable. Car and Driver got it right: "Not so impressive: Corolla-grade plastic masquerading as metal on the steering wheel, doors, and dashboard; remarkably unremarkable fonts and graphics; and the huge black hole housing the optional 12.3-inch infotainment screen. And then there’s the endlessly distracting, pad-on-a-stick-on-a-pedestal Remote Touch interface."

Yet in direct comparison with the A6 3.0T Quattro:
"On the other hand, the GS was tops in driver comfort, with better seats. Interior styling was beyond reproach, materials were princely, and the huge (12.3 inches) nav display  would’ve drawn raves from Mr. Magoo.
...In fact, four driven wheels with bigger footprints helped the Audi prevail in our instrumented testing. But it was a different story in the real world of blind corners and decreasing radii. On mountain roads, the Lexus was frisky and eager to attack corners, while the Audi felt like the two-tonner it is—deliberate and somewhat ponderous by comparison...the GS got our nod in subjective handling. More significant, check the fun-to-drive score."

The Lexus matched the A6 for Interior Fit/Finish and Interior Design.

 

[deity]

Beautiful analog clock. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Really, the epitome of class. Oh.. don't mind some of the IWC's that are in CLS'

 

[Guibo]

Beautiful analog clock. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Really, the epitome of class. Oh.. don't mind some of the IWC's that are in CLS'

Outside of the 55 IWC Ingenieur CLS55s built, which other CLSs have the IWC clock?

 

[tristatez28lt1]

Outside of the 55 IWC Ingenieur CLS55s built, which other CLSs have the IWC clock?

None, but my $5 swatch looks better than that
And whoever is saying that the interior is on the level of the Germans is delusional. Just see for yourself if you have the two next to each other. Sit in an A6 then quickly switch to the GS, there is a WORLD of difference. And again, I'm not biased against Lexus. It's just mind blowing to believe that (having compared the cars in person) the GS is being declared as the winner here. Normally I wouldn't care and having read German magazines a lot, I was always biased for the Japanese as they never seemed to win. However now, being wiser I can clearly see why. There is just a big difference no matter how you put it.

 

[330CIZHP]

I could accept subjective opinions on the design of the interior as some people would prefer one design over the other. Everyone is entitled to it.

But, truly you seem mired in hate for a Lexus being elevated to the level of standing above the rest. No doubt in my mind. You deny it, yet your statements cannot be interpreted any other way.

I sat inside both the A6 and GS350 last month at the international auto show and I cannot see any of the "world's apart" scenario you are creating or form as far as fit, finish, quality, refinement. Something Lexus has always been known for. If you somehow want to believe the A6 is better, you are welcome to believe that as that is your subjective opinion.

I personally have not driven any of these cars (except the older E60 535i) so I am not favoring one or the other. But, at the sametime I am very well accepting of the possibility that Lexus did raise their game with the GS350 to the point where even Motor Trend could not deny them a win, which in my opinion is good since more competition brings better products for the customer.

If you want everyone else to believe that including all of the publications that are pretty much saying the samething (which you seem to be attempting to do since the beginning of this thread), you are indeed dellusional.

But, hey this is 'German car forum'. Why would anyone expect any different??

None, but my $5 swatch looks better than that
And whoever is saying that the interior is on the level of the Germans is delusional. Just see for yourself if you have the two next to each other. Sit in an A6 then quickly switch to the GS, there is a WORLD of difference. And again, I'm not biased against Lexus. It's just mind blowing to believe that (having compared the cars in person) the GS is being declared as the winner here. Normally I wouldn't care and having read German magazines a lot, I was always biased for the Japanese as they never seemed to win. However now, being wiser I can clearly see why. There is just a big difference no matter how you put it.

