Nah, I ain't even mad bro.. I stand by what I said months ago...
Seems now however Daimler knew they're going to get mugged for it and took the easy way out.
Hot! MB, BMW, VW, Audi & Porsche cartel exposed - report
- Thread starter EnI
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- audi conspiracy porsche
Nah, I ain't even mad bro.. I stand by what I said months ago...
Seems now however Daimler knew they're going to get mugged for it and took the easy way out.
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
How can you know about the shares?
bum-man
Driving Dynamics Pro
hovabongZA
Tire Trailblazer
Reading up more on the story and Daimler are real pu**ies !
klier
Premium
So much this. Hilarious because it's so freaking sad and pathetic.
Hahahah, no. MB lacks BMW's engine building skills.
But they always try nicely. And sometimes that requires a cheat here and there.
Cashmere
RPM Ruler
Last 4 paragraphs are particularly interesting
EU regulators raid auto giant BMW in German cartel case
The bloc's anti-trust officials have searched the offices of the premium carmaker this week in a probe investigating BMW and four other German automobile firms for suspected anti-competitive practices.
BMW confirmed on Friday that EU anti-trust regulators had searched its offices in Munich this week, after the European Commission had earlier in the day refused to name the company involved.
The EU, in its statement, said that the inspection related to the Commission concerns that several German car manufacturers may have violated EU antitrust rules that prohibit cartels and restrictive business practices.
"Inspections are a preliminary step in investigations of suspected anti-competitive practices. The fact that the Commission carries out inspections does not mean that the inspected companies are guilty of anti-competitive behavior, nor does it prejudge the outcome of the investigation itself," the Commission added.
A group of leading German carmakers including Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, BMW and Daimler stand accused of holding illicit meetings since the 1990s to coordinate vehicle technology, cost, suppliers, markets and strategy.
Daimler comes clean
In July, German media reported that the cartel's secret working groups hashed out and decided the most important details of the auto business, including the inadequate size of the AdBlue tanks that could not adequately feed their diesel cars' exhaust treatment. One of the aims of the cartel was to avoid "an arms race" of AdBlue tank sizes.
Meanwhile, the cartel case has turned into a race for who rats out whom first. Luxury carmaker Daimler on Friday confirmed it had applied for the status of principal witness in the EU probe.
Daimler chief financial officer (CFO) Bodo Uebber told journalists that the application "principally concerns coordination in breach of anti-trust legislation which was discussed in the press a while ago." As it was yet unclear whether the EU opened an official investigation into the carmaker, Daimler saw "no need presently to make financial provisions for any possible fines," Uebber added.
Rat-out-race
According to German media reports, Volkswagen had also attempted to apply for the principal witness status. But Daimler was first in coming clean with Germany's and Europe's cartel watchdogs, and it could avoid a multi-billion euro fine.
Volkswagen's voluntary declaration is dated July 4, 2016, but Daimler's came significantly earlier. Still, Volkswagen could get a rebate on the punishment.
BMW, one of the least suspicious in diesel emissions fixing, is kept holding the bag. BMW has said from the outset that there is nothing unusual in working with other carmakers on certain components if they "do not contribute to differentiation of the two brands and are therefore not relevant to competition."
According to EU law, the first co-operating co-conspirator in an anti-trust matter could walk away unpunished. The second one to break the silence would get a maximum 50 percent rebate, but only if "evidence with considerable value-add" will be delivered.
[/QUOTE]
Link: EU regulators raid auto giant BMW in German cartel case | Business | DW | 20.10.2017
Classic case of the prisoner's dilemma. There is more of an incentive for Daimler & VW to spill the beans on BMW based on the EU's anti trust law.
There's 2 likely scenarios here:
1) BMW was honest all along and did not use cheat devices - walks away SCOTT-Free while Daimler and VAG get fined exorbitantly.
2) BMW is lying and is proven guilty by evidence from Daimler & VAG. Daimler walks away with no fine for coming out first while VAG get their fines reduced by 50% for providing evidence that implicates BMW. BMW gets fined to hell and back.
