EVO ECOTY 2011 Results
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Did they really F banned him ? If so, i think that they lost a lot of dignity and respect.
Ironic isn't it? They issue a rebuttal and pretty much said he made up all of that stuff...and then they go and exert the kind of power play he accused them of.
Great read, as usual. Really puts into balance the glowing praise quoted for McLaren by our resident MP4-12C fanatic. Nearly everything good balanced out by a "...but."
- Gearshift improved...but the car still feels like an unfinished product (hey, maybe it's like customer cars after all).
- Faster than the RS 4.0 on bumpy road...but is that the point? Ie, is there as much to enjoy when not trying for at-the-limit pace on a road (and when you realize it's the car's various electronic systems that's responsible for the speed, rather than your own involvement in the process)?
- Possibly the fastest car on the circuit...but depending on the driver, it could not pull past the GT3 RS 4.0. Chris Harris in the Aventador, with the weight of passenger, was able to nip past John Barker in the MP4-12C.
Interesting to note how where the C63 AMG sedan was before criticized for being too stiff and harsh, the C63 coupe feels too soft. Perhaps a better balance for road work?
This test seems to confirm earlier reports that the Aventador has lost some of the "fizz" and magic its supercar pedigree suggests. No doubt Lamborghini have purposefully kept plenty left on the table for later SV and other special editions.
As for Chris Harris's bias, yes if you took away his score, it would have changed the outcome of the test. But the outcome would also change if you deleted the scores of Matt Duff or Roger Green or Richard Meaden. So it's not like it hinged on his vote; there were plenty of others who loved the 4.0 enough to pick it 1st (by a ratio of 2:1 over the 12C).
Same for the 1M vs Cayman R. Removing Harris from the equation would not have secured a victory for the Cayman R. It would have been a tie, and the result would still be at odds with some other tests (Cayman ranked 1st by points).
Thanks again, Soup!
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It seems that this year they shortlisted the Top 5 and simply gave a write-up on why the others didn't make the cut. If you follow the flow of the article though, one could assume that the big, heavy M5 finished in 7th behind the Aventador.
The table is somewhat misleading because it doesn't tell the full story - car for car, judge for judge. For example, Metcalfe put the Aventador in first place (understandable given his affinity for expensive V12 supercars) and so the MP4-12C is actually in second place on his scoresheet.
What's very interesting is how someone like John Barker (JB) - a seasoned endurance racer - has a rather different order to Richard Meaden (RM), Chris Harris (CH) and Roger Green (RG) - all very similar scoresheets - who are also track racers.
All things considered, this is precisely why the EVO Car of the Year competition is the definitive opinion on the year's best performance cars. There's just such a broad range of considered, experienced and relevant motoring scribe opinion.
Wish that the LFA N'Ring edition was in the mix though!
The table is somewhat misleading because it doesn't tell the full story - car for car, judge for judge. For example, Metcalfe put the Aventador in first place (understandable given his affinity for expensive V12 supercars) and so the MP4-12C is actually in second place on his scoresheet.
What's very interesting is how someone like John Barker (JB) - a seasoned endurance racer - has a rather different order to Richard Meaden (RM), Chris Harris (CH) and Roger Green (RG) - all very similar scoresheets - who are also track racers.
All things considered, this is precisely why the EVO Car of the Year competition is the definitive opinion on the year's best performance cars. There's just such a broad range of considered, experienced and relevant motoring scribe opinion.
Wish that the LFA N'Ring edition was in the mix though!
My problem is the remarks they praised on the Cayman compared to the 1M and yet still gave it the nod, it's really head scratching stuff IMO.
EVO talking about the Cayman R said:
EVO talking about the Cayman R said:
EVO talking about the Cayman R said:
I seems to me that they put old-school unsophistication and classic rear-drive entertainment ahead which begs the question if the Ford Mustang Boss302 had been there might it have even won the whole event.
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My good man - you're trying too hard. The only one going round in circles here is you. More sweeping, unfounded statements like "old-school unsophistication" - who says a BMW M-engineered 1M Coupe is either old school or unsophisticated? This is a car with a highly sophisticated twin-turbo I6 engine, sophisticated multi-link rear axle (using M3 sophisticated bits) with sophisticated M-Diff and so on... [did you get the bit about sophistication?]
In yet another futile attempt to point out what it is about the 1M that many of them idiots at EVO like, let me try this.
- The world is still in a state of major financial crisis
- People need and want to spend less money but still get fair value for it
- The Porsche Cayman R is so good that it makes the boys at EVO smile wide
- The BMW 1M is not as good but still good enough to make the boys at EVO smile nearly as wide
- But then they ask "It costs how much?!? [they're considering the importance of money in the modern world]
- Now the BMW 1M makes them smile even wider
- With the BMW 1M they feel that they're getting more for less - though not as much as the Cayman R, which mind you, does cost more.
It's simple: anybody with common sense loves a bang-for-buck champion and that's what the 1M Coupé is.
