Hot! MB, BMW, VW, Audi & Porsche cartel exposed - report

[Mick Briesgau]

In further news:

Yesterdays' highly publicized "Diesel-Gipfel" ("Diesel Summit) held in Berlin featured various German car company CEOs' and automotive union representatives sitting opposite of German politicians and environmentalists.

From my (apparently quite distant) vantage point as a consumer and generally politically-interested citizen, I found myself recalling the lyrics of the refrain from that early 1970s' hit by Steelers' Wheel ("...Clowns to the left of me-Jokers to the right-Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.").

That's a good one Jimmy. Imagine your beautiful country gets a rot-rot-grün government after election in september? Than it will be Adios! german car industry in no time. Just like they killed the energy industry. A new "Wende" is coming...?

 

[Deleted member 1071]

In further news:

Yesterdays' highly publicized "Diesel-Gipfel" ("Diesel Summit) held in Berlin featured various German car company CEOs' and automotive union representatives sitting opposite of German politicians and environmentalists.

From my (apparently quite distant) vantage point as a consumer and generally politically-interested citizen, I found myself recalling the lyrics of the refrain from that early 1970s' hit by Steelers' Wheel ("...Clowns to the left of me-Jokers to the right-here

That's a good one Jimmy. Imagine your beautiful country gets a rot-rot-grün government after election in september? Than it will be Adios! german car industry in no time. Just like they killed the energy industry. A new "Wende" is coming...?

Mick, I reckon that the liklihood of a "Rot-Rot-Grün" coalition federal government is about as remote as the possibility of lava from an erupting Krakatoa covering the livingroom floor of my 3rd story Hamburg apartment. Martin Schulz appears to have gone to extremes in order to relegate himself to the rank of a bonafide non-entity. However, gloat I shall not as we Germans are presented with the choice between clinical dementia and syphalis. Hey, we gets' what we elect and it will usually come back to haunt us. And...who could have ever dreamt that BREXIT would become a reality ? Or the election of "Agent Orange" Humpty-Trumpty ??

Viewed as a collective of citizens, consumers, politicians, legislators, union representatives, environmental activists and decision-makers in industry and commerce, this country appears to embellish a desire for the self-infliction of pain and calamity with a fervency that is nothing less than mind-boggling. And often have the utter gall to wag a holier-than-thou reprimanding index finger at others. Acting the moral apostle with a raised, wagging index finger while wearing a technicolor dunce cap is a most unbecoming pose to strike.

End of rant.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

choice between clinical dementia and syphalis

Can't say anything else, than that you've put the current political choice perfectly in words.

this country appears to embellish a desire for the self-infliction of pain and calamity with a fervency that is nothing less than mind-boggling.

Yes, after many years of living in Germany, I still don't know why Germans are so self-destructing, kind of "suicidal" almost. Can't be only WWII...
End of OT

 

[Giannis]

Yesterdays' highly publicized "Diesel-Gipfel" ("Diesel Summit) held in Berlin featured various German car company CEOs' and automotive union representatives sitting opposite of German politicians and environmentalists.

I followed this a little, in an effort to see it as meaningful. It turned out to be just another case of "corporations don't care about the consumer. They care about their earnings". It's a joke, or maybe a PR event. Other than that, it served no purpose.

 

[EnI]

BMW Reassured Top Staff About Cartel Allegations: Sources

By REUTERS
AUGUST 4, 2017


FRANKFURT — Germany's BMW has told its top managers that regulators probing reports of collusion among German carmakers will find the allegations hard to justify, two sources familiar with the matter said.

German magazine Der Spiegel reported last month that BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, and Volkswagen may have used industry committee meetings to fix the size of tanks for AdBlue, a liquid used to treat nitrogen oxide in diesel emissions.

The article was discussed at a closed-door "OFK" BMW leadership meeting in Munich last week, two sources familiar with the meeting told Reuters.

OFK is an acronym to describe the company's top leaders, referred to in German as "Obere Fuehrungskraefte."

BMW's top managers expressed surprise at the impact on share prices and the level of media attention received by the Spiegel article, the sources said.


BMW's top lawyer said regulators investigating the allegation that carmakers had colluded to standardize the size of Adblue tanks would quickly realize that the tank sizes were all different, they said.

A survey of the biggest selling cars at Audi, BMW and Mercedes by Reuters shows that the vehicles do not have identically sized AdBlue tanks.

The AdBlue tank in the current BMW 3 series has a capacity of 18.4 liters, while the Audi A4's has 12 liters. Mercedes C-Class models can be fitted with tanks that are 25 liters or 8.5 liters in size. A variety of tank sizes is also evident in larger and smaller cars sold by BMW, Audi and Mercedes.

"As a result, there was no doomsday mood," a person familiar with the discussions said. BMW's lawyer however cautioned that an ongoing investigation may throw up further facts, this person said.

BMW said it rejected accusations that current diesel vehicles do not provide adequate exhaust gas treatment due to AdBlue tanks which are "too small".

By combining an AdBlue and an NOx-storage catalytic converter together with exhaust-gas recirculation systems, BMW cars are able to fulfil all legal emissions requirements, the company said.