Given the timing of these raids long after Daimler and VW have acknowledged their cheat devices, I suspect it could be the second scenario. The next few weeks are going to be really interesting.
EU regulators raid auto giant BMW in German cartel case
The bloc's anti-trust officials have searched the offices of the premium carmaker this week in a probe investigating BMW and four other German automobile firms for suspected anti-competitive practices.
BMW confirmed on Friday that EU anti-trust regulators had searched its offices in Munich this week, after the European Commission had earlier in the day refused to name the company involved.
The EU, in its statement, said that the inspection related to the Commission concerns that several German car manufacturers may have violated EU antitrust rules that prohibit cartels and restrictive business practices.
"Inspections are a preliminary step in investigations of suspected anti-competitive practices. The fact that the Commission carries out inspections does not mean that the inspected companies are guilty of anti-competitive behavior, nor does it prejudge the outcome of the investigation itself," the Commission added.
A group of leading German carmakers including Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, BMW and Daimler stand accused of holding illicit meetings since the 1990s to coordinate vehicle technology, cost, suppliers, markets and strategy.
Daimler comes clean
In July, German media reported that the cartel's secret working groups hashed out and decided the most important details of the auto business, including the inadequate size of the AdBlue tanks that could not adequately feed their diesel cars' exhaust treatment. One of the aims of the cartel was to avoid "an arms race" of AdBlue tank sizes.
Meanwhile, the cartel case has turned into a race for who rats out whom first. Luxury carmaker Daimler on Friday confirmed it had applied for the status of principal witness in the EU probe.
Daimler chief financial officer (CFO) Bodo Uebber told journalists that the application "principally concerns coordination in breach of anti-trust legislation which was discussed in the press a while ago." As it was yet unclear whether the EU opened an official investigation into the carmaker, Daimler saw "no need presently to make financial provisions for any possible fines," Uebber added.
Rat-out-race
According to German media reports, Volkswagen had also attempted to apply for the principal witness status. But Daimler was first in coming clean with Germany's and Europe's cartel watchdogs, and it could avoid a multi-billion euro fine.
Volkswagen's voluntary declaration is dated July 4, 2016, but Daimler's came significantly earlier. Still, Volkswagen could get a rebate on the punishment.
BMW, one of the least suspicious in diesel emissions fixing, is kept holding the bag. BMW has said from the outset that there is nothing unusual in working with other carmakers on certain components if they "do not contribute to differentiation of the two brands and are therefore not relevant to competition."
According to EU law, the first co-operating co-conspirator in an anti-trust matter could walk away unpunished. The second one to break the silence would get a maximum 50 percent rebate, but only if "evidence with considerable value-add" will be delivered.
[/QUOTE]
Link: EU regulators raid auto giant BMW in German cartel case | Business | DW | 20.10.2017
Classic case of the prisoner's dilemma. There is more of an incentive for Daimler & VW to spill the beans on BMW based on the EU's anti trust law.
There's 2 likely scenarios here:
1) BMW was honest all along and did not use cheat devices - walks away SCOTT-Free while Daimler and VAG get fined exorbitantly.
2) BMW is lying and is proven guilty by evidence from Daimler & VAG. Daimler walks away with no fine for coming out first while VAG get their fines reduced by 50% for providing evidence that implicates BMW. BMW gets fined to hell and back.
Given the timing of these raids long after Daimler and VW have acknowledged their cheat devices, I suspect it could be the second scenario. The next few weeks are going to be really interesting.
I think you're blurring the edges of what's going on here in your conclusion. BMW is not being accused of using a cheat device, and there's never been evidence that they do/did. Fines pertaining to producing and selling cheating vehicles would still stand for any involved. The fines daimler is trying to avoid are those for colluding to impose limits on the use of existing, legal, technology for emissions management.