I can't deny all these points you are making but argue the point that in life everything has deminished return whether that's buying speakers for your home or car, even when you decide to tune your car but I wouldn't for one minute claim that a Hamon Kardon in a 5 series was better than a Mark Levinson in a Lexus just because it kicked out better bass.
Dear Martin I simply elaborated on EVO's description for the 1M which was 'It's not the last word in sophistication' and the old school referral was to the manual gearbox, no multiple setting, etc, etc. Sure they said things like 'but it's just so bloody loveable' and 'a bubbling keg of driving fun; best BMW in yonks' but should being the best BMW in yonks elevate above the best Porsche this side of a GT3?
I think it's you that not getting the point I'm making, I fully understand why someone would love to own one, heck I was tempted myself, I mean I really do love it but when you are wanting to find the best driver's of the year should cost really come into the equation? My argument is that it shouldn't and nor should it be about how quick it goes around a track, what it really should be about is the quality and balance of it's controls and chassis, the knowledge of what is happening under you and the confidence it instills in it's driver to know where the limits are.
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I can't deny all these points you are making but argue the point that in life everything has deminished return whether that's buying speakers for your home or car, even when you decide to tune your car but I wouldn't for one minute claim that a Hamon Kardon in a 5 series was better than a Mark Levinson in a Lexus just because it kicked out better bass.
Dear Martin I simply elaborated on EVO's description for the 1M which was 'It's not the last word in sophistication' and the old school referral was to the manual gearbox, no multiple setting, etc, etc. Sure they said things like 'but it's just so bloody loveable' and 'a bubbling keg of driving fun; best BMW in yonks' but should being the best BMW in yonks elevate above the best Porsche this side of a GT3?
I think it's you that not getting the point I'm making, I fully understand why someone would love to own one, heck I was tempted myself, I mean I really do love it but when you are wanting to find the best driver's of the year should cost really come into the equation? My argument is that it shouldn't and nor should it be about how quick it goes around a track, what it really should be about is the quality and balance of it's controls and chassis, the knowledge of what is happening under you and the confidence it instills in it's driver to know where the limits are.
Come on now, isn't your response a bit too rich, Bob.....does it occur to you that old school controls and 'not the last word in sophistication' can be a good thing in a car? It adds to the character of the car, an creates an arguably equally memorable driving experience. It sounds like EVO really admires Cayman R but it is the 1M that they have fallen in love with. This is also the reason why the MP4-12C came 2nd, and why they picked the 458 over it as well.
Ask yourself if those words of admiration for the 1M are unwarranted. Then ask yourself why they don't describe the Cayman R with quite the same affection.Dear Martin I simply elaborated on EVO's description for the 1M which was 'It's not the last word in sophistication' and the old school referral was to the manual gearbox, no multiple setting, etc, etc. Sure they said things like 'but it's just so bloody loveable' and 'a bubbling keg of driving fun; best BMW in yonks' but should being the best BMW in yonks elevate above the best Porsche this side of a GT3?
While you're selectively quoting from the article, why don't you quote the rest that make the case for the 1M?:
"'It's not the last word in sophistication but it's just so bloody loveable.' There is a degree of vertical chop to the ride but you feel in charge, encouraged to push, and when you do it's classic rear-drive entertainment.
More tellingly, Catchpole (who ranked it first), Meaden and Harris all said that it's a car they'd love to own.
As we climb out of the valley, the 1M's twin-turbo straight-six is a stonker up here. It's almost utilitarian in the way it delivers its huge punch, yet it still manages to have what Barker describes as 'that classic BMW note - gritty yet aristocratic.'
...with the throttle set to Sport you have the perfect tool to keep the rear wheels spinning just as much as you want: once sideways it seems to stabilise sweetly."
Nobody specifically asked for more chassis competence from the 1M. A few asked for more power from the Cayman R. I don't think anyone mentioned its sound other than merely mentioning a metallic rasp. Nobody asked for the 1M to have an automated manual. Some wished for a manual in the Cayman R. It's their preference. While the experiences of technical supremacy and driving involvement overlap, they are not one and the same. For more of the Evo staff, the 1M has the better combination for more of the time.
Ford Mustang Boss 302? Who knows, it might score well. Based on other tests on UK and European roads, it doesn't quite have the polish (and is oversized or some). I can definitely see where the driver might feel he's not in charge. At least in such a comparison as Evo's it has a shot as a dark horse favorite, rather than seeing the podium filled purely with exotica few could ever afford.
If it were all down to mid-corner balance and handling precision, then none of these cars should stand a chance against superlightweights built to purpose (Elise/Exige, Ariel Atom, etc). Evo editors have made it clear before what they're after, and it's not just technical brilliance.
I mean, why aren't you in a huff over the McLaren? It displayed a more sophisticated chassis over the rough pavement than the GT3 RS 4.0. Yet it still lost out to the Porsche. You don't seem phased by the comments about the Elise's crude interior, its relative lack of grunt. Both of which should tell you that mere technical brilliance isn't the only thing on trial.