INDUSTRY COMMITTEES

BMW has admitted that carmakers had sat down together to talk about AdBlue technology.

"From a BMW Group perspective, the objective of discussions with other manufacturers concerning AdBlue tanks was the installation of the required tanking infrastructure in Europe," the carmaker said.

German rival Daimler also defended the custom of manufacturers' meeting in industry committees on Friday.

"Daimler is convinced that an exchange of opinions on technical issues between various manufacturers in the automotive industry is useful and that it accelerates many innovations or actually makes them possible," the carmaker said in a statement to Reuters.

"With due consideration of legal restrictions, this also applies to cooperation and joint initiatives, especially in the areas of safety, environmental compatibility and comfort."

Daimler declined to comment on the allegations raised in the article, but voiced concern at public and media discussion of the issue, saying "generalized prejudgments and dubious legal assessments" were premature and damaging.


Daimler said it had a certified antitrust compliance program, which fulfilled the highest requirements and was continually being further developed.

"Insofar as violations of antitrust law might have occurred, as a matter of principle Daimler cooperates openly and transparently with the responsible authorities," Daimler added.

Carmakers have said they have not received formal notice of an infringement procedure. The European Commission said it was looking into the matter.

"The Commission and the Bundeskartellamt (German cartel office) have received information, which is currently being assessed under the leadership of the Commission as a matter of priority," it said.

"It is premature to speculate on any potential competition concerns raised by the specific information received or on possible further steps."

(Reporting by Edward Taylor in Frankfurt and Francesco Guarascio in Brussels; Editing by Susan Thomas and Adrian Croft)

 

[Cashmere]

Porsche seeks 200 million euro damages from Audi over dieselgate: Bild


BERLIN (Reuters) - Volkswagen’s (VOWG_p.DE) Porsche brand is seeking 200 million euros ($234 million) in damages from its luxury stablemate Audi over costs related to manipulated diesel engines, Bild newspaper reported on Friday.

Porsche’s management delivered the claim in written form to counterparts at Audi, the newspaper said without citing its source.

Audi (NSUG.DE) admitted in November 2015 that its 3.0 liter V6 diesel engines used in about 80,000 VW, Audi and Porsche models were fitted with an auxiliary device deemed illegal in the United States.

The German government earlier this year ordered a recall of Porsche’s Cayenne sport-utility vehicle (SUV) and prohibited registrations of the model’s diesel version.

Porsche wants compensation from Audi for the costs of the retrofits, legal counseling and customer measures, Bild said.

A spokesman for Porsche said VW group-internal issues were not meant for public discussion, without elaborating. Audi declined comment and referred inquiries to Porsche.

Porsche seeks 200 million euro damages from Audi over dieselgate: Bild

 

[SCOTT27]

Cats in a Sack....

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Porsche seeks 200 million euro damages from Audi over dieselgate: Bild


BERLIN (Reuters) - Volkswagen’s (VOWG_p.DE) Porsche brand is seeking 200 million euros ($234 million) in damages from its luxury stablemate Audi over costs related to manipulated diesel engines, Bild newspaper reported on Friday.

Porsche’s management delivered the claim in written form to counterparts at Audi, the newspaper said without citing its source.

Audi (NSUG.DE) admitted in November 2015 that its 3.0 liter V6 diesel engines used in about 80,000 VW, Audi and Porsche models were fitted with an auxiliary device deemed illegal in the United States.

The German government earlier this year ordered a recall of Porsche’s Cayenne sport-utility vehicle (SUV) and prohibited registrations of the model’s diesel version.

Porsche wants compensation from Audi for the costs of the retrofits, legal counseling and customer measures, Bild said.

A spokesman for Porsche said VW group-internal issues were not meant for public discussion, without elaborating. Audi declined comment and referred inquiries to Porsche.

Porsche seeks 200 million euro...

That’s absolutely hilarious. No wonder things just don’t seems right over at the VW group.

 

[hovabongZA]

Seems more like a ploy to help clean Porsche’s image of the dieselgate than it is to actually get the 200M. As if they knew absolutely nothing about the cheating devices , nice try though.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Seems more like a ploy to help clean Porsche’s image of the dieselgate than it is to actually get the 200M. As if they knew absolutely nothing about the cheating devices , nice try though.

But at the expense of Audi?

 

[EnI]

Porsche vs Audi is not the only internal feud going on within Volkswagen Group. It seems VW is taking on Skoda:

OCTOBER 4, 2017 / 1:06 PM / 3 DAYS AGO
Exclusive: VW seeks to curb competition from Skoda - sources

Andreas Cremer

BERLIN (Reuters) - Volkswagen managers and unions are seeking to curb competition from lower-cost stablemate Skoda, move some of its production to Germany and make the Czech brand pay more for shared technology, company sources told Reuters.

As VW struggles to cut jobs and spending at German factories and turn the page on dieselgate, Skoda’s superior car reviews and profitability have intensified the brands’ rivalry within the Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) empire.