CrunchSlaughtered
RPM Ruler
This has nothing to do with the cheating devices for diesel engines and is completely other story.Last 4 paragraphs are particularly interesting
EU regulators raid auto giant BMW in German cartel case
The bloc's anti-trust officials have searched the offices of the premium carmaker this week in a probe investigating BMW and four other German automobile firms for suspected anti-competitive practices.
BMW confirmed on Friday that EU anti-trust regulators had searched its offices in Munich this week, after the European Commission had earlier in the day refused to name the company involved.
The EU, in its statement, said that the inspection related to the Commission concerns that several German car manufacturers may have violated EU antitrust rules that prohibit cartels and restrictive business practices.
"Inspections are a preliminary step in investigations of suspected anti-competitive practices. The fact that the Commission carries out inspections does not mean that the inspected companies are guilty of anti-competitive behavior, nor does it prejudge the outcome of the investigation itself," the Commission added.
A group of leading German carmakers including Volkswagen, Porsche, Audi, BMW and Daimler stand accused of holding illicit meetings since the 1990s to coordinate vehicle technology, cost, suppliers, markets and strategy.
...
SCOTT27
Drift Dynamo
BMW are not involved in "DieselGate" as BMW approved of Government,EU and independent emission tests after the revelation of "DieselGate" on their engines and were found not to have been clandestinely "fixed" to pass strict emission tests. In fact BMW had a high trust rate with customers in regards to their diesel-run engines.
EnI
Piston Pioneer
Price-Fixing Inquiry Moves From BMW to Daimler and Volkswagen
By JAMES KANTER, NYT OCT. 23, 2017
BRUSSELS — European Union investigators searched the offices of the German automakers Daimler and Volkswagen on Monday — the second such action in recent days as part of an inquiry into allegations of illegal collusion by the country’s car giants.
Regulators are looking into whether Germany’s three major vehicle manufacturers — BMW, Daimler and Volkswagen — worked together to fix the prices of various vehicle equipment, including design aspects that help control emissions. The searches came as the companies face a backlash over their efforts to evade rules on diesel emissions.
The European Commission, the European Union’s executive arm, said in a brief statement that the “inspections” were aimed at enforcing rules that “prohibit cartels and restrictive business practices.” The commission did not name the companies involved, but Daimler and Volkswagen said their offices had been searched.
As in the enforcement action against BMW last week, the commission said the inspections, which also involved German antitrust officials, were a preliminary step in the investigation.
German carmakers have for years met routinely to discuss technical standards for components. But such discussions MIGHT be illegal IF, for example, the manufacturers agreed among themselves to limit competition in certain areas, such as the effectiveness of emissions systems.
The investigation into the possible collusion is one of several challenges facing Germany’s vehicle manufacturers as they grapple with the fallout from the diesel emissions scandal.
Two years ago, Volkswagen admitted that it had used software to illegally evade diesel emissions in the United States, and studies by multiple European governments have since found that BMW, Daimler and Volkswagen took advantage of European Union loopholes to weaken a car’s emissions controls outside of test environments.
Even as it faced new scrutiny in Europe, Volkswagen moved a step closer to putting the emissions scandal behind it in the United States, as the automaker received approval from federal and California regulators for its proposed repairs to reduce harmful emissions from 38,000 diesel-powered sport utility vehicles.
The approval, issued jointly on Friday by the Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resources Board and disclosed Monday, will spare Volkswagen from the expense of buying back the affected models.
A federal judge had approved a settlement requiring Volkswagen to spend about $1.2 billion to fix or buy back nearly 80,000 vehicles equipped with 3.0-liter diesel engines. The latest fix covers 2013-15 Audi Q7 models, as well as 2013-16 versions of the Porsche Cayenne and Volkswagen Toureg. The company did not give details about the fix — a software modification — or the potential effect on performance or mileage.
In addition, owners will receive roughly $7,000 to $16,000 each, depending on the vehicle’s year and model.
Volkswagen is awaiting approval for proposed repairs to passenger cars with the same engine. Last year, it reached a separate settlement requiring it to buy back 475,000 vehicles with 2.0-liter engines that emit unsafe levels of pollutants.
