A6/S6/RS6 FIRST REVIEW: 2012 Audi A6

[footie]

Am I not correct in thinking Audi were really the first to pursue the benefits of aerodynamics.

 

[FC123]

Am I not correct in thinking Audi were really the first to pursue the benefits of aerodynamics.

In the sense, that the Audi 100, (200 and 5000) was the first major production car to do items such as flush windows and the like. Meaning a 136 hp engine was enough to do almost 200 km/h when a w123 with the same power would struggle to top 180. You are correct, but the history of aerodynamic car design dates much longer back.

HowStuffWorks "History of Aerodynamic Car Design"

 

[footie]

In the sense, that the Audi 100, (200 and 5000) was the first major production car to do items such as flush windows and the like. Meaning a 136 hp engine was enough to do almost 200 km/h when a w123 with the same power would struggle to top 180. You are correct, but the history of aerodynamic car design dates much longer back.

HowStuffWorks "History of Aerodynamic Car Design"

Everycar even 50 years ago had a certain amount of thought towards how it would crave through the air but what I mean was Audi seem to be the first to hunt out those final few areas to improve to the level we are at today.

P.S.
Off topic but still an interesting story. I recall being told this from a former enployee at Lotus, the late great Colin Chapman when designing either the original Elise or Elan attached the nose design onto his then Jaguar E-type and drove it at topspeed up and drop the motorway to see how it felt. No wind-tunnels back then.

 

[Human]

^
One thing I have always admired from Audi's is the very tight/thin shutlines or door and panel gaps

 

[FC123]

Everycar even 50 years ago had a certain amount of thought towards how it would crave through the air but what I mean was Audi seem to be the first to hunt out those final few areas to improve to the level we are at today.

Snip

No doubt the Audi 100 was a landmark design, but you could point to many earlier and say, what we have today originated here. You could even mention the Opel Omega, which was significantly more aerodynamic than the Audi 100.

 

[K-A]

Didn't realise the Merc was this low too, it appear that the 0.25-0.26 is the limit at the moment because I can't recall anything better than that for a production saloon.

Yeah, the W212 was a Saloon record when it was released. And the E-Coupe is like a .23-.24, which was (and I think still is) a production car worlds-best?

I guess .26-.28 range is where it's capping right now.

BMW F10

Aerodynamic efficiency has also taken a backward step. The outgoing car not only had a smaller frontal area but also a lower drag coefficient down to 0.27. The new car starts from 0.28 in the modest models, rising to 0.29 in 535i and 0.30 in 550i. This is a night and day difference from the latest Mercedes E-class, whose drag coefficient ranges from 0.26 to 0.28. Ridiculously, BMW has already applied an innovative automatic flaps to its nose intake, which draws the right amount of air to the radiator depending on cooling demand , thus keep aerodynamic drag to the minimum. It's probably time to head hunt the aerodynamicists from Stuttgart.

Seems like the Beemer engineers needs a lecture from Stuttgart, K-A

Lol. Indeed. I was just wondering if BMW had a method as to why they don't seem so obsessed with shaving off drag with each new model, like M-B, Audi, etc.?

^
One thing I have always admired from Audi's is the very tight/thin shutlines or door and panel gaps

Interesting. I never really payed attention to Audi's shutlines, but I will say that one thing about older M-B's that bothered me (or maybe charmed me, as they were so M-B) were the relatively wide shutlines. The W211 I had (using one example), had many. My W212 on the other hand, is incredibly tight, and laser-sharply aligned all throughout.

 

[FC123]

Yeah, the W212 was a Saloon record when it was released. And the E-Coupe is like a .23-.24, which was (and I think still is) a production car worlds-best?

I guess .26-.28 range is where it's capping right now.

The Honda Insight is 0.21, if I recall correctly.

I'd take the E though...

 

[K-A]

Damn! It starts looking really bad when they get too aero. Even the E-Coupe suffers a bit from such aero, as there's an awkwardness to the shape and proportions IMO.

When did the Insight come out? I remember during the E's press-kit run, the Designers were lauding it as the "most aerodynamic of any Production Car".

 

[footie]

The Honda Insight is 0.21, if I recall correctly.

I'd take the E though...

Was that for the original Insight with the covered in rear wheels or is that for the latest model?

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

As mentioned earlier, unit sales will be a most substantial measure of the success of these automobiles. BMWs' F10 5 series is set to become the most commercially successful 5 series BMW ever. In its' German home market, almost 5300 F10s' were sold in January (as compared to almost 3700 W212 E-Class M-Bs' and 2400 C6 A6s'). It was Germanys' 5th best selling car in January, following the VW Golf, VW Passat, VW Polo and Opel Astra).

One can see that the introduction of the F10 Touring has initiated a massive boost in 5-series sales. And the long-in-tooth C6 A6 continues to sell in relatively good numbers. A6 sales will increase very substantially when the new C7 model hits Audi showrooms. According to press reports, order flow for the C7 is absolutely overwhelming and Audi is becoming very concerned about its' capacity to deliver cars on a timely basis. And the Avant hasn't even been introduced yet. The novelty of the W212 M-B appears to be waning a bit. Perhaps one factor is the slow but inevitable demise of the classic sedan as the vehicle of choice for taxi fleets. It appears to me that more and more taxis are VW Tourans, M-B B-Class' and Skoda Octavia wagons.

Thanks Jimmy. Where do you get your German sales figures. JESMB used to have them years ago, but sadly not anymore. Has the 5 traditionally outsold the E in Germany?

