Gearboxes: Manual or Automatic?
- Thread starter EnI
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- Giannis
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And yes. It will shift automatically for you if you want, and there is no clutch. That's as automatic as it can be
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And yes. It will shift automatically for you if you want, and there is no clutch. That's as automatic as it can be
You can
all you like, but you're wrong. In the UK for example, if you have an auto only license then you are not entitled to drive a DCT or SMG gearbox.Also, ENI in this case knows full well that when we were talking about 'auto' boxes we were meaning conventional torque convertor automatics.
NarutoRamen
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Wow, really? That's just BS.
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^ No it's not. A fundamental knowledge of how a manual gearbox operates is required to properly operate a DCT or SMG gearbox across its entire operating range.
A torque convertor auto gearbox operates in a different way to a geared transmission, for example:
- a torque convertor is easier to use and more tolerant on steep hill starts.
- most torque convertor 'boxes will upshift at maximum revs, a DCT/SMG box in manual mode won't.
- DCT/SMG boxes require the driver to anticipate a corner and shift down - like you would in a manual - in manual mode. This is not required in a pure auto.
It's correct, having a torque-convertor license alone does not equip such drivers with the necessary skills to safely operate all the features of an automated manual gearbox.
A torque convertor auto gearbox operates in a different way to a geared transmission, for example:
- a torque convertor is easier to use and more tolerant on steep hill starts.
- most torque convertor 'boxes will upshift at maximum revs, a DCT/SMG box in manual mode won't.
- DCT/SMG boxes require the driver to anticipate a corner and shift down - like you would in a manual - in manual mode. This is not required in a pure auto.
It's correct, having a torque-convertor license alone does not equip such drivers with the necessary skills to safely operate all the features of an automated manual gearbox.
coolraoul
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Also, ENI in this case knows full well that when we were talking about 'auto' boxes we were meaning conventional torque convertor automatics.
It's stupid! And is the client suposed to recognize the DCT with the looks of the gearlever, or is it mandatory for the dealer to be aware of the fact this model has an torque converter and this one a DSG?
I don't see the difference between entering your auto Golf IV and putting on D, and entering your DSG Golf V and outting in D. I eve'd say it"s harder to drive the auto, 'cause it rolls by itself as soon as the brakes are released.
Only in hard driving (shifting manually while cornering for instance) is there a real difference... But then the guy should either know how to drive, or see his licence retired.
100.000€ question: what about Mercedes' MCT? Is it an auto (no torque converter!!) or a DCT (planetary gears)?
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I'm not wrong. Just because you are not allowed by retarded UK rules to drive DCT if you only have a licence for automatics doesn't mean a DCT gearbox is a manual transmission. You can shift manually, and the box basicly is an automated manual, so the answer is yes AND no.
A car without a clutch is not a manual car. Simple as that.
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100.000€ question: what about Mercedes' MCT? Is it an auto (no torque converter!!) or a DCT (planetary gears)?
The D stands for Dual and the Mercedes doesn't have a dual clutch, so it's an auto
You can just buy me an M3, that would be fine...
coolraoul
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The D stands for Dual and the Mercedes doesn't have a dual clutch, so it's an auto
You can just buy me an M3, that would be fine...
It's not "dual" that counts here. The difference is: automated manual (need the whole driver's license) or automatic (no clutch, driveable with the auto license).
Whether it has one or two clutches is irrelevant. Here it seems the Britons consider the automated manual gearboxes (smart as well as Veyron) to be manual gearboxes and not automatics. Therefore you can't drive them with the "auto-only" license.
So the question is: the MCT has a clutch (like a manual) but also a planetary set of gears (like a slushbox)... Does it qualify as a manual or as an automatic?
Stupid law BTW. An automated manual is just like a slushbox IRL: no need to use the clutch.
PanterroR
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south
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Ok, this issue made me curious, so I looked at it in detail.
In short: Both in UK and in Germany you're entitled to drive double clutch gearboxes with auto only driving licences.
The U.K. Driving Licences Order 2007 defines the following:
Interpretation
2. In this Order—(b) “vehicle with automatic transmission” means a vehicle in which either—
(i) the driver is not provided with any means whereby he may vary the gear ratio between the engine and the road wheels independently of the accelerator and the brakes, or
(ii) he is provided with such means but they do not include a clutch pedal or lever which he may operate manually [...]
This means that DCT cars fit in the second category (ii) and are considered to be vehicles with automatic transmissions. So with a "B auto" licence you can also drive an M3 DCT for example.
In Europe, the auto only licence is a full licence with the restriction of Code 78. This code 78 stands for an entry in the driving licence and used to allow driving cars with automated transmissions only.
However, directive 2008/65/EG of 27 June 2008 redefined Code 78 as
"78. Valid only for vehicles without a clutch pedal"
DCT cars don't have a clutch pedal, so everybody with a licence containing the code 78 restriction is entitled to drive DCT/DSG cars.
German government has transformed this directive into the German licencing order early this year. I didn't look for the Swedish or French transformation acts, but suppose they're in effect by now either.
Hope this clarifies these things a bit.
Best regards,
south
south
Mr Robert
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Thanks South,
This fits very well with my definition of manual vs automatic gearboxes.
The Swedish rules simply points at the directive. The issue I was referring to was the fact that SMG cars are being registered as both as Manuals and as Automatics, seemingly random.
EnI
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In Croatia, with your DL, you can drive any car with any transmission you want...
That's because driving lessons are done in cars with manual gearbox exclusively, and so is the DL final test / drive.
Automatic is considered as easier to operate - so if you can drive manual, you are also able to drive an autmoaatic (or DCT etc).
