SLS (C197) Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG (spy shots & info)

[Pagani]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

I believe we are fusing together projects that are separate, in MB's future. A few months back, several magazines reported on the SLR successor, purported to be endowed with as much as 1000 horses. Experts on all these articles said that MB was going to go more hardcore on their next supercar. This must be separate from the SL-based alternative, which would be what the CLK BS is to the CLK line. This makes sense as well, as it allows for the regular, luxury and sport SL line to keep MB core customers happy, and offer a stripped down wild card that would compete with the more focused competition. I hope the hardcore SL though is a closed-top coupe, ala Z4.

Both these products make sense. The first would continue the supercar tradition, which would be senseless to back off of now for MB. The later is a fairly inexpensive reengineering job of a regular production mercedes (the next SL). I believe we will see both these models in the near future, and I could not be more excited about them both.

 

[Merc1]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

Super SL!
Mercedes racing arm readies lightweight road car

Mercedes is planning a switch to aluminum bodywork for two vital new sports cars, a move that mirrors Jaguar’s and Audi’s adoption of the lightweight material.

Both the SLC, the company’s new flagship supercar, and the next-generation SL will switch to alloy, a move that will improve handling, ride, performance and fuel economy.

The SLC, an Audi R8 fighter, will be the first to see light of day around 2010, followed within two years by the SL. Both cars will be front-engined rear-drivers and will share key components such as engines, gearboxes, axles and electrical systems. But the similarities will end there.

The SLC will be a lower-volume flagship supercar, built at a new factory under construction in Germany by HWA, a new company set up by Hans Werner Aufrecht, one of the cofounders of AMG, now a Mercedes subsidiary. HWA oversees the Mercedes DTM racing program from its workshops in Affalterbach on the outskirts of Stuttgart.

Although the SLC won’t be built in Mercedes’ Stuttgart home, the W197 project is under the close control of Mercedes engineers.

Built on a bespoke, welded-aluminum spaceframe, the SLC will be a test bed for the new technology, similar to the BMW Z8 that pioneered the frame used by Roll-Royce.

Two styling proposals are under consideration, one a retro design inspired by the iconic 1950s 300SLR racer, the other a thoroughly modern avant-garde design. The SLR-inspired design is said to feature an updated version of the original car’s hallmark gullwing doors.

Although previous reports have suggested the SLC will be clad in carbon-fiber panels, AutoWeek has learned that in addition to the chassis, the bodywork also will be aluminum.

With the SLC positioned as a sporty but high-quality supercar, it is likely to borrow the most powerful, AMG-tuned engines from the next SL, codenamed R231. That suggests a choice of V8 and V12 engines, with and without forced induction.

The new series of 6.0-liter V8s, for example, will feature twin turbochargers and more than 600 hp. The next-generation V12 could easily push the 700-hp barrier.

Production numbers are relatively high for a supercar—some 4000 to 5000 annually, we’re told. But with sales channeled through Mercedes’ extensive global dealer network, that’s a handful of cars per year per dealer, which means the SLC should easily command a price in excess of $150,000.

McLaren also in Mercedes supercar mix

While HWA in Germany readies its front-engined SLC, AutoWeek has learned that a second Mercedes supercar project is also on full boil—at McLaren in England. Shown in this illustration, the Mercedes-McLaren is a mid-engined, carbon-fiber-bodied car codenamed P11. Rumors suggest McLaren plans a range of cars based on the P11, which is due in 2010. McLaren has declined to comment on the project.

McLaren first began tinkering with the car, intended as a follow-up to the legendary F1 road car, in 2004, when F1 designer Gordon Murray developed a prototype called the P8 (“Let the Games Begin,” AW, Feb. 23, 2004).

Murray has since left McLaren Cars to form his own design firm (News, May 7), but the P8 project has continued, despite a series of fits and starts coinciding with the overhaul of Mercedes management in Germany. Rumors circulated that the project had been killed. But McLaren apparently has continued to invest in development of the car, reportedly with the support of some deep-pocketed investors, and now plans to bring the P11 to production at about the same time as the HWA SLC. Both cars likely will draw on the same Mercedes AMG engine supply. —BOB GRITZINGER


Super SL! - AutoWeek

AutoWeek sure seems to think they know something here. I wonder what Mercedes will do if both HWA and McLaren come up with stellar design/proposals?