 

[Gianclaudio]

Com'on guys, is fück!ng Motortrend for God's sake, one of the worst magazines out there (along Car and Driver and Audiexpress, sorry, Autoexpress)

Why so much debate.... from Lexus lovers and BMW haters trying to laugh at BMW's 2nd place on this stupid magazine, to the same case with BMW lovers who can't withstand a Bimmer not winning a stupid test on this stupid magazine (yes, I'm over using the word stupid )

And also, I'm not very kind to Audi, but those critics to A6's not justifing the price tage, while I'm sure I've readed high praises about A6's interior on this same idiotic magazine before and if my memory doesn't fail, I even saw the A7's wood venners (which are the same as in A6) being noted in an article about the "10 cool features of the 2011" or something like that. Which shows how much erratic, non sense, incongruent, pathetic, completely rubbish and useless Motor Trend is

Regards

 

[deity]

Outside of the 55 IWC Ingenieur CLS55s built, which other CLSs have the IWC clock?

That wasn't the point. If you're a journalist and you're going to make a big fuss about the clock, it had better be something that looks decent. In this case, its a nice combo of cheap and tacky. Checky.

 

[VoltageLeak]

Let me guess, the BMW should of won, right?

Non sequitur. Me pointing out that MT is on crack by declaring the 350's cabin "class leading" when said class includes the A6/A7 does not make me a BMW fanboy. I had an F10 5 series as a loaner for 3 days and couldn't wait to get out of it and back into my M3. Not my cup of tea at all.

 

[Guibo]

None, but my $5 swatch looks better than that

So in other words, it is an incredibly high (and unrealistic, even for the rest of the MB lineup) standard by which to judge the Lexus. I think by most any realistic lighting and from any realistic vantage point, that clock looks OK.

It's not some ornate piece as you'd find on an Aston or Porsche's Sport Chrono, but it fits with the sense of minimalism Lexus seemed to strive for with their overall interior design. Somewhat old-school German in the simplicity of design, IMO.

That wasn't the point. If you're a journalist and you're going to make a big fuss about the clock, it had better be something that looks decent. In this case, its a nice combo of cheap and tacky. Checky.

The journalists aren't going to be looking at it from that vantage point, with obvious image manipulation that doesn't render a realistic view of that piece. Not sure the IWC edition CLSs @ $120k a piece have anything to do with this test...

 

[Deckhook]

@Guibo,

Many call me an Audi fan through and through which I am having owned several and yes I am saying its a feeling of nose heaviness that driving them gives you but I also know that I can take corners just as quickly in them as any BMW I have ever owned. You talk about the square tyre setup they use as an explanation of their superior grip but I'm sure if the other felt it offered them an advantage they would all be doing it but the don't and in any case we shouldn't be talking about anything other than factory spec.

Now if you were to say they dont prefer Audi's balance then I will concede that point because that's purely about the experience driving these cars gives.......is that what you are saying?

 

[Tumbo]

Its really amazing how fast the new A6 3.0T is. It's seriously fast! So fast, that the S6 must be ridiculously fast? Any test of the S6 yet?

 

[K-A]

I don't see the problem with that clock? Looks pretty simple and elegant to me. I'm not a watch person in the least so I don't really have a strong taste toward certain pieces one way or another.

 

[klier]

Somewhat old-school German in the simplicity of design, IMO.

Whaa? That Lexus has no German design. Nowhere. It's Japanese mixed with American taste, and it's ghastly.

@Guibo,

Many call me an Audi fan through and through which I am having owned several and yes I am saying its a feeling of nose heaviness that driving them gives you but I also know that I can take corners just as quickly in them as any BMW I have ever owned.

We're talking real cars man, not the scale models you have above your bed.

Its really amazing how fast the new A6 3.0T is. It's seriously fast! So fast, that the S6 must be ridiculously fast? Any test of the S6 yet?

Haha, yea, the S6 is out of this world fast [rolls_eyes]
Care to keep this on topic? Or do you want to start about the magical S6 competing with a 6 cylinder diesel by BMW?

 

[Deckhook]

^Unlike you I have provided a list of previously owned cars so my opinion holds more water than someone who doesn't list any cars what so ever and BTW I have owned all the cars on that list. Based on my experience those Audis cope in corners just fine thankyou very much.

 

[Mr Robert]

Lexus winning in a US test really can't come as a surprise. Anyhow, good job by the ugly duckling.