I wonder how they're carving up global market share.

 

[Zafiro]

This is Top 10 list for Sweden. Cars sold during January 2011.

1. VW GOLF
2. VOLVO V70II
3. VOLVO V60
4. VW PASSAT
5. MERCEDES C-CLASS
6. RENAULT MEGANE
7. VOLVO V50
8. BMW 5-SERIES
9. VOLVO XC60
10. AUDI A4

New 5-series seem to do well in Sweden. Compare to January 2010 for previous 5-series, the sales have raised.
F10 year 2011 (January) = 497 cars sold
E60 year 2010 (January) = 199 cars sold

More than twice as many

 

[GTA45E]

The Audi is growing on me slowly.
The design just doesn`t have a natural "classic" designed by the hand feel to it like the E-Class and 5er. It`s very much a click and paste job.

It indeed is the best in the class. To these eyes, both A6 and F10 interior look one class above the E.

Thats because the 5er interior is a direct copy of it`s big brother the 7-Series. The new A6 also comes very close to the A8 in design but is not an exact copy of the A8. The new E-Class is distinctly for the E-Class. I wonder what the interiors of the 5er and A6 would look like as stand alone designs. (Opinions would probably change at this point...)

 

[K-A]

I didn't realize that Sunny was talking about interior. I understand more-so now what he means. I think especially in pics, the E's interior doesn't show as well, however, compared to the F10, I miight give the E a slight advantage IRL. As I think the E has such a great, and spacious/open/luxurious and solid environment, while the F10's is more "coming toward you" and a bit suffocating, yet at the same time, cozy and coddling. A close call here, and I can't really pick a favorite. Exterior wise is where I have my opinions more solidified.

Also, I agree with GTA. The other two are very much copies (especially the F10) of their bigger brothers, while the E is distinctly for the E, with family resemblance to the S here or there.

 

[Merc1]

All I know is that is the 5-Series is the car for me in this segment, the E and 5 switch off with each redesign it seems for me. Hated the previous 5, loved the W211. Oh well. Interior I would say Audi is the one, but they don't hold up as well and the exterior is still iffy until I see it in person.


M

 

[Deleted member 1071]

Thanks Jimmy. Where do you get your German sales figures. JESMB used to have them years ago, but sadly not anymore. Has the 5 traditionally outsold the E in Germany?

I wonder how they're carving up global market share.

Domestic German monthly automobile sales figures are published regularly in almost all German-language automotive periodicals. Unfortunately, it is rarely differentiated as to whether the figures stated refer to private customer or fleet sales. I álso believe that "new registrations" would be a more fitting term. This of course would also include automobiles that are used as dealer demonstrators.

Traditionally, the E-Class has been the strongest seller in its' segment here in Germany. The large taxi market is a major reason. But there are phases when M-Bs' competition will get the upper hand, especially in the event of new models being introduced. I remember the E39 5 series and C6 A6 going like hotcakes when they were introduced.

I may stand corrected on this, but I seem to recall having read that the top selling car in Europe in this segment is the A6. I also understand that the A6 basically rules this segment in China. This is apparently in stark contrast to the sales situation in the USA where A6 sales trail those of the E-Class and 5-series quite substantially.

 

[K-A]

It seems the Germans embrace conservative, and elegant styling more-so than Americans (makes sense).

If I'm not mistaken, the W211 outsold the E60 in Germany (?), while the E60 oddly outsold the W211 out here by a decent margin.

It also seems like the E-Class is holding a lead (considering the jumbled amount of models wearing the "E" name, VS the 5-Series, at least) over the F10 by a very small margin right now (numbers don't mean much yet, as the F10 is still spanking new, so numbers will be inflated). Considering the 5 has been the leader for a while in Sales, I wouldn't be surprised for the F10 to hold a lead over the E after a while. I would embrace it in fact, so not so many people would be driving my car.

In the U.S, I don't think this A6 will dethrone either the E or 5 just yet, but in Germany, China, and ROW in general, it looks like the A6 could take the sales crown quite quickly.

 

[footie]

In the U.S, I don't think this A6 will dethrone either the E or 5 just yet, but in Germany, China, and ROW in general, it looks like the A6 could take the sales crown quite quickly.

I have to agree with you here, in the US the Audi name isn't anywhere near strong enough to dethrone either the E or 5 but else where it's well established and since the previous A6 out sold the other worldwide in 2007, 2008 and 2009, only to be knocked off top spot with the introduction of both the new E and 5 I reckon it will be business as usual once the new A6 hits the showrooms.

 

[FC123]

Was that for the original Insight with the covered in rear wheels or is that for the latest model?

I must admit, that I find myself misreading data, the insight did not go below 0.25.

These are the lowest Cd for production cars:

0.212 Tatra T77A 1935 Tatra 77 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
0.195 General Motors EV1 1996 General Motors EV1 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[K-A]

Wow, the A6 outsold the E and 5 in "ROW" for those 3 years?! That is crazy! I never would have known. In that case, even with such strong M-B and BMW offerings, I don't see why the new A6 won't easily continue on that. This might be the "ROW"'s tendency to maybe like the fact that Audi doesn't have that "snob appeal" as the other two, perhaps? While in the U.S, bragging rights, and snob appeal are what our society is practically all about.

About the Drag Coeff, wow, I can't believe the best rated are that old! Maybe M-B was simply referring to current production cars, when they named the E the best available.

 

[Human]

Sorry, I just had to get it off my mind because I just do not 'feel' the A6's dash