Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?

[Design FIRST]

The question is what’s the plan, what do they want to be.

I agree. I fail to see any sort of adherence to a cohesive, sustainable plan. Especially perrtaining to M-B and VAG's European operations. That being said, VAG is doing some very interesting things with various Chinese partners and M-B AMG's focus on axial flux e-motors and innovative battery tech looks promising. And innovartion regarding the introduction of the traditional alluring visceral elements of driving such as sound, vibration, etc, in BEVs/REEVs may also win over some of the hearts of more digital affine car fans.

If they want to produce sporty EVs in huge numbers they need to lower the price, to be competitive with the Chinese.

Yes-German manufacturers stand accused of exploitative cash grabbing and this, by way of Chinese manufacturers, is biting them in the ass bigtime.

Luxury EVs are especially in China way cheaper than traditional luxury cars.

A segment in which we may soon see a shift from the current "China only" marketing strategies of, for example, VAG. There has been a bit of innuendo that a possible Audi A8 successor will now be developed by SAIC AUDI. And judging by the very production-near Volkswagen ID.ERA large SUV REEV concept, jointly developed with SAIC Volkswagen, this vehicle could generate a lot of interest in the EU as well as North America.

Or are they going on the small but luxury ICE Sportscars road.

As far as genuine smaller sportcars go, ICE powertrains are certainly legitimate for small volume manufacturers and cottage fabricators IMHO.

My personal opinion, the EU is currently very successful destroying their car industry with their stupid EV mandates. Congratulations.

Oh, the Eurocrats as well as some administrations of various EU member states are so woefully inept , dilettantic and untrustworthy on this subject that it is actually physically painful at times.

 

[TATE]

As things currently stand, it appears that BMW AG is doing the best job of navigating the extremely treacherous currents that are haunting Germany's automotive industry.

As for M-B, the future remains difficult to predict. Should the new MB.EA generation vehicles attract nothing more than a lame response by consumers, the chances of a most significant upheaval of management and corporate structures would seem inevitable. Will this future equate to a restoration of genuine substance reflected in it's products ? Will this future leave M-B staring at a rearview mirror, something that Porsche AG appears to be doing, rather than moving boldly forwards in a rapidly transforming industry ?

We shall see.

Don’t be so negative
BMW is going to have a very hard future as well

 

[Design FIRST]

Nowadays I think they expanded too much and lost that exclusive lure they once had. In my opinion they have too many products/model lines. If they want to move forward they need to integrate some of them (like Taycan and Panamera) into a combined ICE/EV platform and also the other models like Macan, Cayenne, Boxster, Cayman and then eventually 911.

I fully agree with your point regarding the integration of the Taycan and Panamera. With a highly modular architecture that can accomodate electric, range-extended electric and ICE Hybrid powertrains.

As for the anticipated "K1" large crossover: That has apparently been placed on the backburner. Waaay back. Does Porsche really need this sort of vehicle after all ?

It has been recently reported that Porsche AG will offer the successors to the current Boxster/Cayman in BOTH BEV and ICE form, the latter being more more sports oriented and specialized. It will be interesting to see how they will execute this. Nearly identical exteriors ? Personally, I absolutely love the look of the Cayman prototypes. Is the underlying architecture far more modular than many had been led to believe ?

 

[Rolf]

It has been recently reported that Porsche AG will offer the successors to the current Boxster/Cayman in BOTH BEV and ICE form, the latter being more more sports oriented and specialized. It will be interesting to see how they will execute this. Nearly identical exteriors ? Personally, I absolutely love the look of the Cayman prototypes. Is the underlying architecture far more modular than many had been led to believe ?

I love the Cayman and Boxster, they are in my opinion the perfect size of sports car and with their mid engine layout they bring dynamic abilities and driving enjoyment to the lower end of the sports car spectrum that is on a par with much more expensive sports cars.

I would hope they keep the ICE version and also add the EV so they can satisfy the market for those who love engine noise and those that want to save the environment but still have an exciting driving and looking sports car.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I love the Cayman and Boxster, they are in my opinion the perfect size of sports car and with their mid engine layout they bring dynamic abilities and driving enjoyment to the lower end of the sports car spectrum that is on a par with much more expensive sports cars.

I would hope they keep the ICE version and also add the EV so they can satisfy the market for those who love engine noise and those that want to save the environment but still have an exciting driving and looking sports car.