VW now wants to reduce what it sees as Skoda’s unfair advantages - combining German technology with cheaper labour - and reaffirm the top-selling brand’s primacy ahead of a wave of new electric car launches, the sources said.

The tussle between VW and Skoda is reviving tensions at the heart of the Volkswagen group between profits and jobs, and between central control and autonomy for its 12 vehicle brands.

More: Exclusive: VW seeks to curb competition from Skoda - sources


This is completely bonkers.

 

[Deleted member 25]

Who owns what now in Vag ? Is Piech still pulling the strings or is the Porsche family ?

 

[hovabongZA]

But at the expense of Audi?

Yes,doesn’t seem like Audi and Porsche care much for each other.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

This is pure PR and the decision is made by the board of VAG. This shows only that something worse is coming and I suppose that they will leave one ship from the fleet to sink

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Porsche vs Audi is not the only internal feud going on within Volkswagen Group. It seems VW is taking on Skoda:

OCTOBER 4, 2017 / 1:06 PM / 3 DAYS AGO
Exclusive: VW seeks to curb competition from Skoda - sources

Andreas Cremer

BERLIN (Reuters) - Volkswagen managers and unions are seeking to curb competition from lower-cost stablemate Skoda, move some of its production to Germany and make the Czech brand pay more for shared technology, company sources told Reuters.

As VW struggles to cut jobs and spending at German factories and turn the page on dieselgate, Skoda’s superior car reviews and profitability have intensified the brands’ rivalry within the Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) empire.

VW now wants to reduce what it sees as Skoda’s unfair advantages - combining German technology with cheaper labour - and reaffirm the top-selling brand’s primacy ahead of a wave of new electric car launches, the sources said.

The tussle between VW and Skoda is reviving tensions at the heart of the Volkswagen group between profits and jobs, and between central control and autonomy for its 12 vehicle brands.

More: Exclusive: VW seeks to curb comp...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-v...-competition-from-skoda-sources-idUSKCN1C91EC
I’ve never understood how VW and Skoda could be so closely related and not detrimentally impact on VW. Still at this time the 8.7% return from Skoda is admirable and VW should be thankful for having this. But in the longer term something needs to be done. VW cannot move much further upmarket without treading on Audi’s toes. And Audi and Porsche have their own issues to deal with. The empire is showing signs of significant stress.

 

[Giannis]

EU competition officials raid BMW offices

BMW's headquarters were raided by European Union officials investigating an alleged cartel among German carmakers, as rival Daimler claimed whistleblower status in an effort to avoid fines.

EU staff had "conducted an inspection" at BMW's Munich offices this week, the premium carmaker said in a statement, adding that it is "assisting the European Commission in its work".

The EU's Brussels executive said its competition officials had swooped unannounced on "a carmaker in Germany" on Monday October 16 in the first confirmed raid related to allegations that several German automakers had engaged in an illegal cartel.

The competition watchdog said in July that it was investigating collusion among German carmakers.

This was in response to a tip-off after Der Spiegel magazine reported that Daimler, BMW, Volkswagen and its Audi and Porsche arms conspired to fix prices in diesel and other technologies over decades.

"The BMW Group wishes to make clear the distinction between potential violations of antitrust law on the one hand and illegal manipulation of exhaust gas treatment on the other," the company said.

"The BMW Group has not been accused of the latter," it added.

Brussels has yet to initiate formal competition proceedings against any of the carmakers.

However, the allegations have begun to spawn US lawsuits, adding to strains on an industry already struggling with the reputational fallout from widespread diesel emissions-test manipulation exposed in the wake of VW's dieselgate scandal.

Daimler said today it had "filed an application for immunity from fines with the European Commission some time ago", effectively claiming to have blown the whistle on what its chief financial officer Bodo Uebber described as "possible antitrust agreements" with rival manufacturers.

Daimler sees no need to set aside any funds for possible antitrust fines, Uebber added.

To gain immunity, the EU's antitrust website says, a company that participated in a cartel must be the first to inform the Commission of an undetected cartel by providing sufficient information to justify inspections.

The Commission has declined to identify the original source of the tip-off, saying this is to avoid compromising its investigation.

"Daimler is cooperating with the Commission under its leniency programme," an EU representative said today.

Volkswagen could also benefit from leniency after sharing information, according to earlier reports.

Even after an initial alert, other cartel participants can reduce EU fines - by up to 50% for the first to step forward with material evidence.

VW offices have not been subject to EU raids in relation to the cartel investigation, a spokesman for the Wolfsburg-based car giant said today, declining further comment.

Source: EU competition officials raid BMW offices

 

[Deleted member 25]

Daimler, what bunch of loosers, they are hiding their mediocre technology by playing the snitch.

 

[bum-man]

LOL! Their mediocre tech is the same as BMW's.

 

[BMW3GT]

Hahaha butthurt bmw fans being mad because their beloved company is now in trouble.
Automotive Industry is tough business.

 

[hovabongZA]

Hahaha butthurt bmw fans being mad because their beloved company is now in trouble.
Automotive Industry is tough business.

Generally speaking the first person to say butthurt is burtthurt.