That settlement was part of about $25 billion in fines and other costs that Volkswagen has agreed to pay to address claims brought by consumers, regulators and states in connection with the company’s scheme to evade federal emissions rules with so-called defeat devices in diesel vehicles.
On the European investigation, Volkswagen confirmed that it was the subject of the inspections in Germany on Monday, saying the regulators had examined documents at its offices in Wolfsburg and at offices of its Audi subsidiary in Ingolstadt.
Daimler, whose brands include Mercedes-Benz, said that an “announced inspection” had taken place, and that the company was “cooperating fully.”
Last week, Daimler said it had offered to provide evidence about a suspected conspiracy to antitrust investigators in return for lower penalties. Last year, in connection with a cartel operated by truck manufacturers, the European Commission fined Daimler more than 1 billion euros, or $1.18 billion.
Source: Price-Fixing Inquiry Moves From BMW to Daimler and Volkswagen
By JAMES KANTER, NYT OCT. 23, 2017
BRUSSELS — European Union investigators searched the offices of the German automakers Daimler and Volkswagen on Monday — the second such action in recent days as part of an inquiry into allegations of illegal collusion by the country’s car giants.
Regulators are looking into whether Germany’s three major vehicle manufacturers — BMW, Daimler and Volkswagen — worked together to fix the prices of various vehicle equipment, including design aspects that help control emissions. The searches came as the companies face a backlash over their efforts to evade rules on diesel emissions.
The European Commission, the European Union’s executive arm, said in a brief statement that the “inspections” were aimed at enforcing rules that “prohibit cartels and restrictive business practices.” The commission did not name the companies involved, but Daimler and Volkswagen said their offices had been searched.
As in the enforcement action against BMW last week, the commission said the inspections, which also involved German antitrust officials, were a preliminary step in the investigation.
German carmakers have for years met routinely to discuss technical standards for components. But such discussions MIGHT be illegal IF, for example, the manufacturers agreed among themselves to limit competition in certain areas, such as the effectiveness of emissions systems.
The investigation into the possible collusion is one of several challenges facing Germany’s vehicle manufacturers as they grapple with the fallout from the diesel emissions scandal.
Two years ago, Volkswagen admitted that it had used software to illegally evade diesel emissions in the United States, and studies by multiple European governments have since found that BMW, Daimler and Volkswagen took advantage of European Union loopholes to weaken a car’s emissions controls outside of test environments.
Even as it faced new scrutiny in Europe, Volkswagen moved a step closer to putting the emissions scandal behind it in the United States, as the automaker received approval from federal and California regulators for its proposed repairs to reduce harmful emissions from 38,000 diesel-powered sport utility vehicles.
The approval, issued jointly on Friday by the Environmental Protection Agency and California Air Resources Board and disclosed Monday, will spare Volkswagen from the expense of buying back the affected models.
A federal judge had approved a settlement requiring Volkswagen to spend about $1.2 billion to fix or buy back nearly 80,000 vehicles equipped with 3.0-liter diesel engines. The latest fix covers 2013-15 Audi Q7 models, as well as 2013-16 versions of the Porsche Cayenne and Volkswagen Toureg. The company did not give details about the fix — a software modification — or the potential effect on performance or mileage.
In addition, owners will receive roughly $7,000 to $16,000 each, depending on the vehicle’s year and model.
Volkswagen is awaiting approval for proposed repairs to passenger cars with the same engine. Last year, it reached a separate settlement requiring it to buy back 475,000 vehicles with 2.0-liter engines that emit unsafe levels of pollutants.
That settlement was part of about $25 billion in fines and other costs that Volkswagen has agreed to pay to address claims brought by consumers, regulators and states in connection with the company’s scheme to evade federal emissions rules with so-called defeat devices in diesel vehicles.
On the European investigation, Volkswagen confirmed that it was the subject of the inspections in Germany on Monday, saying the regulators had examined documents at its offices in Wolfsburg and at offices of its Audi subsidiary in Ingolstadt.
