Mercedes HP, Make or Break?

[LaArtist]

Il just stick with that .........
this thread is rather childish
that doenst mean that I dont want u to keep making childish threads

lol my friend.. due to limitation in english..i dont understand your point..
are you agreeing with me.. or dissing me..
please explain so that i can respond in a proper way

 

[Matt]

he agrees with the statement he quoted from you, Artist.

 

[LaArtist]

^ohh cool.. thnx for clearing that up

 

[Merc1]

No of course superior hp doesn't make a Mercedes. A Mercedes isn't even usually the most powerful car in a given class, its a hit or miss affair. As others have pointed out, the AMG cars usually outpower everything, but not the regular models. For the moment the S550 outpowers the class as does the S600 (don't expect anyone to topple the 600 though). The E550 outpowers the class. So when it comes to V8 and V12 cars this may be true, now....this wasn't the case just last year.

Now with the 6-cylinder cars Mercedes is merely competitive in most cases and behind in some. The C350 doesn't come close to the new 335i. The E350 does outpower the 530i/A6 3.2, but that will soon change when the 535i comes back (loved that designation on the early 90's 5er).

So really Mercedes true hp advantage rests at the top of their range which is where they're more successful compared to BMW and vice versa.

So no HP doesn't not make a Benz, but it is now an intergral part of of the lure for the V8, V12, AMG cars.

M

 

[Merc1]

In further thinking about their respective ranges, a little perspective on hp from the U.S. market.

1. 335i - 300hp
2. C350 - 268hp
3. A4 3.2 - 255hp

1. E350 - 268hp
2. A6 3.2 & 530i - 255hp (tie)

1. S550 - 382hp
2. 750Li - 360hp
3. A8L 4.2 - 350hp

1. S600 - 510hp
2. A8L W12 - 450hp
3. 760Li - 438hp

1. E63 - 507hp
2. M5 - 500hp
3. S6 - 435hp

1. X5 4.8i & Q7 4.2 - 350hp (tie)
2. ML500 - 302hp

1. Q7 3.6 - 280hp
2. ML350 - 268hp
3. X5 3.0i - 260hp

1. SL55 - 510hp
2. M6 - 500hp

1. S63 - 517hp
2. S8 - 450hp

1. 328i - 230hp
2. C280 - 228hp
3. C230 - 201hp
4. A4 2.0t - 200hp

1. RS4 - 414hp
2. S4 - 340hp
3. M3 - 333hp

1. 335i Coupe - 300hp
2. CLK350 - 268hp

1. CLK550 - 382hp
2. 650i - 360hp

1. SL550 - 382hp
2. 650 Cabriolet - 360hp

1. Q7 4.2 - 350hp
2. GL450 - 335hp

1. SLK350 - 268hp
2. Z4 3.0Si - 255hp
3. TT 3.2 - 252hp (projected)

1. SLK55 - 355hp
2. Z4 M Roadster - 330hp

1. M6 Cabrio - 500hp
2. CLK63 Cabrio - 475hp

M

 

[CAR-NNOSSEUR]

No of course superior hp doesn't make a Mercedes. A Mercedes isn't even usually the most powerful car in a given class, its a hit or miss affair. As others have pointed out, the AMG cars usually outpower everything, but not the regular models. For the moment the S550 outpowers the class as does the S600 (don't expect anyone to topple the 600 though). The E550 outpowers the class. So when it comes to V8 and V12 cars this may be true, now....this wasn't the case just last year.

Now with the 6-cylinder cars Mercedes is merely competitive in most cases and behind in some. The C350 doesn't come close to the new 335i. The E350 does outpower the 530i/A6 3.2, but that will soon change when the 535i comes back (loved that designation on the early 90's 5er).

So really Mercedes true hp advantage rests at the top of their range which is where they're more successful compared to BMW and vice versa.

So no HP doesn't not make a Benz, but it is now an intergral part of of the lure for the V8, V12, AMG cars.

M

Thanks for the info MERC1, however I was only talking
about the AMG range, I forgot to enter it when creating
thread! I apologies for this error a few post back. Thanks
for the info anyway!

 

[MoSs]

Everyone know's Mercedes is the king of HP, so I was wondering if it's because they need it to be able to compete with the likes of BMW & Audi who offer cars
almost capable of matching them with alot less power.
Do you feel that Mercedes would still be the king of straight line performance if only offering simular HP as it's rivals?

Who said they offer more horsepower than BMW and Audi ?? They do offer a larger displacement , but not more horespower , unless you're talking about the V12 Bi TURBOs , but that's a whole different segment that BMW and Audi seem to not aim for ... But other than that E55 is tied to the M5 and the soon coming RS6 will have pretty much the same hp numbers , the M3 and the C32 also had similar power numbers .... So what's the deal here ?

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Well MB loses on racetrack even when they have more power and torque than the sportier opposition, so on equall HP (unless we're talking about exceptions) MB will be even further back.

 

[LaArtist]

^on track yes..but that is not the issue here..