Am I not allowed to disagree with EVO's opinion or is their opinion the final word on the subject?
Why should I huff at the McLaren finishing second, I have not experience what so ever of that car and probably never will so how can I remark on whether it so have finished higher, but the fact that it continues to finish behind each car it put up against suggests that more than EVO don't see it worthy of the title.
As for those lightweights to referred to, I'll tell you a little story. Last year I got invited to Silverstone for a trackday corporate event as one of the guys pulled out and a friend offered me the position, anyway on offer was the Ferrari 360 which I drove many years earlier and a single 430 manual which got to drive, the other car on offer was an Exige S. On that day many were amazed by the Ferraris but not me, it was the Lotus with its wonderfully communicative steering and chassis that impressed me most so you are right I do disagree with EVO on this too but nowhere near as much as with the Cayman and the reason is that the Lotus is a rough diamond, too many elements let the side down but not the Porsche, everything about it is simply sublime.
Listen I'd be happy with either the Cayman or 1M as someone in their right mind would and I repeat that I serious thought long and hard over getting a 1M so it's not that I ain't a fan of the little Beemer it's just that in my opinion it's nowhere near as accomplished a performer as the Cayman R and when you are asked to chose the best new drivers car available this year then outright ability should in my opinion be paramount.
Why should I huff at the McLaren finishing second, I have not experience what so ever of that car and probably never will so how can I remark on whether it so have finished higher, but the fact that it continues to finish behind each car it put up against suggests that more than EVO don't see it worthy of the title.
As for those lightweights to referred to, I'll tell you a little story. Last year I got invited to Silverstone for a trackday corporate event as one of the guys pulled out and a friend offered me the position, anyway on offer was the Ferrari 360 which I drove many years earlier and a single 430 manual which got to drive, the other car on offer was an Exige S. On that day many were amazed by the Ferraris but not me, it was the Lotus with its wonderfully communicative steering and chassis that impressed me most so you are right I do disagree with EVO on this too but nowhere near as much as with the Cayman and the reason is that the Lotus is a rough diamond, too many elements let the side down but not the Porsche, everything about it is simply sublime.
Listen I'd be happy with either the Cayman or 1M as someone in their right mind would and I repeat that I serious thought long and hard over getting a 1M so it's not that I ain't a fan of the little Beemer it's just that in my opinion it's nowhere near as accomplished a performer as the Cayman R and when you are asked to chose the best new drivers car available this year then outright ability should in my opinion be paramount.
Obviously you are allowed to disagree. Nobody has said to the contrary. The question is: Can you understand why they might have picked the 1M? I, along with others here, have given some pretty good reasons which, I think, would not appear outrageous to anyone. If they are outrageous, you have not shown how they are so.
You should be in a huff about the McLaren for precisely the same reason you're in a huff about the 1M being picked over the Cayman R: the car which has more technical brilliance, seemingly manifested by superior control over rough pavement where the 4.0 driver has to back off, is not picked the winner.
Not sure how you disagree with Evo. They too rated the Lotus lower than the Cayman R, and for some of the same reasons ("rough", etc.).
It's becoming increasingly clear that your criteria for what constitutes the best driver's car does not match Evo's criteria for choosing their car of the year. I suppose Evo could just as easily rename their comparo as other UK and even US press have done, but they haven't. Along with the reasons listed by certain editors in past eCOTY, it should now be clear that outright ability isn't the only litmus test.
For example, some criteria listed from 2009:
"I am all at once both analytical road tester and over-excited schoolboy. I don't just want impressive, I want exhilarating. And the desire to drive it again and again..."
--Henry Catchpole
"The cars that really shine at eCOTY are those that punch above their status. A newly launched car will gain a few extra points over an updated model on my scorecard, but it's the car that leaves me aching to drive it again that wins."
--Harry Metcalfe
"...[aside from dynamic qualities] the best cars will also instil a burning desire for ownership, even if that means sticking one of my relatives on Ebay."
--Roger Green
"I look for simple things in road cars. I want the best blend of excitement and technical excellence. I want a car to devour any road but involve me in the process."
--Chris Harris
This is not about you being right and Evo being wrong, so much as it appears to be a mis-match between expectations. I'm not so sure the 1M has the mid-corner technical brilliance of even the Cayman S, so if you had to think long and hard about choosing a 1M over a non-R Cayman, then perhaps Evo's mindset isn't so drastically different from your own after all.
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Bob, as you have said, you have repeatedly thought long and hard about getting the 1M or the Cayman R, then have you ever thought of test driving both of them? As the previous owner of a BMW M3, Boxster and the current owner of a Cayenne, you should have pretty good contacts with your local dealers, no?
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Ask yourself why Autocar rated the same cars in a different order. Ask yourself why Auto Express rated them in yet another order. Ask yourself, who gives a damn.
