Gearboxes: Manual or Automatic?

[klier]

It's not "dual" that counts here. The difference is: automated manual (need the whole driver's license) or automatic (no clutch, driveable with the auto license).

Whether it has one or two clutches is irrelevant.

It's hardly irrelevant if DCT means Double Clutch Tranmission. If a car doesn't have a double clutch, it's no DCT. No Mecedes other than the SLS has it.

 

[braaf]

So, to sum this sidetrack up a bit; yes, DCT is automatic

As well as SMG, cos in plain and simple english the actaul cog swopping happens automatically.

 

[Deleted member 25]

Why just not doing as the rest of the world and doing driving license tests with manual only and then deiving whatever you want ?

 

[south]

Why just not doing as the rest of the world and doing driving license tests with manual only and then deiving whatever you want ?

That's usually the case and most common. However, it's still possible to have a licence limited to clutchless cars in case some can't or won't drive manual cars.


Best regards,
south

 

[Sunny]

Why just not doing as the rest of the world and doing driving license tests with manual only and then deiving whatever you want ?

Haha, it is the opposite here in the US. Yoy can take the test in automatic (or manual) and then drive whatever. Driving tests here are a joke (at least in California, it changes state to state, what they ask you to do).

 

[Deleted member 25]

They let people drive manuals even if they never touched it ? That must be funny to watch

 

[Zafiro]

They let people drive manuals even if they never touched it ? That must be funny to watch

Remember Britney Spears? She crashed a rented Ferrari because she never driven a manual car before.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Ok, this issue made me curious, so I looked at it in detail.

In short: Both in UK and in Germany you're entitled to drive double clutch gearboxes with auto only driving licences.

The U.K. Driving Licences Order 2007 defines the following:

Interpretation​

2. In this Order—

(b) “vehicle with automatic transmission” means a vehicle in which either—

​

(i) the driver is not provided with any means whereby he may vary the gear ratio between the engine and the road wheels independently of the accelerator and the brakes, or

​

(ii) he is provided with such means but they do not include a clutch pedal or lever which he may operate manually [...]

​

This means that DCT cars fit in the second category (ii) and are considered to be vehicles with automatic transmissions. So with a "B auto" licence you can also drive an M3 DCT for example.

Thanks for looking that up South (genuinely), but your interpretation of it is wrong. It's the section I've highlighted in bold which is the key, and the reason you are not allowed to drive a DCT or SMG with an auto only license.

It says a car is classed as an automatic gearbox ONLY if it doesn't have a clutch pedal OR no way of changing the gears with a lever which they may operate manually. Clearly the DCT and SMG have a lever which allows the driver to change gears manually.

It is a fact. You CANNOT drive a DCT or SMG gearbox on an auto only license in the UK.

(Sorry to keep this off topic but I thought it was important to point this out.)

 

[PanterroR]

That's because driving lessons are done in cars with manual gearbox exclusively, and so is the DL final test / drive.

Yep, and i support that - if you can't drive the stick....

 

[Mr Robert]

Thanks for looking that up South (genuinely), but your interpretation of it is wrong. It's the section I've highlighted in bold which is the key, and the reason you are not allowed to drive a DCT or SMG with an auto only license.

It says a car is classed as an automatic gearbox ONLY if it doesn't have a clutch pedal OR no way of changing the gears with a lever which they may operate manually. Clearly the DCT and SMG have a lever which allows the driver to change gears manually.

It is a fact. You CANNOT drive a DCT or SMG gearbox on an auto only license in the UK.

(Sorry to keep this off topic but I thought it was important to point this out.)

And in the rest of the EC, the lack of a clutch pedal makes it an automatic.

Furthermore, is there something in a DCT or SMG that funtions as a driver operated clutch?

 

[bilen]

...OR no way of changing the gears with a lever which they may operate manually. Clearly the DCT and SMG have a lever which allows the driver to change gears manually

Almost every automatic also lets you change gear with a lever. Put it in manual mode and use the gear level. No less manual than an DCT or SMG?

Is there something I don´t understand or that I am missing?

My definition would be that if you change the gear yourself either by linkage or wiring you are driving a manual. Otherwise automatic.

 

[Sunny]

Interesting debate about what is an automatic and what is not. As far as the driver skill/involvement is concerned, if it doesn't have manually actuated clutch, it is no different from an traditional automatic with tiptronic functions (which most modern automatics have).

 

[Mr Robert]

Interesting debate about what is an automatic and what is not. As far as the driver skill/involvement is concerned, if it doesn't have manually actuated clutch, it is no different from an traditional automatic with tiptronic functions (which most modern automatics have).

Exactly, as far as I know, the SMG, DSG, DCT all lack a manually operated clutch... hence, no manual. "click-a-button" gear change have been around for a good while and they are automatic as the driver does not have to operate the clutch to change gears... just like with all the above mentioned technologies.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Exactly, as far as I know, the SMG, DSG, DCT all lack a manually operated clutch... hence, no manual. "click-a-button" gear change have been around for a good while and they are automatic as the driver does not have to operate the clutch to change gears... just like with all the above mentioned technologies.

I'm not saying the UK rule isn't a silly rule. It's obviously just a one rule fits all solution.

But the rule is clear. Semi-autos like DCT/DSG/SMG are classed as manuals by the UK DVLA. The text that South quoted confirms this.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

As well as SMG, cos in plain and simple english the actaul cog swopping happens automatically.

Only if you choose that mode. What the UK DVLA is saying is that people cannot be trusted to drive it in the auto mode only, and it would be too hard to police, so the way around it is to create a rule that says if it has the ability to be driven in a manual way.....then it's a manual.

 

[Mr Robert]

I'm not saying the UK rule isn't a silly rule. It's obviously just a one rule fits all solution.

But the rule is clear. Semi-autos like DCT/DSG/SMG are classed as manuals by the UK DVLA. The text that South quoted confirms this.

If the rule is clear, Steptronics are also manuals.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

If the rule is clear, Steptronics are also manuals.

Well, according to the DVLA they're not. I know it seems stupid, but that's how it is. It's quite easy to find out. On your UK car registration documents it states whether it's an auto classified or manual classified vehicle.

It's quite a common question which arises, and many people mistakenly believe a DCT or DSG or SCT or SMG gearbox is an auto (from a legal point of view) but they are not.

What people need to understand now is that although some would class M DCT as an auto, it obviously doesn't have any of the drawbacks of a classic torque convertor auto, so it doesn't necessarily have to have the stigma attached with auto's being the antithesis of performance.

 

[Mr Robert]

Strange application in the UK then. Here they are clearly regarded as automatic gearboxes as you have no manual clutch. It is the operation of the manual clutch that is regarded as harder than pushing a button or doing nothing and, therefore, a car having a manual clutch can only be driven by people who have a full license.

I know that the registration may be very different. There are even instances where SMG cars have been registered as manuals here in Sweden.

Only if you choose that mode. What the UK DVLA is saying is that people cannot be trusted to drive it in the auto mode only, and it would be too hard to police, so the way around it is to create a rule that says if it has the ability to be driven in a manual way.....then it's a manual.

Exactly the same as a Steptronic.

 

[Mr Robert]

This is the place to have this kind of discussion.

 

[Centurion]

The great luxury of automatics is the ability to drive with one hand, and using the other one for eating grapes or a banana. I'm a bit of a Homer Simpson when I drive and enjoy the delicious company of food.