M

 

[bum-man]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

Built on a bespoke, welded-aluminum spaceframe, I think that answers the question to whether it will be based on the R231's chassis. Good stuff.

 

[GTA45E]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

If Mercedes AMG is serious about those engines than the currant Bi-Turbo in the S65 should be dropped, I already indicated than the AMG engines usually have a 4-year life span (with exceptions,) we won`t be seing anymore modified Mercedes engines from AMG. This is going to be a whole new ball game of engines.

I believe that new V12 should be a 6.8liter to suggest the 6.8liter of 1979 from the S-Class of 1979. That engine won races for Mercedes-Benz!

Now if MB would let AMG create their own transmissions that would be super!!

 

[Merc1]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

I don't know about the next AMG V12, but the V12 in the 600 cars facelift should be a 6.5L V12 with like 550hp and 575lb-ft of torque. I like the way S650, SL650 and CL650 sound. I think AMG is going to drop the V12 too, there is no need if they V8 is going to make 600-750hp.

M

 

[RICHBOY]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

HWA, not McLaren, will build Mercedes’ next great sports car.


By Matthias Pfannmüller • Photo Illustration by Larson
July 2007





There have been rumors for quite some time of a McLaren/Mercedes-Benz split from building high-end road cars. In fact, after the ambitious but not-very-successful Mercedes SLR McLaren, shared plans for a smaller (and more affordable) super-sports model were abandoned.
Instead, Mercedes’ DTM partner—HWA—has been chosen to develop and build the baby SLR. This new SLC will be based on the next-generation SL (code-named R231, scheduled for 2011), a front/mid-engine car with rear-wheel drive, in contrast to earlier speculation of a smaller mid-engine Mercedes-McLaren. A show car is under construction and will be displayed at Geneva next spring.
You might be familiar with AMG, Mercedes’ tuning division, but what is HWA? Actually, it’s very similar. The letters stand for Hans-Werner Aufrecht, a former Mercedes engineer and co-founder of AMG in 1967, which itself stands for Aufrecht, Melcher (a business partner with Aufrecht, who later resigned) and Grossaspach (the village name of AMG’s first headquarters near Stuttgart).
In 1998, Mercedes took over 51 percent of AMG. But AMG’s motorsports activities, engine development and special vehicle department were left to Aufrecht, who immediately founded HWA. In early 2005, Mercedes took over Aufrecht’s remaining 49-percent stake in AMG. Now, HWA employs 224 people and takes care of Mercedes’ special operations, such as the works DTM team. A little-known fact, it was HWA that built such limited-production series models for Mercedes as the road-going CLK GTR and the CLK DTM AMG.
And though HWA will develop and build Mercedes’ new sports car, the name will read Mercedes-Benz SLC AMG…not HWA.
The SLC will have a fixed carbon roof to lower the center of gravity and gullwing doors to link it with the SLR. The SLC will be a 2-seater, although one of the design goals is that the car provide more than adequate space for two people and their luggage.
The SLC engine is well known and respected for its performance— the 6.2-liter AMG V-8. In the SLC, it will be modified to pump out 700 bhp. Even more punch will arrive when a twin-turbo version makes its debut later. HWA is aiming for a price of around $200,000, and only 500 cars will be produced in total.

 

[LaArtist]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

OMG that ps is SICK.. im in love..
cant wait..to see more

PS
I dont liek that part that said extra room..and luggage room..
we dont want that in a crazy sports car..they are going SLR once again..
i hope this will not be the case..and the cars sportyness should not be compromisd for luxury or comfort..

 

[MercedesMeN]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

Wow!!!!!!!wonderfull Excellent!!!!!!

 

[GTA45E]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

L.

 

[PanterroR]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

The currant V12

GTA, what's with that currant $h!t that i read in almost every post of yours???

Either my English sucks or something else, but they've teach me in the school that we say current...

What's the deal?

 

[GTA45E]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

Tycoon, thats an inappropriate responce.
I make typos here quit often (and so do others) I only have 5-minutes to check every thread and about 3-minutes to post.


On top of that it`s Splenditenes.. not GTA.

The post seemed to offend you so I deleted it. lOl

 

[Nuvo]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

lOl, I think Tycoon has spun this thread in another direction with a single typo... bad! lets get back on track.