 

[cawimmer430]

I'm not going to vote on this poll because to me personally it's a yes and no. Yes because while mercedes is a luxury car company they sure as hell can build a race car (dtm). That is not the problem here, the problem is that Mercedes above all else is a pure LUXURY company. That is their sole business. And that is the exact reason why it's also a no. If they wanted to compete with the rest they would have to sacrifice some luxury for it and they are not willing to do that because otherwise they are no different than AUDI or BMW. Even in today's highly competitive german car segment, where almost everything is equal, the comfort and luxury of the Mercedes is still not surpassed. There still isn't a ride-comfort like a mercedes.

-Narutoramen

Well said. I agree completely.

 

[MoSs]

Well MB loses on racetrack even when they have more power and torque than the sportier opposition, so on equall HP (unless we're talking about exceptions) MB will be even further back.

If you are speaking of straight line I dont agree with you , with epual horsepower MB is 90 % of the time faster , I dont know why , but I know they are high in torque numbers and build quicker trannys than everyone else , take the ENZO vs SLK55 (SLR ENGINE) , correct me if im wrong , but the SLK is heavier than the enzo , the enzo has a V12 with a somewhat 30 hp advantage ..... What made that SLK quicker ?? The answer to that would be that sensational 7GTRONIC modified by AMG ....

MB used to lag in track performance but now they are close enough , The new AMGs are far more athletic , they cut off the greecy weight and extra torque and more responsive braking potentials , three keys that make positive differences on the track ...

 

[ADGvast]

although MBs do have high HP but they also have larger cylinder capacity or displacement compare to other.... so just depend on how you look at it.

 

[Deutsch]

MB doesn't need horsepower to resonate in the minds of enthusiast and consumers, they've done what very few other brands could achieve and that is having created a brand that is in itself, an icon. Besides that, only the very wealthy buy AMG cars, and then the number of horsepower is not so big of a buying factor as it is an added plus. The horsepower wars have only increased MB's profile, not to mention the fanfare.

 

[MoSs]

MB doesn't need horsepower to resonate in the minds of enthusiast and consumers, they've done what very few other brands could achieve and that is having created a brand that is in itself, an icon. Besides that, only the very wealthy buy AMG cars, and then the number of horsepower is not so big of a buying factor as it is an added plus. The horsepower wars have only increased MB's profile, not to mention the fanfare.

I dont think you should compare MB hp numbers to a CORVETTE or CHRYSLER or any other cheap brand , turn the circles arround and compare MB to FERRARI or BENTLEY or LAMBORGHINI .... They dont seem to have achieved bigger numbers than MB , and MB is still way more affordable and less exclusive ....

 

[Deutsch]

I dont think you should compare MB hp numbers to a CORVETTE or CHRYSLER or any other cheap brand , turn the circles arround and compare MB to FERRARI or BENTLEY or LAMBORGHINI .... They dont seem to have achieved bigger numbers than MB , and MB is still way more affordable and less exclusive ....

I don't get it. Secondly, I didn't compare any other brands to MB, I just made the point that MB doesn't need HP to sell cars, there are much bigger reasons why people buy MB's over other cars.

 

[CAR-NNOSSEUR]

I don't get it. Secondly, I didn't compare any other brands to MB, I just made the point that MB doesn't need HP to sell cars, there are much bigger reasons why people buy MB's over other cars.

Listen, the question posed isn't whether or not MB needs
huge engines to sell, more so whether or not MB needs huge HP and torque in order to compete with the likes of
Audi & BMW performance wise!

 

[ALI]

I don't get it. Secondly, I didn't compare any other brands to MB, I just made the point that MB doesn't need HP to sell cars, there are much bigger reasons why people buy MB's over other cars.

YES , that's exactly why AMGs sell like hot cakes ... Because it's the best combination of luxury and sportiness ...

 

[CAR-NNOSSEUR]

YES , that's exactly why AMGs sell like hot cakes ... Because it's the best combination of luxury and sportiness ...

Best combo is rather opinionated, I don't see young adults driving to many AMG's but more so much older adults worried about name recognition!

 

[ALI]

Best combo is rather opinionated, I don't see young adults driving to many AMG's but more so much older adults worried about name recognition!

Im 23 , why are you making me feel old ?? LOL ....Some old members here from GERMANCARFANS here know ive been an AMG driver since I was 19 ... My uncle is 26 and he has an E55 , my cousin is 25 and he has an E55 as well , a friend of mine has a W210 E55 and he's 23 ...... Age is not a matter with AMG buyers ...

 

[CAR-NNOSSEUR]

Im 23 , why are you making me feel old ?? LOL ....Some old members here from GERMANCARFANS here know ive been an AMG driver since I was 19 ... My uncle is 26 and he has an E55 , my cousin is 25 and he has an E55 as well , a friend of mine has a W210 E55 and he's 23 ...... Age is not a matter with AMG buyers ...

Ali you and your friends and family are the exception IMO, the majority of young people can't afford AMG's, it's simple mathmatics. I'm also the exception, however the majority of AMG owners I see are in their forties & fifties, I'm only speaking on what I see in the NJ,NY, and PA. My pop (59) drives a S55 AMG, uncle (55) drives a C55 AMG and E55 AMG.