Daimler, whose brands include Mercedes-Benz, said that an “announced inspection” had taken place, and that the company was “cooperating fully.”
Last week, Daimler said it had offered to provide evidence about a suspected conspiracy to antitrust investigators in return for lower penalties. Last year, in connection with a cartel operated by truck manufacturers, the European Commission fined Daimler more than 1 billion euros, or $1.18 billion.
Source: Price-Fixing Inquiry Moves From BMW to Daimler and Volkswagen
D
Deleted member 25
Lol you really think so ?
hovabongZA
Tire Trailblazer
Would poetic justice for Daimler to snitch as they have, but to still get fined....such Pu**ies!
Cashmere
RPM Ruler
South Korea to fine BMW, Mercedes, Porsche units on emission rules breach
SEOUL (Reuters) - South Korea plans to impose a combined fine of 70.3 billion won ($63.1 million) on units of automakers BMW AG, Mercedes-Benz and Porsche citing violation of emission rules, the environment ministry said on Thursday.Seoul Main Customs, part of the country’s customs agency, have also asked prosecutors to probe the three units for violation of customs law such as illegal imports, the ministry added.
The BMW unit will be fined 60.8 billion won for “falsifying” documents on emission test results and not obtaining approval for changes in emission-control components before their cars were sold, the Ministry of Environment said in a statement.
The Mercedes-Benz and Porsche units will be fined about 7.8 billion won and 1.7 billion won respectively for not obtaining approval for changes in emission-control components before cars were sold.Certificates of fuel efficiency will be canceled by mid-November and sales to be stopped for 28 BMW models, the ministry said. This measure will not affect cars that have already been sold, it added.
The BMW unit said it is “faithfully cooperating” with the government on their probe into certificate documentation errors, and will take necessary measures.
A few of the 200,000 cars that had been imported through customs between 2012-2017 had been declared for customs before approval was given or changes in components were reported, the Mercedez-Benz unit said.Internal processes will be strengthened to prevent such instances in future, it added.
A spokeswoman for the Porsche unit said the ministry’s measure will not have any impact on their business, as the fine addresses component changes between 2010 and 2015, and all cars being sold now are properly certified.
Link: South Korea says to fine BMW, Mercedes, Porsche units on emission rules breach
SEOUL (Reuters) - South Korea plans to impose a combined fine of 70.3 billion won ($63.1 million) on units of automakers BMW AG, Mercedes-Benz and Porsche citing violation of emission rules, the environment ministry said on Thursday.Seoul Main Customs, part of the country’s customs agency, have also asked prosecutors to probe the three units for violation of customs law such as illegal imports, the ministry added.
The BMW unit will be fined 60.8 billion won for “falsifying” documents on emission test results and not obtaining approval for changes in emission-control components before their cars were sold, the Ministry of Environment said in a statement.
The Mercedes-Benz and Porsche units will be fined about 7.8 billion won and 1.7 billion won respectively for not obtaining approval for changes in emission-control components before cars were sold.Certificates of fuel efficiency will be canceled by mid-November and sales to be stopped for 28 BMW models, the ministry said. This measure will not affect cars that have already been sold, it added.
The BMW unit said it is “faithfully cooperating” with the government on their probe into certificate documentation errors, and will take necessary measures.
A few of the 200,000 cars that had been imported through customs between 2012-2017 had been declared for customs before approval was given or changes in components were reported, the Mercedez-Benz unit said.Internal processes will be strengthened to prevent such instances in future, it added.
A spokeswoman for the Porsche unit said the ministry’s measure will not have any impact on their business, as the fine addresses component changes between 2010 and 2015, and all cars being sold now are properly certified.
Link: South Korea says to fine BMW, Mercedes, Porsche units on emission rules breach
hovabongZA
Tire Trailblazer
A fine of $60 Billion for BMW really ?is this true .....that would cripple them!
It's not 60 Billion Dollars, its 60 Billion South Korean Won.... So it's about 50 million Euro's... or 2.5% of their annual profit.
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