Electric sports cars will not be as popular as ICE. Not for several years at least. But abandoning development would be foolishness. So they should continue to make them for no other reason than to keep the technology moving forwards.

No matter what people think, global warming is real and fossil fuels will run out. These regulations will continue to exist and eventually ICE cars will go the way of the thoroughbred race horse. And these companies need to be ready for that when it comes.

 

[klier]

Don’t be so negative

And yet in the very next sentence you become negative too. How does that work?

BMW is going to have a very hard bright future as well

 

[Design FIRST]

Electric sports cars will not be as popular as ICE. Not for several years at least. But abandoning development would be foolishness. So they should continue to make them for no other reason than to keep the technology moving forwards.

Spot on !

*E*ventually ICE cars will go the way of the thoroughbred race horse. And these companies need to be ready for that when it comes.

Spot on once again.

 

[klier]

Electric sports cars will not be as popular as ICE. Not for several years at least. But abandoning development would be foolishness. So they should continue to make them for no other reason than to keep the technology moving forwards.

They are continuing to make them! The upcoming Boxter/Cayman 718 are going to have the inline flat 6. The next 911 will too.

These regulations will continue to exist and eventually ICE cars will go the way of the thoroughbred race horse. And these companies need to be ready for that when it comes.

The regulations as they are right now are not going to continue to exist, 100% sure. We'll be driving ICE for a very long time (alongside BEV).

 

[Design FIRST]

One should also not forget that there are genuine car fans that simply like the characteristics provided in BEV powertrains. And actually find them more compelling than what ICE powertrains offer.

Anecdotal: A sibling and an acquaintance have migrated from ICE to BEV vehicles over the course of the past couple of years. Both maintain that they won't be returning to the ICE camp if they can help it. My personal, albeit quite limited, experiences with BEV vehicles have left me impressed. These experiences involve vehicles such as SMART ForTwo-E, SMART #1 BRABUS, KIA EV6, VW ID. 4 and Audi RS etron GT. At my age, I enjoy the torque rich, smooth, quiet refinement provided by e-motors-but think that I could also appreciate the rumbling, V8 mimicking soundscape provided synthetically, as long as it's done well and finds itself in an appropriate sort of vehicle. Those recent AMG.EA 4 door GT prototype videos blew me away, in fact. Synthetically capturing the sound and feel of a flat 6 or an inline 5 should be quite possible as well.

 

[Rolf]

They are continuing to make them! The upcoming Boxter/Cayman 718 are going to have the inline flat 6. The next 911 will too.



The regulations as they are right now are not going to continue to exist, 100% sure. We'll be driving ICE for a very long time (alongside BEV).

As per Autocar the ICE versions of the Cayman and Boxster will use the new hybrid flat six from the new 911 GTS.

Good for that!!

Porsche might put the 911's flat six into its new Cayman and Boxster | Autocar

German firm confirms "top" versions of 718s will continue in EV strategy pivot

www.autocar.co.uk

 

[Design FIRST]

We'll be driving ICE for a very long time (alongside BEV).

I suppose that this is a safe bet.

What I wonder: Will there be some innovative breakthrough in BEV technology within the course of the next few years that constitutes that "technological plateau" that conveys the message: "This is as good as it can possibly get for the next 5-10 years. And this is JUST SO DAMN GOOD !" ? And hence sending consumers into the BEV camp in droves unthinkable today, leaving the floor dropping out of ICE unit sales ?

Shit happens, ya know...

 

[Rolf]

In my honest opinion the 2 main factors for people not going in huge numbers to buy EV cars in the EU and other western countries are the high prices and the availability of charging network together with the charging time/range. It will take another 3 to 5 years before we could see a shift in the positive direction for European car makers, with VW and other budget brands bringing out lower cost (20K Euros or less) small EV cars with 800V and at least 200kw charging for their 45kwhr batteries which could allow 10% to 80% charging times of 20min or less. If the onslaught of the new Chinese EV models were allowed in Europe and other countries without the tariff charges and lower prices then the changeover to EV's would happen sooner. The expansion of charging stations should be happening on a larger scale to also make this happen, but the EU is not providing enough incentives for car makers or other charging companies to increase this expansion.

 

[Swissbob]

They are continuing to make them! The upcoming Boxter/Cayman 718 are going to have the inline flat 6. The next 911 will too.



The regulations as they are right now are not going to continue to exist, 100% sure. We'll be driving ICE for a very long time (alongside BEV).

I agree with you 100%.