In responce to Merc1
I think what GTA was trying to say is the V12 in the S600 is a 5.5iter twin turbo unit and that MB wouldn`t jump the gun (two liters) to create a 6.5liter unit. It should be a 6.0liter n/a engine with 520hp mated to a modified G7 tranny.

Whatever the case the next S600 engine shouldn`t surpass the 6.2liter M156 V8 with ultimate power numbers or size.

 

[Pagani]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

Actually, I think the next S600 should have at least 550 horses and the boatload of torque that comes with it, and the 65s should move into the 700+ power range, possibly with direct injection and 4 valves per cylinder technology. I think though that the S600 should be normally aspirated, whereas the S65 should be twin-turboed.

 

[Merc1]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

lOl, I think Tycoon has spun this thread in another direction with a single typo... bad! lets get back on track.


In responce to Merc1
I think what GTA was trying to say is the V12 in the S600 is a 5.5iter twin turbo unit and that MB wouldn`t jump the gun (two liters) to create a 6.5liter unit. It should be a 6.0liter n/a engine with 520hp mated to a modified G7 tranny.

Whatever the case the next S600 engine shouldn`t surpass the 6.2liter M156 V8 with ultimate power numbers or size.

I see. Well I was thinking that they'd have to go to at least 6.5L for the next V12 if they're going the naturally aspirated route, but of course if it is still going to be a turbo then of course not. If they do to NA they'll have to up the size quite a bit to get anywhere near the torque level of today's 600 cars. I don't think we'll see the new V12 until facelift time, say 2010.

M

 

[Merc1]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

Actually, I think the next S600 should have at least 550 horses and the boatload of torque that comes with it, and the 65s should move into the 700+ power range, possibly with direct injection and 4 valves per cylinder technology. I think though that the S600 should be normally aspirated, whereas the S65 should be twin-turboed.

Yeah that is what I was thinking, if they're going to keep the 65 cars. I don't see the current S-Class being able to handle 700hp though unless they do some Black Series level re-engineering, which they might you never know.

M

 

[PanterroR]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

Tycoon, thats an inappropriate responce.
I make typos here quit often (and so do others) I only have 5-minutes to check every thread and about 3-minutes to post.


On top of that it`s Splenditenes.. not GTA.

The post seemed to offend you so I deleted it. lOl

Haha! I guess i own you apology, so here it is: Sorry, i apologize. Didn't mean to sound like an @$$, it was just a question, but obviously i've asked it in a wrong way. Sorry, my bad.

Just for the record, you always, always type it like that.

Sorry, for going OT, guys, not more.

Back on topic.

 

[Nuvo]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

I see. Well I was thinking that they'd have to go to at least 6.5L for the next V12 if they're going the naturally aspirated route, but of course if it is still going to be a turbo then of course not. If they do to NA they'll have to up the size quite a bit to get anywhere near the torque level of today's 600 cars. I don't think we'll see the new V12 until facelift time, say 2010.

M

I agree with that, Thay would have to up the size.. the 5.5liter V12 puts out 612lb-ft of torque with the turbos. Lets say MB will stick with the turbos. The new engine I believe would still be a 6.0liter DOHC unit with about 530hp. The 5.5liter SOHC unit puts out 517PS (about 510hp) 550hp is simply too much of a jump
and if MB upped the size to 6.5liters that would make the S65 "useless" and also surpass it in size.

The S65 engine is a SOHC 5.9liter unit.

On top of that the name would have to change to S650 like the S550.

I wouldn`t want that to happen. Look how long Mercedes kept the S500 name. It`s been more than 20 years or more. Thay only changed it for the American market.

 

[GTA45E]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

Haha! I guess i own you apology, so here it is: Sorry, i apologize. Didn't mean to sound like an @$$, it was just a question, but obviously i've asked it in a wrong way. Sorry, my bad.

lOl, no sweat man.. it was like you blew a CAM shaft just telling me about a loose scew.. I was thinking what does this guy blow when he has to change his babys diapier, a crank case?!

 

[PanterroR]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

LOL...

 

[bmer]

Re: Benz "SLC" prototype spy shots

That PS looks awesome! It looks much better than the SLR.

and the cars sportyness should not be compromisd for luxury or comfort..

Still, it has to be comfortable enough for the MB star so some compromises have to be made.